Tony and Angela getting together ruined the show

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Originally Posted by '80sSitcoms

Actually I think they did this very well on "The Nanny"; IMO the show stayed great to the end. Maybe if Tony and Angela had gotten together around season 4 or 5 (I think Fran and Max did around season 5?) it may have seemed more natural and "with the flow", who knows.

Ross and Rachel on Friends and Niles and Daphne on Frasier are probably the two most notable "will they, won't they" sitcom couples in the decade and a half following Who's the Boss?

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Somebody on another forum said that Who's the Boss? suffered by interminably dragging out Tony and Angela's "will they/won't they" relationship. This is probably why Shelley Long had the right idea to leave Cheers after five years before Sam and Diane's own "will they/won't they" relationship really outlived its shelf-life.

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Originally Posted by peteemory

Hi Novera:

Many thanks for your thoughtful reply.

I agree with your assessment of what was likely going-on with the show and how much investment (or lack thereof) that ABC had at the time as regards top-flight scripts for the show. What's more, given that the show is a sitcom, I believe it's safe to assume no one at the network was losing sleep over the brain-dead silliness of much of the final season, especially since it was a sinking ship ratings-wise at that point too. I always consider the great "Seinfeld" when I look at the concluding years of a sitcom...even that wonderful show had many dumb moments during the final season or two in which the leads essentially traded mean-spirited barbs with one another. And when a show reaches that point, I get frustrated and lose all interest. That said, "WTB" really had something special with the Angela-Tony relationship, so (for me) it's sad to see how it devolved.

I agree with the assessment that it wasn't Tony and Angela finally getting together that ruined the show per se or caused it to jump the shark. It was the bad material and direction that the producers and writers decided to take the show in the last two seasons.

The show I think started going wrong-headed when they had Sam skip her senior year in high school and go directly to college with her dad. This coincided with Alyssa Milano cutting her hair really short.

Also, I addressed this previously, there's the main characters with the possible exception of Angela, turning into unrecognizable, Flanderized shells of their former selves.

And then you had characters like Billy and later Sam's husband Hank, who the writers seemed to force and manipulate the audience into liking and accepting into the Bower-Micelli family.

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Originally Posted by Novera

First - you're very welcome!

I feel the same way about watching it end that way. Me and my family (Italian immigrants) loved the series and watched it together all the time, so it will always be associated with family memories to me. Everyone wanted them to get together while watching over the years and I remember being a bit sad that when it finally happened in 1991/92, no one in my family was really watching anymore.

The worst part was the way it ended on the last episode. When I watched it I thought of all the years and years I watched it with my family, the laughs we had etc. ... then it just sorta went to black and that was it. Spring '92 always felt like the true "end to the 80s" for me because that's when all the big 80s sitcoms ended (Cosby Show/Growing pains/Golden girls etc.)

One could make the argument that Roseanne was the true beginning of the end for the big '80s-style family sitcoms. The big sitcoms from say, Fall 1985 through Spring 1988, seemed to embody Reagan-era ideals: The Cosby Show, Family Ties, Who's the Boss?, Growing Pains.

When Roseanne came along in Fall 1988, it proved to be the complete opposite of those shows. Roseanne of course, became a monster hit from day one and all of the Reagan-era ideal family sitcoms coincidentally, began to decline over the next four seasons.

In Spring 1989, Family Ties ends and Growing Pains is no longer a Top 10 show. And then in Spring 1990, Who's the Boss? is no longer a Top 10 show and Roseanne ties The Cosby Show for #1. Come Spring 1991, The Cosby Show drops from #1 to #5. Finally in Spring 1992, The Cosby Show, Who's the Boss?, and Growing Pains all end.

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Originally Posted by Novera

I used to think the same thing. That their getting together killed the show, by killing off the "will they or wont they" tension of the series.

But in hindsight I agree with you, it was the material itself that killed it. The exaggerated situations/funny gags would've been better in smaller doses, but they were constant. This made the show seem silly, with actual slapstick gags happening in each episode. I rewatched the series recently and couldn't believe they actually had Tony's ass break through the ceiling followed by the ubiquitous "I've fallen and I can't get up!" line. This used to be a show about a poor housekepper struggling to pay for things so his daughter could fit in with her new (wealthy) friends!

I wonder what would've happened if they had written it like a season 3 or 4 era writing style. They get together and there are realistic story lines, like Jonathan/Samantha struggling with them being married (should I call her mom, should I call him dad). How their extended families react, what the neighbours say, etc.

I think they were stuck at this point, the shows ratings were waning and they must've thought "ok lets make this over the top fun to keep people engaged". The problem is, even if they wrote it realistically, the show had been on for so long people just lost interest. The fire/passion of "OMG will they actually hook up?" had turned into two older single people who finally settle down... not much spice at that point.

As others have pointed out though, the last couple of seasons felt really contrived and frustrating with how they tried to keep Tony and Angela apart and have them with other people (Kathleen and Andy respectively).

[Krista2882]

Originally Posted by peteemory

Their getting together in Season 8 didn't ruin the show. The horrific scripts ruined the show (the scheduling switch from Tuesdays to Saturdays destroyed the show's heretofore ratings). They (Tony & Judith) had tremendous screen chemistry and it was almost completely destroyed by having the Tony character become a complete jerk by the final season. Happens to lots of sitcoms near the end of their run: often the main character(s) just become dumber versions of themselves. Sad.

I was about to say this exact thing. While it did take WAY too long for them to get together- like, it was super unrealistic- I'm glad that they did. But the thing that ruined the last two seasons was the writing. Tony and Angela still had incredible chemistry and they could have done some really interesting storylines about transitioning from friends to a couple. They also could have just done regular storylines where Tony and Angela were together and it was like it was when they were friends just more intimate. But the relationship storylines they did do were so obnoxious and were out of character for them. Tony became really inconsiderate and the writers turned him into almost a caricature of himself. He's kind of insufferable in season 8. And the way they decided to end the series was very strange- why not do a fast-forward and at least show them getting married? They made it so that you assume that they are back together, but they don't make it clear whether or not they actually get married.

And yeah, you're right- some sitcoms for whatever reason change one or more of their lead characters into someone unlikeable. My top favorite sitcom is Mad About You, but I can't watch the last two seasons because Jamie became so unlikable. She became so inconsiderate and sometimes plain b*tchy.