Kilgore Guidance? - Sitcoms Online Message Boards

Artfiore1 · 08-06-2003, 03:53 AM

Hi everybody,

Is there anyone out there who has read David M. Kilgore's "Dick Van Dyke Show" Episode Guide and can answer some questions for me?

First and foremost, who is this guy to tell us which episodes are the "very best", which are just "good", which are "not so good" and which are "unworthy of association with the rest of the series"?

He seems to have a particular dislike for the episode entitled "Draw Me A Pear", calling it the "third worst episode of the series." Now, to me, this implies that there are two other episodes which he feels are worse than this one. Aren't I right about that? (Who asked him, anyway?) Yet, there is only one other episode to which he gives a single star ("unworthy of association with the rest of the series") rating -- "You Ought To Be In Pictures." He calls that one the worst episode of the series. Something doesn't add up somewhere.

More than once, he states that the plot of "Draw Me A Pear" is the same as that of the episode entitled "Teacher's Petrie." He says that of the two, "Teacher's Petrie" is "only slightly better", giving it a two star ("not so good") rating, as opposed to the one star ("unworthy of association with the rest of the series"). Personally, I don't see anything wrong with that show. And, while in "Draw Me A Pear", Laura was jealous of the art instructor because the instructor had the hots for Rob, in "Teacher's Petrie", Rob was suspicious of Laura's writing teacher for a completely different reason. He thought the guy was after a favor from Rob (NOT the same plot).

It's bad enough to present reviews that nobody ever asked for. But, it must be awfully embarrassing to let it be known publicly that the shows you're critiquing, you haven't *really* watched. His description of the episode entitled "Stacey Petrie Part 2" alone is a clear indication that Mr. Kilgore should watch these shows again -- perhaps this time with the sound ON!

Or better yet, maybe he should just keep his opinions to himself.

Lolac · 08-06-2003, 01:35 PM

Wow, Artfiore1. Who is this David M. Kilgore? What are his credentials? Why would he be writing a book about TDVDS anyway? Just wondering. I have to agree with him that the worst episode of the series was "You Ought to Be in Pictures." That and "The Gunslinger" are my 2 least favorites. The others that you (or he) mentioned, I do like. I love "Draw Me a Pear." I love the scene where he is in her studio and she hits on him when Laura is standing outside the door. I think it is so funny!
Are there any official books out there about TDVDS? There is a book out about M*A*S*H called "The Complete MASH" that is supposed to be the definitive work about that show. Is there anything like that for TDVDS? I'd be interested in reading something like that!

Lolac

countin' down until October 21!

76 more days!

Kristen · 08-06-2003, 02:27 PM

I found the Kilgore guide that Artfiore is talking about. Here's the link: http://www.geocities.com/Hollywood/8163/dvd.htm To answer Lolac's question about books about TDVDS, there are a couple. There's "The Official Dick Van Dyke Show Book" and "The Dick Van Dyke Show: Anatomy of a Classic". I think one has a forward by Dick, the other has one by Carl. I'm sure you could find them both at Amazon. Hope that helps!

Kristen

Artfiore1 · 08-06-2003, 04:22 PM

Lolac,
Sorry for not pointing out that it was a web page, not a book.
In fairness, there *are* several good things about the Kilgore episode guide. It contains the title and the number of each episode . . . and at least an idea of what each one is about.

Additionally, he points out inaccuracies in them such as . . .

which episodes indicate that Mel was married to Alan's sister, and
which ones imply that Alan was married to Mel's sister.

in which episodes Rob's army buddy's name was Sol and in which ones his name was Sam.

which episodes say that Laura's maiden name was Meehan, and which ones say it was Meeker.

and a contradiction in what Alan's wife's name was.

Later,
Art

Lolac · 08-06-2003, 07:21 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Artfiore1
Lolac,
Sorry for not pointing out that it was a web page, not a book.
Art

No problem, Art. I figured it out when I clicked on Kristen's link. I did enjoy his interesting little notes about certain episodes. I did not get to read all of it. I'll go back to it tonight after my kids go to bed!!!

Lolac

Lolac · 08-06-2003, 08:10 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Artfiore1
Hi everybody,

He seems to have a particular dislike for the episode entitled "Draw Me A Pear", calling it the "third worst episode of the series." Now, to me, this implies that there are two other episodes which he feels are worse than this one. Aren't I right about that? (Who asked him, anyway?) Yet, there is only one other episode to which he gives a single star ("unworthy of association with the rest of the series") rating -- "You Ought To Be In Pictures." He calls that one the worst episode of the series. Something doesn't add up somewhere.

Art, Kilgore says that episode 99 "A Vigilante Ripped My Sport Coat" is the second worst episode. That makes "Draw Me a Pear" the 3rd worst, "Vigilante" the second worst and "Pictures" the worst. It adds up, but I don't agree with his assessment of several episodes. Yet, as you said, he does provide some interesting information.

Lolac

Artfiore1 · 08-06-2003, 09:15 PM

Lolac,
You're right. Sorry about that. Evidently, I missed something whien I read through the thing.

Later,
Art

dmkilgore · 11-06-2009, 01:49 PM

Hey, everybody. This is David M. Kilgore. I'm the guy who compiled the Dick Van Dyke Show Episode Guide.

I am sorry that Artfiore1 took exception to my rating system. Although the factual information in the episode guide is correct to the best of my knowledge, I admit that the assignment of best-and-worst ratings is purely my own personal opinion. I have no official credentials. I'm just a long-time admirer of the show. Many years ago, I catalogued the series one episode at a time off of Nick at Nite. When it was finished, I posted it on Geocities to share it with the general public. Since Geocities has now closed, the site has been moved to the following address:

http://www.dmkilgore.webs.com/dvd.htm

As for whether "Draw Me A Pear" and "Teacher's Petrie" are the same basic storyline, it depends on whose perspective you take. One is about Rob taking an art class and getting hit on by the female teacher. The other is about Laura taking a writing class and getting hit on by the male teacher. If you look at it that way, my analysis is correct. If you look at it from Artfiore's point of view, Laura was legitimately jealous and Rob was merely clueless. So we're both right.

And "Stacey Petrie Part 2" was exactly as I described it. Take the bug out of your butt already. :-) If you still have a problem with it, how about this for an alternative: "The girl Stacey plans to marry thinks she's engaged to somebody else." That takes the zing out of it, but at least it's accurate.

Although I consider "The Dick Van Dyke Show" to be my all-time favorite, I also liked "M*A*S*H", "Barney Miller", the original "Bob Newhart Show", "Taxi" and "Soap." For anyone who might be interested, my episode guide of "Soap" can be found at:

http://www.dmkilgore.webs.com/soap.htm

Thanks, and keep watching the stars.

JudgeGarth · 11-06-2009, 07:57 PM

OMG. 'A Vigilante Ripped My Sports Coat' is my favorite!

Marvo301 · 11-06-2009, 08:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kristen

I found the Kilgore guide that Artfiore is talking about. Here's the link: http://www.geocities.com/Hollywood/8163/dvd.htm To answer Lolac's question about books about TDVDS, there are a couple. There's "The Official Dick Van Dyke Show Book" and "The Dick Van Dyke Show: Anatomy of a Classic". I think one has a forward by Dick, the other has one by Carl. I'm sure you could find them both at Amazon. Hope that helps!

Kristen

"The Official Dick Van Dyke Show Book" was written by Vince Waldron and includes an intro. by Dick Van Dyke. It contains an exhaustive history of both the creation of and the making of this classic show. It also contains an episode guide. It's such a fascinating read that I read it twice!

dmkilgore · 11-06-2009, 10:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JudgeGarth

OMG. 'A Vigilante Ripped My Sports Coat' is my favorite!

That's cool. I'm glad SOMEBODY liked it. :-)

Artfiore1 · 11-07-2009, 05:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dmkilgore

Hey, everybody. This is David M. Kilgore. I'm the guy who compiled the Dick Van Dyke Show Episode Guide.

I am sorry that Artfiore1 took exception to my rating system. Although the factual information in the episode guide is correct to the best of my knowledge, I admit that the assignment of best-and-worst ratings is purely my own personal opinion. I have no official credentials. I'm just a long-time admirer of the show. Many years ago, I catalogued the series one episode at a time off of Nick at Nite. When it was finished, I posted it on Geocities to share it with the general public. Since Geocities has now closed, the site has been moved to the following address:

http://www.dmkilgore.webs.com/dvd.htm

As for whether "Draw Me A Pear" and "Teacher's Petrie" are the same basic storyline, it depends on whose perspective you take. One is about Rob taking an art class and getting hit on by the female teacher. The other is about Laura taking a writing class and getting hit on by the male teacher. If you look at it that way, my analysis is correct. If you look at it from Artfiore's point of view, Laura was legitimately jealous and Rob was merely clueless. So we're both right.

And "Stacey Petrie Part 2" was exactly as I described it. Take the bug out of your butt already. :-) If you still have a problem with it, how about this for an alternative: "The girl Stacey plans to marry thinks she's engaged to somebody else." That takes the zing out of it, but at least it's accurate.

Although I consider "The Dick Van Dyke Show" to be my all-tine favorite, I also liked "M*A*S*H", "Barney Miller", the original "Bob Newhart Show", "Taxi" and "Soap." For anyone who might be interested, my episode guide of "Soap" can be found at:

http://www.dmkilgore.webs.com/soap.htm

Thanks, and keep watching the stars.

dmkilgore,
An unfortunate aspect of these message boards is that anything you post at four in the morning during a sleepless night can come back to haunt you long after you've forgotten what drove you to posting it and the mood is long gone . . . and often does -- in this case more than six years after. I frequently am notified of additions to discussions I don't even remember ever participating in.

The thing is -- I have always had a natural dislike for critics. I think they are the lowest form of human life, and I regard them as worthless and a completely unnecessary part of our society. And while I really liked your "Dick Van Dyke Show" Episode Guide, found it quite interesting and informative and used to it often, I simply did not need to have the episodes rated for me, especially in a negative manner. I am sorry if my original post seemed harsh, and I'm also sorry for plastering your name in an internet message board subject line. Just for the record, though, I cannot think of a single "Dick Van Dyke Show" episode which I would call "unworthy of association with the rest of the series."

Incidentally, I like your second synopsis for "Stacy Petrie Part 2" much more than the first. It may be lacking, as you say, the "zing," but at least it says to me, "I watched this show." -- your original one did not.

Later,
Art

dmkilgore · 11-07-2009, 06:16 PM

<An unfortunate aspect of these message boards is that anything you post at four in the morning during a sleepless night can come back to haunt you long after you've forgotten what drove you to posting it and the mood is long gone...>

Understood. I know that phenomenon quite well.

<The thing is -- I have always had a natural dislike for critics.>

I can understand that, too. I'm sorry if my opinions came off a bit snotty in places. I'm thinking of editing the guide, snipping out all traces of personal bias and just leaving in the facts. Of course, that might be a little dull...

<...and I'm also sorry for plastering your name in an internet message board subject line.>

If you hadn't, I would never have seen it at all. When Geocities shut down, I asked Yahoo and Google to post the new addresses for my various sites, and I was just checking to see if they'd kicked in yet. Then I found your post - and was a little taken aback by it at first, but then I got over it. Not a problem. Lots of people get irritated with me when I say what I'm thinking on the Internet. :-)

<Just for the record, though, I cannot think of a single "Dick Van Dyke Show" episode which I would call "unworthy of association with the rest of the series.">

Okay, maybe putting it that way was a bit too harsh. The document was originally intended for my own research and amusement, and I do have a caustic sense of humor sometimes.

If you'll check the episodes to which I gave four stars, and compare them to the ones that only got one, you might get some insight into what I was thinking at the time. I always admired the show's combination of fun stories and well-developed characters, and I may have taken it too personally when that balance didn't quite work for me. On the other hand, three weaker episodes in five years is not a bad average. I certainly never intended to make it sound like I didn't like the series. If anything, it was because other episodes were so terrific that I felt let down by those few.

Anyway, glad to have straightened everything out, and nice to meet you.

*** New info ***

In response to Artfiore's suggestions, I have now edited all the personal opinions out of the DVD Episode Guide and left in just the factual info. The quality ratings have been removed, and so have the snide criticisms. The new version of the site is now online at:

www.dmkilgore.webs.com/dvd.htm

or, if you'd like to see what the page USED to look like, click on this link instead:

www.dmkilgore.webs.com/olddvdpage.htm

1960'sTVfan · 11-12-2009, 10:55 AM

I have seen You Ought To Be In Pictures. It's certainly not a great episode, but I wouldn't say it's the worst episode of the series. The episode is notable for the appearance of Michael Constantine as a guest star. He would go on a few years later to a starring role in Room 222.

08-06-2003, 03:53 AM	#1
Artfiore1 Member Frequent Poster Join Date: Mar 28, 2001 Location: East Brunswick, NJ, USA Posts: 457	Kilgore Guidance? Hi everybody, Is there anyone out there who has read David M. Kilgore's "Dick Van Dyke Show" Episode Guide and can answer some questions for me? First and foremost, who is this guy to tell us which episodes are the "very best", which are just "good", which are "not so good" and which are "unworthy of association with the rest of the series"? He seems to have a particular dislike for the episode entitled "Draw Me A Pear", calling it the "third worst episode of the series." Now, to me, this implies that there are two other episodes which he feels are worse than this one. Aren't I right about that? (Who asked him, anyway?) Yet, there is only one other episode to which he gives a single star ("unworthy of association with the rest of the series") rating -- "You Ought To Be In Pictures." He calls that one the worst episode of the series. Something doesn't add up somewhere. More than once, he states that the plot of "Draw Me A Pear" is the same as that of the episode entitled "Teacher's Petrie." He says that of the two, "Teacher's Petrie" is "only slightly better", giving it a two star ("not so good") rating, as opposed to the one star ("unworthy of association with the rest of the series"). Personally, I don't see anything wrong with that show. And, while in "Draw Me A Pear", Laura was jealous of the art instructor because the instructor had the hots for Rob, in "Teacher's Petrie", Rob was suspicious of Laura's writing teacher for a completely different reason. He thought the guy was after a favor from Rob (NOT the same plot). It's bad enough to present reviews that nobody ever asked for. But, it must be awfully embarrassing to let it be known publicly that the shows you're critiquing, you haven't really watched. His description of the episode entitled "Stacey Petrie Part 2" alone is a clear indication that Mr. Kilgore should watch these shows again -- perhaps this time with the sound ON! Or better yet, maybe he should just keep his opinions to himself.
	__________________ Later, Art Maj. Frank Burns: "Why does everyone take an instant dislike to me?" Capt. "Trapper John" McIntyre: "It saves time, Frank." * * * Roger Phillips: "Your behavior has been crass, overbearing and repugnant!" Arthur "Fonzie" Fonzarelli: "When I get to a dictiionary, you're in trouble." * * * Theodore "Beaver" Cleaver: "How did you know all that, Wally?" Wally Cleaver: "Beav, just 'cause I'm your brother, that doesn't make me automatically stupid." * * * Jed Clampett: "What that boy may need is some more schoolin'." Daisy Mae Moses "Granny" Clampett: "More schoolin'??? He's done been all the way through the sixth grade! How much further can he go?" * * * Maj Charles Emerson Winchester III: "What IS that odor?" Cpl. Walter "Radar" O'Reilly: "North wind -- cesspool. East wind -- latrine." Maj Charles Emerson Winchester III: "But, the wind is from the south." Cpl. Walter "Radar" O'Reilly: "Oh, that's our kitchen." * * * Maj. Frank Burns: "What are you doing in here?" Cpl. Walter "Radar" O'Reilly: "I'm looking for Major Houlihan." Maj. Frank Burns: "Any mindless baboon can see that she's not here . . . including me!" Last edited by Artfiore1; 08-06-2003 at 03:37 PM.

08-06-2003, 02:27 PM	#3
Kristen Member Forum 4000 Club Member Join Date: Jul 17, 2000 Location: New York, USA Posts: 4,042	I found the Kilgore guide that Artfiore is talking about. Here's the link: http://www.geocities.com/Hollywood/8163/dvd.htm To answer Lolac's question about books about TDVDS, there are a couple. There's "The Official Dick Van Dyke Show Book" and "The Dick Van Dyke Show: Anatomy of a Classic". I think one has a forward by Dick, the other has one by Carl. I'm sure you could find them both at Amazon. Hope that helps! Kristen
	__________________ Twitter \| Facebook \| Swagbucks \| Fanfiction Avatar Credit: Leigh Ann

11-06-2009, 01:49 PM	#8
dmkilgore Member Forum Hawk Join Date: Nov 06, 2009 Location: Maryland Posts: 3	From the talking end of the horse Hey, everybody. This is David M. Kilgore. I'm the guy who compiled the Dick Van Dyke Show Episode Guide. I am sorry that Artfiore1 took exception to my rating system. Although the factual information in the episode guide is correct to the best of my knowledge, I admit that the assignment of best-and-worst ratings is purely my own personal opinion. I have no official credentials. I'm just a long-time admirer of the show. Many years ago, I catalogued the series one episode at a time off of Nick at Nite. When it was finished, I posted it on Geocities to share it with the general public. Since Geocities has now closed, the site has been moved to the following address: http://www.dmkilgore.webs.com/dvd.htm As for whether "Draw Me A Pear" and "Teacher's Petrie" are the same basic storyline, it depends on whose perspective you take. One is about Rob taking an art class and getting hit on by the female teacher. The other is about Laura taking a writing class and getting hit on by the male teacher. If you look at it that way, my analysis is correct. If you look at it from Artfiore's point of view, Laura was legitimately jealous and Rob was merely clueless. So we're both right. And "Stacey Petrie Part 2" was exactly as I described it. Take the bug out of your butt already. :-) If you still have a problem with it, how about this for an alternative: "The girl Stacey plans to marry thinks she's engaged to somebody else." That takes the zing out of it, but at least it's accurate. Although I consider "The Dick Van Dyke Show" to be my all-time favorite, I also liked "MAS*H", "Barney Miller", the original "Bob Newhart Show", "Taxi" and "Soap." For anyone who might be interested, my episode guide of "Soap" can be found at: http://www.dmkilgore.webs.com/soap.htm Thanks, and keep watching the stars.
	Last edited by dmkilgore; 11-16-2009 at 01:00 PM.

11-07-2009, 06:16 PM	#13
dmkilgore Member Forum Hawk Join Date: Nov 06, 2009 Location: Maryland Posts: 3	<An unfortunate aspect of these message boards is that anything you post at four in the morning during a sleepless night can come back to haunt you long after you've forgotten what drove you to posting it and the mood is long gone...> Understood. I know that phenomenon quite well. <The thing is -- I have always had a natural dislike for critics.> I can understand that, too. I'm sorry if my opinions came off a bit snotty in places. I'm thinking of editing the guide, snipping out all traces of personal bias and just leaving in the facts. Of course, that might be a little dull... <...and I'm also sorry for plastering your name in an internet message board subject line.> If you hadn't, I would never have seen it at all. When Geocities shut down, I asked Yahoo and Google to post the new addresses for my various sites, and I was just checking to see if they'd kicked in yet. Then I found your post - and was a little taken aback by it at first, but then I got over it. Not a problem. Lots of people get irritated with me when I say what I'm thinking on the Internet. :-) <Just for the record, though, I cannot think of a single "Dick Van Dyke Show" episode which I would call "unworthy of association with the rest of the series."> Okay, maybe putting it that way was a bit too harsh. The document was originally intended for my own research and amusement, and I do have a caustic sense of humor sometimes. If you'll check the episodes to which I gave four stars, and compare them to the ones that only got one, you might get some insight into what I was thinking at the time. I always admired the show's combination of fun stories and well-developed characters, and I may have taken it too personally when that balance didn't quite work for me. On the other hand, three weaker episodes in five years is not a bad average. I certainly never intended to make it sound like I didn't like the series. If anything, it was because other episodes were so terrific that I felt let down by those few. Anyway, glad to have straightened everything out, and nice to meet you. * New info * In response to Artfiore's suggestions, I have now edited all the personal opinions out of the DVD Episode Guide and left in just the factual info. The quality ratings have been removed, and so have the snide criticisms. The new version of the site is now online at: www.dmkilgore.webs.com/dvd.htm or, if you'd like to see what the page USED to look like, click on this link instead: www.dmkilgore.webs.com/olddvdpage.htm
	Last edited by dmkilgore; 11-08-2009 at 06:07 PM.

08-06-2003, 01:35 PM	#2
Lolac Dolce far niente, Carissima! Senior Member Join Date: Jan 02, 2003 Location: Fairfax Station, VA Posts: 1,487	Wow, Artfiore1. Who is this David M. Kilgore? What are his credentials? Why would he be writing a book about TDVDS anyway? Just wondering. I have to agree with him that the worst episode of the series was "You Ought to Be in Pictures." That and "The Gunslinger" are my 2 least favorites. The others that you (or he) mentioned, I do like. I love "Draw Me a Pear." I love the scene where he is in her studio and she hits on him when Laura is standing outside the door. I think it is so funny! Are there any official books out there about TDVDS? There is a book out about MAS*H called "The Complete MASH" that is supposed to be the definitive work about that show. Is there anything like that for TDVDS? I'd be interested in reading something like that! Lolac countin' down until October 21! 76 more days!

08-06-2003, 04:22 PM	#4
Artfiore1 Member Frequent Poster Join Date: Mar 28, 2001 Location: East Brunswick, NJ, USA Posts: 457	Lolac, Sorry for not pointing out that it was a web page, not a book. In fairness, there are several good things about the Kilgore episode guide. It contains the title and the number of each episode . . . and at least an idea of what each one is about. Additionally, he points out inaccuracies in them such as . . . which episodes indicate that Mel was married to Alan's sister, and which ones imply that Alan was married to Mel's sister. in which episodes Rob's army buddy's name was Sol and in which ones his name was Sam. which episodes say that Laura's maiden name was Meehan, and which ones say it was Meeker. and a contradiction in what Alan's wife's name was. Later, Art

08-06-2003, 09:15 PM	#7
Artfiore1 Member Frequent Poster Join Date: Mar 28, 2001 Location: East Brunswick, NJ, USA Posts: 457	Lolac, You're right. Sorry about that. Evidently, I missed something whien I read through the thing. Later, Art

11-06-2009, 07:57 PM	#9
JudgeGarth Member Frequent Poster Join Date: Apr 07, 2004 Location: Wheaton, IL Posts: 443	OMG. 'A Vigilante Ripped My Sports Coat' is my favorite!

11-12-2009, 10:55 AM	#14
1960'sTVfan Member Forum Veteran Join Date: Sep 30, 2009 Posts: 6,112	I have seen You Ought To Be In Pictures. It's certainly not a great episode, but I wouldn't say it's the worst episode of the series. The episode is notable for the appearance of Michael Constantine as a guest star. He would go on a few years later to a starring role in Room 222.