Carl Lumbly discusses his many film and TV roles

[TMC]

https://www.avclub.com/carl-lumbly-i...justice-league

Cagney & Lacey (1981-1987) / Cagney & Lacey: The Return (1994)—“Marcus Petrie”



AVC: You mentioned how you found your way onto Cagney & Lacey, but we should circle back and focus on the experience. How did you feel about the evolution of your character?

CL: I think I had three wives, because at that time, Petrie was not central, so when a wife was cast, it might be several episodes to a couple of years later before the next wife would be needed, and that wife was gainfully employed elsewhere, so a second wife was employed. But the third wife [Vonetta McGee] was the wife I actually married. I don’t know if I did that just to maintain consistency in the role [Laughs.] or if—as I actually felt—I had been smitten and was head over heels in love with this woman and felt that it was appropriate. The casting wasn’t always excellent, but in this case, it was perfect.

How I felt about the evolution of the character is how I felt about my personal evolution in this business. I chafed quite a bit at what I felt was—yes, I was part of the ensemble, but in the way that cayenne is part of the spice shelf. If you’re going to be used, it’s going to be sparingly, because you’re not exactly the main dish, and you’re kind of strong. [Laughs.] So I had to work with that. I remember at certain points asking—or suggesting—in scenes, “I’m not certain why Petrie isn’t here for this, because this was a point brought up in this earlier episode that Petrie had made.” And people were very frank with you at that time. They would say things like, “Well, we can’t do that, because that would put you in a scene with so-and-so, and a lot of our sponsors are in the South, so we can’t.” And that was definitely a part of what I had to deal with as it went along. “We have to be pragmatic. The reason the show is on is to get viewership, and if there’s a bulk of the viewership that is uncomfortable with your presence, then we can’t do that. Certainly you understand.”

I did not understand that at all. I said, “I understand what you’re saying.” I had two escape valves: “I understand what you’re saying” and “I hear you.” They both operated very well, because it meant that I could leave the room, and I wasn’t lying. [Laughs.] I understood the words. But it was an affront.

I’m not sure that the character necessarily evolved. Petrie got as good as I was at processing the indignity, the unfairness, and the degree to which it was important that he was there. That was more important than me being satisfied in my work environment. The fact that, when I would go out and I would be recognized by any number of people, but especially by Black people, who would say things like, “It’s so good to see you on television. I turn it on every week, and sometimes I don’t see very much of you, but every time I do, I feel good.” That became as important to me as satisfying my ego gratification. I’ll call it that. You don’t do all the work that I do, the roles that I do, without feeling like you want that contribution to count. Petrie came to understand the contribution that he was making simply by continuing to survive. That was a lesson that I had been taught by all sorts of people, including my parents, other immigrants that I had known, and people in the community and other Black people who moved around in the world, and politicians. All of those people who were not getting their due but staying in the fight.

AVC: A friend of mine had a very specific question, so I want to read it word for word: “I’d love to hear his thoughts about his departure from Cagney & Lacey right after an ill-conceived race episode. The episode correctly puts Cagney in the wrong, but I still didn’t like the use of the N-word in doing so.”

CL: I understand what he feels about the fact that it was ill-advised. I personally was not raised using the N-word. There’s a way in which an argument can be made that the N-word was taken away from the people who used it in a way to hurt. There were people who took the power away from it and gave it to themselves, and I understand that that was important, but it was not a word that was part of my development, my background. I definitely hear my father on that one. [Laughs.] I couldn’t do it.

I would say to him that it was not solely the reason that I didn’t stay for the last season. But I did have a strong sense that, in that position, as a member of the cast, I was a part of everything that came out of the show, whether I was on that episode or not, whether I was in that scene or not. And I was not a fan of the use of that word. But in fairness, I was also just ready to see what else there was. In my mind, Petrie decided to drop police work and become a lawyer. So, that was my thinking about things having come to an end for both of us. And that end marked a beginning for both of us. So whatever was going to happen next, I was looking forward to it. And it wasn’t as much a matter of “let me get out of here.”

There were things about Cagney & Lacey that I was very proud of. I was very proud of the concept of the show. There’s an inaccurate story that’s being told to this day about the power of women, so that’s a point of pride on my IMDb that I was a part of that.