Why did CBS cancel the "Gloria" spin-off with Sally Struthers in 1983

[TMC]

Gloria during its single season, got higher ratings than Cheers, Family Ties and Silver Spoons on NBC, but those shows all got renewed. It even outranked Archie Bunker's Place in 1982-83. Did CBS worry that Gloria couldn't survive without ABP (which was entering its final season as Norman Lear was ready to wrap it up despite Caroll O'Conner believing that he had at least one more year left in him) as a lead-in?

[QTMcWhiskers]

Good question.

I saw a couple eps; it's not that bad of a show, and apparently Michael later ditches the commune and eventually shacks up with a girlfriend! If Mike was said to be the personification of the hippie movement... wow.

I also wonder, if the vet lady that Burgess Meredith would later leave the business to could have been played by Bea Arthur. But it's neither here nor there...

[mets82]

Before Mike left the commune, he lost his job at The University. I didn't see but wasn't it addressed on Archie Bunker's Place that he was fired for streaking naked or protesting naked?

[MikeLutton]

it was on a season one episode of Archie Bunker Place thanksgiving episode

[Duster76]

"Gloria during its single season, got higher ratings than Cheers, Family Ties and Silver Spoons on NBC, but those shows all got renewed. It even outranked Archie Bunker's Place in 1982-83. Did CBS worry that Gloria couldn't survive without ABP (which was entering its final season as Norman Lear was ready to wrap it up despite Caroll O'Conner believing that he had at least one more year left in him) as a lead-in"

This is an interesting point. The numbers behind the numbers might give us a better picture of what happened with respect to this series. Were the ratings steady, or was there a decline as the series moved through the first season? How were the demos? I imagine ABP tended to skew older and perhaps that was also the case with Gloria. Keep in mind 60 Minutes which preceded both programs was at its zenith in 82-83 (I believe it was the number 1 rated program of the year), it might have been concluded by the suits running CBS that ABP and Gloria failed to retain enough of that audience, and the audience that was retained might have been (demographically speaking) the less desirable parts.

Oftentimes these things do boil down to money, CBS may have been willing to renew ABP, but not at a price Lear could live with, and concluded what you speculated on, Gloria without ABP would not survive.

[Retro4Life]

I liked Gloria as a character, but honestly, without the support of Edith (deceased), Mike (divorced..again), and Archie (cancelled), I don't think there was enough "there" there to keep the series afloat for long. The whole thing makes me angry; they couldn't have just ended AITF when it should have ended; they have to drag it out and in order to do that and launch this they had to break up Mike and Gloria, kill off Edith and leave Archie in limbo.

Tragic, and it's just going to be this way forever...

[Duster76]

'I liked Gloria as a character, but honestly, without the support of Edith (deceased), Mike (divorced..again), and Archie (cancelled), I don't think there was enough "there" there to keep the series afloat for long'

I don't think Sally Struthers has the "it" factor, (in other words, she doesn't have the magnetism needed to carry the lead role in a series).

"This whole thing makes me angry; they couldn't have just ended AITF when it should have ended; they have to drag it out and in order to do that and launch this they had to break up Mike and Gloria, kill off Edith and leave Archie in limbo".

An excellent comment. This to me the a major flaw in the Lear product. He doesn't logically evolve his characters and he doesn't care at all about continuity logic. And it's a factor in many of the shows he was associated with. Lamont taking acting classes, the Sanford Arms angle, George Jefferson going from owning a dry cleaning store to owning a string of stores throughout the city, leaping into the upper middle class, Maude becoming a congresswoman. The character of Edith was morphed from "dingbat" to wise guiding light, it didn't make sense based on the original premise of the series. Archie well into his 50's, who spent his entire working life employed by other people working on a loading dock, jumps from that to an independent businessman operating a bar/restaurant, again, it didn't make sense.

[Dr. Thong]

Originally Posted by Duster76

"Gloria during its single season, got higher ratings than Cheers, Family Ties and Silver Spoons on NBC, but those shows all got renewed. It even outranked Archie Bunker's Place in 1982-83. Did CBS worry that Gloria couldn't survive without ABP (which was entering its final season as Norman Lear was ready to wrap it up despite Caroll O'Conner believing that he had at least one more year left in him) as a lead-in"

This is an interesting point. The numbers behind the numbers might give us a better picture of what happened with respect to this series. Were the ratings steady, or was there a decline as the series moved through the first season? How were the demos? I imagine ABP tended to skew older and perhaps that was also the case with Gloria. Keep in mind 60 Minutes which preceded both programs was at its zenith in 82-83 (I believe it was the number 1 rated program of the year), it might have been concluded by the suits running CBS that ABP and Gloria failed to retain enough of that audience, and the audience that was retained might have been (demographically speaking) the less desirable parts.

I read a book about AITF and it made a point that shows that had lower ratings than ABP and Gloria on CBS were renewed for the 1983-84 season. It was speculated that someone at CBS felt ABP and anything associated with it was too old school and that's why the shows were cancelled.

At the very least, CBS should have let ABP come back in the fall and do a one-hour farewell episode, IMO. The way they treated Carroll O' Conner after 12 years was appalling.

[Retro4Life]

Originally Posted by Dr. Thong

I read a book about AITF and it made a point that shows that had lower ratings than ABP and Gloria on CBS were renewed for the 1983-84 season. It was speculated that someone at CBS felt ABP and anything associated with it was too old school and that's why the shows were cancelled.

At the very least, CBS should have let ABP come back in the fall and do a one-hour farewell episode, IMO. The way they treated Carroll O' Conner after 12 years was appalling.

In my mind, the journey of Archie and Edith and Mike and Gloria ended in May of 1978, when the kids moved West. Everything beyond that is just an alternate universe.

[Dr. Thong]

Originally Posted by Retro4Life

In my mind, the journey of Archie and Edith and Mike and Gloria ended in May of 1978, when the kids moved West. Everything beyond that is just an alternate universe.

Pretty much.

[TMC]

I wonder if the failure of the Gloria spin-off effectively killed Sally Struthers' career (or at least her credibility as a leading lady), infomercials and regional theater notwithstanding? People seem to forget that she had done one some interesting work in film (like Five Easy Pieces and The Getaway) even before All in the Family, where she won 2 Emmys.

[TV Guy]

Originally Posted by Duster76

The numbers behind the numbers might give us a better picture of what happened with respect to this series. Were the ratings steady, or was there a decline as the series moved through the first season? How were the demos? I imagine ABP tended to skew older and perhaps that was also the case with Gloria. Keep in mind 60 Minutes which preceded both programs was at its zenith in 82-83 (I believe it was the number 1 rated program of the year), it might have been concluded by the suits running CBS that ABP and Gloria failed to retain enough of that audience, and the audience that was retained might have been (demographically speaking) the less desirable parts.

This is exactly what happened. Comparing rankings of shows from different networks in different time slots isn’t useful. The ratings for Silver Spoons and others don’t matter.

Had “Gloria” gotten the rating it did in one of CBS’ more difficult time slots at the time - like Wednesday at 8:00 - CBS would have been thrilled. Instead, ABP and Gloria were in CBS’ best time slots and they were pissing away the best lead-in on TV.

[Mr. Television]

Originally Posted by TMC

I wonder if the failure of the Gloria spin-off effectively killed Sally Struthers' career (or at least her credibility as a leading lady), infomercials and regional theater notwithstanding? People seem to forget that she had done one some interesting work in film (like Five Easy Pieces and The Getaway) even before All in the Family, where she won 2 Emmys.

She did do the sitcom 9-5 for a couple years as well as the sitcom Dinosaurs. She also later was a recurring actress on Gilmore Girls. So she's been around.

[TMC]

Originally Posted by QTMcWhiskers

Good question.

I saw a couple eps; it's not that bad of a show, and apparently Michael later ditches the commune and eventually shacks up with a girlfriend! If Mike was said to be the personification of the hippie movement... wow.

I also wonder, if the vet lady that Burgess Meredith would later leave the business to could have been played by Bea Arthur. But it's neither here nor there...

Was that completely at odds with the direction Mike had been heading in for the entire run of AITF, as he'd been growing more responsible and conservative in his behavior? Not to mention, by 1982, how many hippy communes were still around? And instead of having an amicable divorce, which the audience could have bought (since we knew that Mike and Gloria had marital problems), they essentially made Mike into a deadbeat dad who abandoned his wife and son.

[Dr. Thong]

Originally Posted by TMC

Was that completely at odds with the direction Mike had been heading in for the entire run of AITF, as he'd been growing more responsible and conservative in his behavior? Not to mention, by 1982, how many hippy communes were still around? And instead of having an amicable divorce, which the audience could have bought (since we knew that Mike and Gloria had marital problems), they essentially made Mike into a deadbeat dad who abandoned his wife and son.

That never rang true for me, either. Mike had been growing more conservative with age (I think we all do, whether we're conservative or liberal in our political leanings), but I can't see him just trashing his life and career that way.

And while he and Gloria did have an increasingly shaky marriage as time went on, I can't believe he would have ended up a deadbeat dad. Okay, maybe I can buy them growing apart and divorcing, but I think he would be involved in his son's life and would have a friendship with Gloria based on mutual respect and the fact that they had a young son to raise.