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The Nanny links and theme songs at Sitcoms Online / The Nanny Photo Gallery
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#1 | |
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Member
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Join Date: Jan 09, 2001
Posts: 124,387
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http://www.inquisitr.com/4294363/fra...-was-canceled/
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#2 |
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Every day’s a Dolly day!
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Join Date: May 02, 2008
Location: I’m just travelin’ thru
Posts: 19,252
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We all knew this. Once they hook up the 2 main characters, the show goes downhill.
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Give generously to them and do so without a grudging heart; then because of this the LORD your God will bless you in all your work and in everything you put your hand to. Deuteronomy 15:10 In loving memory of my best friend, my Mama. |
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#3 | |
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Forum Regular
Join Date: Mar 03, 2007
Posts: 661
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Last edited by glickmam; 07-22-2017 at 11:21 PM. |
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#4 |
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Member
Forum Fanatic
Join Date: Nov 09, 2006
Posts: 10,086
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On the other hand I didn't like how they kept Tony and Angela in limbo at the end.
I like resolution and wanted to see Diane marry Sam at the end of the CHEERS as well. |
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#5 | |
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Every day’s a Dolly day!
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Join Date: May 02, 2008
Location: I’m just travelin’ thru
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#6 |
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Member
Frequent Poster
Join Date: Nov 02, 2005
Posts: 110
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I can see where their pairing would have taken the air out of the 'Will-They-or-Wont-They' subplot, but I also think another reason the show jumped the shark was the unrealistic pairing of Niles and CC. To be honest, I thought their constant bickering, cat-fights and insults were the real secret weapon this show carried. But once they fell for each other, we lost that 'cat-and-mouse' fun they had with each other. The audience just finally got bored and missed the "mystery' of the characters. It was lazy writing.
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#7 |
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Member
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Join Date: Dec 10, 2002
Location: colorado
Posts: 319
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I totally agree the shows chemistry bit the shark when they were a couple, If there was a reboot, maybe it would be all a dream that Fran had and she is still single, Of course the kids would be much older so not sure where a Nanny would be needed in the Shefield household. As far as Moonves, he needs to needs to go period, the guy is a money hungry _______ (Insert here
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#8 |
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Member
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Join Date: Nov 02, 2005
Posts: 110
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I think the romance between Max and Fran was necessary, but not till the very end of the show's run. As a parting gift and reward to the fans for being loyal. But by adding the CC and Niles romance was SERIOUSLY jumping the shark here. That should have never HAPPENED.
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#9 | |
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Location: colorado
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#10 |
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Member
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Join Date: Jun 25, 2001
Location: Boston, MA, USA
Posts: 3,419
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I also hated the Niles/CC romance.
In reality, that marriage got the show a sixth season. The ratings were already trailing off in the fifth season. The kids were growing up. The premise was tired. It’s similar to I Dream of Jeannie. That show was also going to get cancelled anyway, so why not give the characters a happy ending and give us a chance to see how married life turned out? |
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#11 |
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Omaha & Fritz
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Join Date: Mar 06, 2004
Location: Oregon
Posts: 19,016
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Fran's voice was shattering too many ear drums?
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__________________
"I'm going to go do something productive. I'm gonna go watch television." - Ray Peterson, The 'burbs "I am the literary equivalent of a Big Mac and Fries." - Stephen King "There's nothing wrong with G-rated movies, as long as there's lots of sex and violence." - Elvira |
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#12 | |
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Join Date: Aug 14, 2009
Location: Toledo, Ohio
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Am I the only one who is struck by the irony of FRAN DRESCHER being opposed to Fran Fine and Maxwell ending up together? I respect the views of those who aren't / weren't in favor of the Niles and CC romance. It is weird to have CC end up happy and with her emotional issues resolved by the same person who has been picking on her by rubbing them in for years, and the implications of combining all those insults - and sometimes physically harmful pranks - with true love and the best sex either of them has ever had - are disturbing. There are things they say and do to each other - especially things Niles says and does to CC - that are the stuff of abusive relationships in other contexts. But, from a writing standpoint - I don't think the writers pulled it totally out of the hat in season 6 or took them from hating each other to attracted / in love in a so-sudden-it-was-implausible way - there were indications of attraction there, as early as season 3 with the kiss, and they had friendlier times as early as season 4. Sometimes Davis even delivered insults in ways that made you hear a hurt "I wish we could be together and I know you don't want me" behind them. I think if they were going to put Niles and CC together, maybe that should have happened while Fran and Max were still in limbo, and then Niles and CC could have inspired/helped/guided Fran and Max in some way, perhaps without Fran and Max even knowing Niles and CC were together. Then they could have allowed CC to be pregnant when Lane was. And for all Niles' and CC's faults, they seem much more "capable" than Fran and Max in many ways, and Niles did push Max to make his move with Fran - so they should have had Niles and CC be the ones who knew what they were doing in relationships and otherwise. There actually are many Niles-CC interactions throughout the series that could have led to their sleeping together and/or confessing feelings. In fact, it's not that hard to believe they DID start a relationship long before the end of season 6, and just concealed it. The question would be then - why the concealment, and why did they reveal it when they did and in the way they did? The episode "The Dummy Twins" (which ends with Niles and CC together) does not work well...she is rejecting him throughout the whole thing, he tells her off about her hopeless crush on Max, she realizes he is right and announces she is leaving Max (even as business partner) and five hours later Max and Fran find CC and Niles in bed together. However, Niles reports to Fran about his dinner date and other conversations with CC where she rejects him, so maybe he wasn't telling the truth about those and their ending confrontation was staged? Things that would have helped, for me, make that relationship feel less "off" - if they had started Niles and CC progressing toward a relationship after their date in season 4, and after she's clearly upset about his heart attack in season 4 - rather than continuing to flip back and forth from them being playful/friendly one moment or in one episode, and then mean again in another. Niles played more serious pranks on CC in seaon 5, and seems to have contributed to her breakdown, AFTER they start to fall for each other in season 4...and then they're back to falling for each other again in season 6, without any references to what has happened. I don't think they needed to make her have a breakdown, anyway - there are plenty of reasons they could have invented to have her leave - or, if they had to have her having mental health treatment, they could have said it was to cope with letting go of any hope she had of a relationship with Max, and then she should have come back definitely over him and/or having come to terms with the fact that she really had feelings for Niles. The episode "From Flushing with Love" is bizarre and has everyone behaving terribly and out of character, but it does have Niles and CC being friends for a while...maybe they should have continued that as part of progression toward a relationship instead of having him "drop" her. Because later, he is the one pursuing a relationship and she is the one rejecting him...so if he had feelings, he missed an opportunity. They also should have made CC wittier, so the two of them had mutual repartee, like other characters who have an attracted-but-covering-up-with-snark dynamic, instead of it feeling like one was picking on the other. (It often feels like Niles is picking on CC, but we're supposed to agree with it, and so it smacks of "woman who has more money than the men and is better than them at business must be a b***h and she deserves to be picked on." And you would think because of her money and position, she would have some power and could stop him if he went too far, but it doesn't feel like she has enough power - maybe because we can't be sure Max would ever stand up for her to Niles?) Fanfics run with the idea that she was always attracted to him, and thought of their exchanges as playful, flirtatious, sparring matches (that even turned one or both of them on), which is the interpretation I would prefer, if they're going to end up together. And she does have dialogue that supports that interpretation - times when she talks about their exchanges like it's a game. Some of the "physical" stuff he "did" (that is, pranks) seemed over-the-top-mean, though - and some of them were potentially really harmful. Not funny, and didn't fit with a "mutually-attracted-but-hiding-it-with-snark" relationship (although, there are a lot of shows where supposed friends play pranks on each other all the time.) And maybe they should have gone more into reasons why Niles and CC would have hidden their real feelings: CC would be disowned by her family for a dating a servant? People who invest money in Broadway shows would laugh at her, hurting the company's reputation? Could Niles have been pretending he thought CC was unattractive because he didn't want Max to notice that she was attractive? Maybe CC really didn't want Max and other men she did business with to think of her "that way" - maybe the reputation for a lack of femininity helped her be taken more seriously as a female producer? Other fanfics reveal that Niles made a move when they first met and/or they had some kind of hookup way back when and then she brushed him off due to their respective social positions. That wouldn't make her deserve everything he did, in my opinion, but it would make his combination of attraction with anger more sympathetic. I like the dream idea that brtcmfn mentioned. There is so much weirdness and weird behavior in season 5 - and some in season 6 - that I kind of like an idea mentioned by someone on another board - that seasons 5 and 6 are a dream Niles has - that he's still in the hospital that whole time. I even think sometimes that the plane at the end of "A Pup in Paris" had some kind of rough landing, Fran either got hit on the head or fainted from sheer panic, and then she dreamed much of seasons 4 and 5. I also didn't like that they had both couples having babies at the end, so soon into their marriages / relationships, because to me, it seems like babies would get in the way of what I like about both couples. How could Niles and CC continue to have the...escapades...they were notorious for when they had a baby? Unless they hired a nanny, which would mean CC was the same kind of distant, blueblood mother than her parents were. And Fran really wanted kids...but then she was so miserable taking care of the dolls in "The Dummy Twins." Fran was always kind of a spontaneous, carefree (even careless) person. I can't believe that she won't resent the babies interrupting her...private time...with Max and girl time with Val, and other things she likes to do. Both couples had reached points where they could enjoy being in love / together (kind of honey-moonish times), and babies can interfere with that. |
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Last edited by JL82; 09-03-2018 at 05:34 PM. |
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#13 | |
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Join Date: Aug 14, 2009
Location: Toledo, Ohio
Posts: 189
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They also had plotlines about marital problems that seemed more appropriate for a couple that hadn't gotten to know each other well enough before marriage, or that didn't fit for a couple that had been living together and raising kids for five years. You began to think it was mostly the physical that kept them together. |
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#14 |
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Join Date: Aug 14, 2009
Location: Toledo, Ohio
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The last few episodes - Yetta's Letters, Maggie's Wedding, and The Baby Shower - felt like a whole different series. Niles and CC were now a couple and blissfully happy, so there was no longer:
- exchanges of jabs between them (oddly, they hardly interacted with each other at all on screen once we were told they were together) - exchanges of jabs between Fran and CC - clumsy and unsuccessful attempts by CC to make passes at Max (although, those always ended with her arms around Niles anyway) - gripes by CC or Niles about how their life is going - I was glad they were happy, but it did take away a source of funny lines There seems to be a relaxing of tension among everyone. But to some extent, all of season 6 feels like a whole different series. Partly, I think, because they stopped making as many references back to things that happened previously. And once Fran adopted the kids, I felt like they kind of forgot there was ever a first Mrs. Sheffield. They had Niles and CC kind of pick up where they left off in season 4, I felt like - as though her breakdown and some of the worst things he did to her never happened - but it also seemed like no one remember their date in season 4. But shifting the focus to Niles and CC did kind of help address the issue of "we've lost the sexual tension." Fran and Max were now "official" but you still had Niles and CC to play with. When Fran was worried in "The Baby Shower" (and I can't figure out where that title comes from) that Max is going to hook up with CC on a business trip, I kind of feel the writers trying to recapture the early days, when characters weren't sure where they stood with one another. And yet, it worked for me. I could believe there were still insecurities there - sometimes when there's a long period where one partner won't make a commitment the resentment can linger even after they have. It does seem like there are some things about Fran and Max's relationship she never gets over. And I like that in "The Baby Shower" we get to hear how happy CC is with Niles. However, Max should have done a better job of reassuring Fran of his fidelity...I wish he had expressed his "satisfaction" with the physical side of their relationship the way CC does with her and Niles. |
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Last edited by JL82; 09-03-2018 at 07:28 PM. |
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#15 | |
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Join Date: Aug 14, 2009
Location: Toledo, Ohio
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They could have focused more on the premise of Fran as a fish out of water and the effect she had on the high society people and vice versa, without the romance plot. Think about, for example, the show Perfect Strangers, with kooky Balki from another country. He does have a long-term relationship, with slightly-less-major character (including some breakups), and there is some question about where that relationship will go, but the focus is more on how his quirkiness affects his cousin/roommate Larry, and how Larry affects him, and their friendship. Or, think about the movie Mary Poppins. The nanny, who is...unusual, to say the least, has an effect on the family, but the dad and mom are both alive and the dad, while he is a changed person because of Mary, does NOT fall in love with her. Fran being so eager to get Max to commit to / marry her actually got in the way of the personality traits that made her special in the first place (and caused her to be unpleasant and even mean at times) and got in the way of her relationships with the kids. There are times - in season 5 but also even earlier - where the characters seem very conscious that they ARE characters, and are doing things just to keep the show going. The whole, "saying 'I love you' and taking it back, then not being able to say it again even when Fran asks" to me almost feels like "holding out for the sake of holding out" especially because some of the dialogue implies that Max and Fran both know it's true - he's admitting it's true yet not saying it - if that makes any sense. If a woman did that, it might be called "playing hard to get," and in fact, I do think some of Max's "appeal" comes from his aura of unavailability. Then, in "The Morning After," when Max is freaked out that he and Fran got a bit more intimate, Niles says, "Well, you could tell her you love her, and marry her, or you could invent some project to distract her..." Then Max goes to Fran and says, "Niles suggested I give you some project to distract you, but I told him I don't need to distract you...but, wait a minute, the kitchen needs redecorating." He basically tells her the project is a ploy to distract her...wouldn't that defeat the purpose? Wouldn't it guarantee she is NOT distracted? Like saying, "Don't think about pink elephants." And, letting her decorate mixes the messages further, because it implies she is, if not his partner, a permanent part of the household (and, indeed, a delivery man calls her "Mrs. Sheffield," in all seriousness and all innocence.) |
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Last edited by JL82; 09-04-2018 at 08:04 PM. |
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