Is "Burns and Allen" underrated??? - Sitcoms Online Message Boards

TMC · 05-08-2017, 01:44 AM

I can't understand how this show wasn't a bigger hit in either first run or syndication. What was their competition at the time of its original airing? Or was it really because Gracie Allen was getting too old to convincingly play a "ditz" for laughs? All I know, so far, is that only 4 of their 8 season were in the Top 30 of Nielsen ratings.

stevea · 05-08-2017, 08:23 AM

I checked Wiki, and it shows ratings of 1953 at 20, 1954 - 26, 1955 and 1956 - 28. This really amazes me...I watch this show now, and it's sooo funny.

Many people probably think Gracie being a ditz is the only comedy to this show. There is much more--George's asides to the audience, his monologues, his magic TV in the last 2 seasons, outsiders' reactions to Gracie.

Evidently CBS recognized how good it was, since they moved it to 8 PM on Monday, preceding I Love Lucy. That's when the ratings went into the top 30.

Babalu · 06-18-2017, 05:03 PM

Watching limited snippets through the years I thought it was hilarious but I could see it getting tiresome week after week.

OH Nuts! · 10-20-2020, 10:08 PM

Absolutely! Gracie is brilliant. For me the “Holy Trinity” is Gracie, Lucie & Gilda!

PracTz · 10-21-2020, 09:27 AM

While I loved Gracie- and George and the Mortons' reactions to her antics as well as Harry Von Zell getting into trouble being drawn into them, I think there were a couple of things that made the show somewhat lose its luster.

One is having them have Blanche's grifting, cheating brother as a semi-regular who deliberately took advantage of Blanche and Gracie's naivete to pull stuff over on George and Harry Morton. I hated the idea of someone deliberately exploiting Gracie for their own gain rather than have it backfire due to her illogical logic ruling.

The second was bringing in their son Ronnie Burns as a regular who was home from college but had barely been mentioned in all the years before. Yeah, he was tall and handsome but he also was awkward and unfunny and by no means had what it took to have been a foil.

Of course, it should be kept in mind that Gracie's comedy was virtually all verbal while Lucy's had strong emphases on physical stunts as well as verbal interaction.

stevea · 10-21-2020, 06:13 PM

I agree, Blanche's brother Roger broke what should have been a writing rule of the show. He had Gracie figured out and used her to his advantage--that should never have happened. Apart from that he was an annoying, unlikeable character, used way too often.

They probably brought Ronnie in due to the popularity of Elvis at the time (they even had him make a record late in the final season). This resulted in too many scripts which centered around him, and the comedy gold was really Gracie. George knew this (after all, he WAS the straight man), but allowed it anyway. Perhaps as a counter he brought in the magic TV in the den, which probably started as a one-shot with the living room TV. In my opinion adding that spying TV in the den was a master stroke.

If George ever had any doubts about Gracie being the main draw, they were settled after she retired at the end of the 8th season. He continued the show without her, and it died after one season.

stevea · 10-21-2020, 06:20 PM

Another problem which probably resulted in a slow ratings start was (as mentioned earlier) that the first two seasons were live TV, not shown weekly. The live quality was fine (except for the cheesy-looking sets), but summer reruns (if they did them) would be poor-quality kinescopes; also, syndication of those episodes was out of the question. George must have realized this, which resulted in shooting on film starting with the third season.

forn · 11-19-2024, 05:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Babalu

Watching limited snippets through the years I thought it was hilarious but I could see it getting tiresome week after week.

I caught an episode of this about a week ago, and I was really impressed with how well it was put together. For whatever reason, I've caught a number of episodes over the years and enjoyed them, but I never became a consistent watcher of the show. I'm not sure why.

When I compare it to I Love Lucy or The Honeymooners, this show feels "older" somehow. Maybe it's because the format it was filmed in isn't as sharp and clear as those other two shows. Maybe also because the humor is more vaudeville?

stevea · 11-19-2024, 06:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by forn

I caught an episode of this about a week ago, and I was really impressed with how well it was put together. For whatever reason, I've caught a number of episodes over the years and enjoyed them, but I never became a consistent watcher of the show. I'm not sure why.

When I compare it to I Love Lucy or The Honeymooners, this show feels "older" somehow. Maybe it's because the format it was filmed in isn't as sharp and clear as those other two shows. Maybe also because the humor is more vaudeville?

Another thing: the show hasn't been "worked on," that is, remastered into the standards of today, such as HD, as the other two have. So with B&A you have 1990s quality, when they also replicated the old syndication edits when you can easily see the blackouts where scenes have been chopped.

Aside from that, the oldest syndicated episode from season three use long shots occasionally, which show the sets behind a old-style theater curtain.

cd637299 · 11-27-2024, 09:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stevea

I agree, Blanche's brother Roger broke what should have been a writing rule of the show. He had Gracie figured out and used her to his advantage--that should never have happened. Apart from that he was an annoying, unlikeable character, used way too often.

They probably brought Ronnie in due to the popularity of Elvis at the time (they even had him make a record late in the final season). This resulted in too many scripts which centered around him, and the comedy gold was really Gracie. George knew this (after all, he WAS the straight man), but allowed it anyway. Perhaps as a counter he brought in the magic TV in the den, which probably started as a one-shot with the living room TV. In my opinion adding that spying TV in the den was a master stroke.

If George ever had any doubts about Gracie being the main draw, they were settled after she retired at the end of the 8th season. He continued the show without her, and it died after one season.

I haven’t watched this in a while, but 10 years ago it was must see TV for my wife and myself.

I could take or leave Roger—at least he had a personality, unlike Ronnie, who was just “there” for some reason.

The ONE character I wish never to see again was Peter, the room service guy in the New York season. This is another no-no in the sitcom world: not only did he laugh at the things Gracie said, but then said “I must write that down,” and proceeds to do just that. Not funny. At least that season had the future “Leave It to Beaver” stock music….

cd

forn · 11-27-2024, 10:28 PM

It's interesting that a lot of modern shows have broken the fourth wall, and they usually get hailed as being clever and creative. Like Garry Shandling, Fleabag, and a host of others. But I remember George Burns doing this on the Burns and Allen Show, and I don't recall anyone ever making a great deal of fuss over it. What I thought was really clever was that he would watch what other people were doing on the TV set. But this is surely an example of this show being underrated, because I don't think they ever got much credit for this.

Were there previous examples of breaking the fourth wall on TV? This is the earliest example I can recall, but my knowledge of early TV is limited.

cd637299 · 11-28-2024, 06:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by forn

It's interesting that a lot of modern shows have broken the fourth wall, and they usually get hailed as being clever and creative. Like Garry Shandling, Fleabag, and a host of others. But I remember George Burns doing this on the Burns and Allen Show, and I don't recall anyone ever making a great deal of fuss over it. What I thought was really clever was that he would watch what other people were doing on the TV set. But this is surely an example of this show being underrated, because I don't think they ever got much credit for this.

Were there previous examples of breaking the fourth wall on TV? This is the earliest example I can recall, but my knowledge of early TV is limited.

On TV? Hard to say, but much of early TV was performed live, so I am sure that if a line was flubbed, I don’t think it woulda been outta the ordinary for the guilty character maybe to step toward the camera and make a pithy statement.

Burns & Allen Show had their old vaudeville routines redone at the end of the show in later years. Vaudeville musta been chock full of 4th-wall-breaking moments.

The two WB cartoons “Duck Amuck” and “Rabbit Rampage” were done while the B&A show was going. The Beck & Friedwald book “Looney Tunes and Merrie Melodies” credited “Duck Amuck” as “not only breaking the fourth wall, but the fifth and sixth as well.”

The Rocky & Bullwinkle cartoons, although early on NOT having much 4th wall moments (taken a little more seriously), evolved into a fourth-wall *destruction fest*, where the characters interact with the narrator (even binding and gagging him in one episode), with oodles of references to earlier episodes (e.g., Rocky talking with a disguised Boris, then all the characters say together “That voice! Where have I heard that voice??”)….Jay Ward could milk a dialogue like nobody else.

All that said, even the Burns show *sans Gracie* ended just before Rocky & Bullwinkle began. This reminds me, I need to start a thread in Classic Cartoons.

cd

stevea · 11-28-2024, 09:24 PM

The B&A show got more clever as it got into the later years. The fourth wall stuff was already there, then early in the seventh season George tracked the wives' plotting on a TV in the living room, probably as a one-off gag. Communication with TV shows was always by letter in those years, and I think I read somewhere that bit generated so much mail that George set it up as a regular gag, using a TV in his den over the garage. And there were no secrets from the viewer. Things like a George line similar to, now let's see what I can do to make this fill out the whole half hour.

One thing I never knew but just read: the show had 11 Emmy nominations over its run. I guess, no wins--had Lucy not been around in those years, the story could have been different.

05-08-2017, 01:44 AM	#1
TMC Member Forum Idol Join Date: Jan 09, 2001 Posts: 124,387	Is "Burns and Allen" underrated??? I can't understand how this show wasn't a bigger hit in either first run or syndication. What was their competition at the time of its original airing? Or was it really because Gracie Allen was getting too old to convincingly play a "ditz" for laughs? All I know, so far, is that only 4 of their 8 season were in the Top 30 of Nielsen ratings.

06-18-2017, 05:03 PM	#3
Babalu Member Forum 4000 Club Member Join Date: Jun 22, 2014 Posts: 4,779	Watching limited snippets through the years I thought it was hilarious but I could see it getting tiresome week after week.
	__________________ . I just nailed Mrs. Trumbull

05-08-2017, 08:23 AM	#2
stevea 22 Years On Sitcoms Moderator Forum Legend Join Date: Aug 13, 2003 Location: Indy Posts: 44,164	I checked Wiki, and it shows ratings of 1953 at 20, 1954 - 26, 1955 and 1956 - 28. This really amazes me...I watch this show now, and it's sooo funny. Many people probably think Gracie being a ditz is the only comedy to this show. There is much more--George's asides to the audience, his monologues, his magic TV in the last 2 seasons, outsiders' reactions to Gracie. Evidently CBS recognized how good it was, since they moved it to 8 PM on Monday, preceding I Love Lucy. That's when the ratings went into the top 30.

10-20-2020, 10:08 PM	#4
OH Nuts! Member Forum King Join Date: Feb 15, 2005 Posts: 133,383	Absolutely! Gracie is brilliant. For me the “Holy Trinity” is Gracie, Lucie & Gilda!

10-21-2020, 09:27 AM	#5
PracTz Member Senior Member Join Date: Jul 14, 2002 Location: United States of America [Happily Living in the 20th Century] Posts: 2,711	While I loved Gracie- and George and the Mortons' reactions to her antics as well as Harry Von Zell getting into trouble being drawn into them, I think there were a couple of things that made the show somewhat lose its luster. One is having them have Blanche's grifting, cheating brother as a semi-regular who deliberately took advantage of Blanche and Gracie's naivete to pull stuff over on George and Harry Morton. I hated the idea of someone deliberately exploiting Gracie for their own gain rather than have it backfire due to her illogical logic ruling. The second was bringing in their son Ronnie Burns as a regular who was home from college but had barely been mentioned in all the years before. Yeah, he was tall and handsome but he also was awkward and unfunny and by no means had what it took to have been a foil. Of course, it should be kept in mind that Gracie's comedy was virtually all verbal while Lucy's had strong emphases on physical stunts as well as verbal interaction.

10-21-2020, 06:13 PM	#6
stevea 22 Years On Sitcoms Moderator Forum Legend Join Date: Aug 13, 2003 Location: Indy Posts: 44,164	I agree, Blanche's brother Roger broke what should have been a writing rule of the show. He had Gracie figured out and used her to his advantage--that should never have happened. Apart from that he was an annoying, unlikeable character, used way too often. They probably brought Ronnie in due to the popularity of Elvis at the time (they even had him make a record late in the final season). This resulted in too many scripts which centered around him, and the comedy gold was really Gracie. George knew this (after all, he WAS the straight man), but allowed it anyway. Perhaps as a counter he brought in the magic TV in the den, which probably started as a one-shot with the living room TV. In my opinion adding that spying TV in the den was a master stroke. If George ever had any doubts about Gracie being the main draw, they were settled after she retired at the end of the 8th season. He continued the show without her, and it died after one season.

10-21-2020, 06:20 PM	#7
stevea 22 Years On Sitcoms Moderator Forum Legend Join Date: Aug 13, 2003 Location: Indy Posts: 44,164	Another problem which probably resulted in a slow ratings start was (as mentioned earlier) that the first two seasons were live TV, not shown weekly. The live quality was fine (except for the cheesy-looking sets), but summer reruns (if they did them) would be poor-quality kinescopes; also, syndication of those episodes was out of the question. George must have realized this, which resulted in shooting on film starting with the third season.

11-27-2024, 10:28 PM	#11
forn Member Frequent Poster Join Date: Mar 18, 2022 Posts: 290	It's interesting that a lot of modern shows have broken the fourth wall, and they usually get hailed as being clever and creative. Like Garry Shandling, Fleabag, and a host of others. But I remember George Burns doing this on the Burns and Allen Show, and I don't recall anyone ever making a great deal of fuss over it. What I thought was really clever was that he would watch what other people were doing on the TV set. But this is surely an example of this show being underrated, because I don't think they ever got much credit for this. Were there previous examples of breaking the fourth wall on TV? This is the earliest example I can recall, but my knowledge of early TV is limited.

11-28-2024, 09:24 PM	#13
stevea 22 Years On Sitcoms Moderator Forum Legend Join Date: Aug 13, 2003 Location: Indy Posts: 44,164	The B&A show got more clever as it got into the later years. The fourth wall stuff was already there, then early in the seventh season George tracked the wives' plotting on a TV in the living room, probably as a one-off gag. Communication with TV shows was always by letter in those years, and I think I read somewhere that bit generated so much mail that George set it up as a regular gag, using a TV in his den over the garage. And there were no secrets from the viewer. Things like a George line similar to, now let's see what I can do to make this fill out the whole half hour. One thing I never knew but just read: the show had 11 Emmy nominations over its run. I guess, no wins--had Lucy not been around in those years, the story could have been different.