Timeless vs. dated?

[george ho]

I don't fully grasp "timeless" and "dated". Timeless is a thing that is still enjoyable at this generation and future ones. Dated is something obsolete or less than common nowadays.

Shows made before rise of internet and cell phone are obviously old and dated, especially The Golden Girls, Cheers, I Love Lucy, Seinfeld, and Married... with Children. Humor may still be timeless, but production values make their executions of plots totally dated. I can't say that B&W shows are common; they might exist in some shows exclusively for artistic reasons.

In The Dick van Dyke Show, Dick's character got injured in the ski lodge. He had trouble reaching for the pay phone. Since it was conveniently produced in the 1960s, there were NO cell phones or smartphones, or text messages. Nevertheless, inclusion of them would have been funnier and well-executed if another show could imitate its story.

In Friends, Monica had a HUGE cell phone and a pager that played major part of her job termination. Also, Chandler had older model of computer and printer (that was BRAND NEW during its first-run) that played the role of Ross and Rachel. Overall, people have aged into 30s! Pop references are either obscure or cut-off from syndication.

In 24, cell phones and other technology, including HUMMER, played major role for every episode.

In I Love Lucy, some episodes are obviously dated and nearly impossible to remake. Imitating Lucy's lip-synching of Carmen Miranda ("Mamae eu Quero") that went wrong by screwy vinyl player is possible because vinyl players still exist, especially at today's technology. However, maybe vinyl-to-MP3 player may or may not screw up, or a vinyl could be bad. Unfortunately, CDs and iPods have rendered vinyls as a past time, and Mamae eu Quero is easily found at Youtube... Maybe Youtube can help.... maybe not.

Imitating Lucy's inexperience film editing of mixing two films together into one (cowboy skit and Ricky's singing) is impossible. Making film at home is obsolete because we have cassette camcorders, hard-drive camcorders, webcams, etc. ...unless a nitwit (or casual person) screws up movie mixture... and then makes more drafts... and.... darn, imitation is impossible.

More major than technology are gender roles in older shows. For example, family shows, like Dennis the Menace and Leave It to Beaver have housewives and working fathers and trouble-making sons. Gilligan's Island have hot babes having fun, men trying to help the group survive in the island, and wealthy married woman.... still wealthy without money.

Timeless is timeless, but to me, every show is not that "timeless" but "dated". I have guilty pleasures for "dated" productions... and still enjoy them except many 1950s and 1960s shows, like ROUTE 66. Car is great, but social issues are so 1960s, even if relevant today. Even acting in the show is stale at early seasons (but might have gotten better later, as I could not continue the first season and the rest of the series), especially at today's standards.

Either Lucille Ball, Cheers, or Married... with Children can do better for this generation than a cool car with two adventurous men, watching times fly by.

When I read an article about Cheers, I guess episodic plots are less than common, while story arcs have become common.

If we go by this definition, even every novel is "dated" but still pleasurable, like Charles Dickens novels and John Cheever stories.

Thoughts?

[Schmoopie]

I think it's pretty impossible to make any TV show or movie 'timeless' b/c there's always going to be something in it that will be obsolete sooner or later (the clothing, hairstyles, gadgets, etc.), but it can still be timeless in that it can be enjoyed over and over again. Nora Ephron once said that she purposely made her movies like "Sleepless in Seattle" and "You've Got Mail" timeless and in a way they are. You have to look hard to find things in those movies that are obsolete. But of course they aren't that hard to spot. In "Sleepless", the computers look ancient and it's kind of the same way in "Mail". But as far as the overall story lines go... Two people falling in love-it's definitely timeless!

[george ho]

All versions of The Twilight Zone are "timeless" perhaps because of its presentation, good and bad. Star Trek and Star Wars have clunky technology, supernatural stuff, and lack of cell phones in the UNIVERSE that make themselves pluses, but hammy (and clownish) acting are obvious to recognize. Even CGI is becoming obvious to see nowadays.

Both versions of The Outer Limits are still "timeless".

[retrofan05]

I think "timeless" refers more to the fact that a show can still be relatable in any decade. One example I might give is "The Cosby Show." The show didn't focus much on the current events or technology of the time and instead focused on universal issues such as love and family. "Dated" means that a show has so many references that are specific to the era that the show was made, that it is practically impossible for a newer generation to get anything out of it. An example would be "Rowan & Martin's Laugh In," a show that oozed late 60's/early 70's youth pop culture.

[george ho]

"Timeless" and "dated" are not easy to exactly define. They have multiple meanings. Obviously, technology is dated, clothing is dated, and even format may be dated. As for The Cosby Show, look at clothing and puberty. True, basic premise is timeless, but the execution is obviously dated. Children grow up, and viewers know what are behind the scenes, like Lisa Bonet. In one episode, the music is so '80s, and even no African-American family can do something considered "corny" and "non-Black" nowadays.

Even The Fresh Prince of Bel-Air is obviously dated, especially with immature humor. At least it's still enjoyable by Will Smith himself.

What is the last show that does the 1950s/1960s sitcom formula? Unfortunately, I cannot remember which show does the Father Knows Best/Leave It to Beaver cliche nowadays.

In Los Angeles broadcast area, I have two retro channels (METV and Antenna TV). I also have I Love Lucy still running in KTTV and KCOP. Bewitched reruns have run for one year a while back, but it's gone now. I don't even see old sitcoms from 1950s and 1960s in daytime anymore. Maybe stations figured that viewers found them awfully dated, now that we still have Friends, Seinfeld, and Frasier. Well, Married... with Children is gone from my area to exclusively cable. Why do you think stations are favoring new over the old?

[EmoJoe]

A show's writing and quality holds more importance than whether their references are dated or whether or not they're using cell phones. Shows that put most of their focus on trying to be "current" and appealing to the mainstream scene at the time are going to appear dated - shows that put crafting strong stories and characters first are going to be "timeless".

[george ho]

Okay, to your definition, what are examples of "dated" and 'timeless' shows?

[retrofan05]

Originally Posted by george ho

As for The Cosby Show, look at clothing and puberty.

The puberty? I'm not sure what you mean by this. Obviously the clothing is going to be dated. There's nothing that can be done about that. As Emo Joe stated, the writing is what makes a show a show timeless, not clothing or the occasional pop culture reference.

Originally Posted by george ho

True, basic premise is timeless, but the execution is obviously dated. Children grow up, and viewers know what are behind the scenes, like Lisa Bonet.

Again, ? Are you referring to predictability? Because I don't consider that a factor in whether or not a show is considered timeless.

Originally Posted by george ho

No African-American family can do something considered "corny" and "non-Black" nowadays.

This is an unfortunate. It's interesting that in the 70's, blacks were heavily stereotyped on TV and then The Cosby Show came around and changed all of that. Now, however, TV seems to have gone backward and abandoned much of what The Cosby Show show tried to change about how blacks were perceived.

[TVFactFan]

Originally Posted by retrofan05

I think "timeless" refers more to the fact that a show can still be relatable in any decade. One example I might give is "The Cosby Show." The show didn't focus much on the current events or technology of the time and instead focused on universal issues such as love and family. "Dated" means that a show has so many references that are specific to the era that the show was made, that it is practically impossible for a newer generation to get anything out of it. An example would be "Rowan & Martin's Laugh In," a show that oozed late 60's/early 70's youth pop culture.

I have to disagree, although the cosby show is still enjoyable in 2012 there are still things on the show that lets you know that it's a 80's show

1. Kids hairstyles
2. Kids clothes
3. VCR in the living room
4. Floor model TV in the living room
5. References to Michael Jackson

[george ho]

Originally Posted by retrofan05

The puberty? I'm not sure what you mean by this. Obviously the clothing is going to be dated. There's nothing that can be done about that. As Emo Joe stated, the writing is what makes a show a show timeless, not clothing or the occasional pop culture reference.

In one episode of The Cosby Show, the teenage girl Vanessa gets caught by her parents for lying and then going to the concert due to fire at the house and... other stuff. At that time, there were no cell phones and internet; at this day and age, the girl Vanessa would have lost one today due to the con artist seen in that episode. Otherwise, she would secretly leave it at home and then take the batteries out without trace (or just turn it off). Chat messaging, text messaging, and other tech stuff would make past shows poorly aged.

Originally Posted by retrofan05

Again, ? Are you referring to predictability? Because I don't consider that a factor in whether or not a show is considered timeless.

Maybe predictable format, but I was also referring to every child growing up taller and with body changes, like breast growth, voice change, and other stuff. Children growing up is always predictable, and... I don't know if it is relevant to timelessness anymore. The "Urkel" part IS very predictable due to sci-fi, icky same ol' nasal voice, even physical mishaps, and failures to win Laura. Even his tech stuff is so '90s anymore, but at least Urkel... I don't know, but he is anything but timeless to me.

[Ant-Lox]

The stories make the show timeless, or dated.

IE: Seinfeld is timeless to me, yes, a lot of tech would make a few scenes obsolete, but not everyone in the world has cellphones, cameras and facebook.

A dated show for me would be "Dark Angel". The show uses some of the most dated lingo, that it throws the show off. It's not used naturally in a lot of the dialog, and it throws the show off.

A good show has stories that can relate to as many people as possible. Shows like Friends, Seinfeld and Frasier, Cheers, M*A*S*H are still going strong in syndication, the stories have to be timeless.

[TMC]

Movies that haven't aged well

Unintentional Period Piece

[megamanj2004]

Another long-running show that IMO where the stuff seems dated comes to mind is Murphy Brown. I mean I used to enjoy the show when it was originally on but looking at it nowadays it's easy to see why it didn't last too long in syndicated reruns and TV Land reruns. The most obvious reason is the topical humor from stuff like Dan Quayle and what not.

As for Cosby, on one side of the coin it's enjoyable sometimes (IMO) b/c of the family values factor but on the other hand it's dated fashions and styles make it a tad bit dated.

[TMC]

Originally Posted by megamanj2004

Another long-running show that IMO where the stuff seems dated comes to mind is Murphy Brown. I mean I used to enjoy the show when it was originally on but looking at it nowadays it's easy to see why it didn't last too long in syndicated reruns and TV Land reruns. The most obvious reason is the topical humor from stuff like Dan Quayle and what not.

As for Cosby, on one side of the coin it's enjoyable sometimes (IMO) b/c of the family values factor but on the other hand it's dated fashions and styles make it a tad bit dated.

Speaking of Murphy Brown failing in syndication:
Long running shows that bombed in syndication

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/YMMV/MurphyBrown

Deader than Disco: Unlike most Sit Coms of its era, Murphy Brown is rarely seen in syndication due to the now-dated political references (there's now an entire generation of TV watchers who have no clue who Lesley Stahl and Dan Quayle are.)

During its network run, Murphy Brown was one of the most talked about, critically acclaimed shows on the air. Today, it's nowhere to be found in syndication, and first season DVD sales were so poor that the second season was never even released. The show's reliance on topical humor is almost certainly a factor; jokes about Dan Quayle aren't nearly as funny 20 years later. It definitely doesn't help that its defining moment, Murphy's pregnancy and the subsequent feud with Dan Quayle, not only happened relatively early (the show ran for another six seasons after that), but has aged poorly — it seems quaint by today's standards for Quayle to have made such a big deal about a single mother on television.

[TMC]

What makes an old TV show “dated” (and is “dated” always bad)?

Shows that have not stood the test of time