The Reasons Why "8 Simple Rules" Got Cancelled

[TMC]

1. John Ritter's death obviously played a factor because the entire show was built around him and his personality. TV shows were one of the main stars suddenly die during its run usually haven't had a good track record. We've had "The Royal Family" (Redd Foxx), "Chico & the Man" (Freddie Prinze, Sr.), "Dennis the Menace" (Joseph Kearns), "Gimmie a Break" (Dolph Sweet), "Newsradio" (Phil Hartman), "Suddenly Susan" (David Strickland), "Cover Up" (Jon-Erik Hexum), "Sealab 2020" (Henry Goz), "Cosby" (Madeline Kahn), and "Petticoat Junction" (Bea Benaderet). Maybe the results would've been much different if the show was about Katey Sagal, David Spade, and James Garner from the very beginning.

The ratings spiked in the subsequent episodes spiked in a large part because the curiosity and sympathy (but mostly curiosity) surrounding the publicity of Ritter's shocking death. I suspect that ABC put "8 Simple Rules" on the "Friday Night Death Slot" because they wanted they had little faith in the show without John Ritter involved. They didn't want to cancel it upright because they still had some I guess compassion for the surviving cast and crew. They didn't want to feel guilty by suddenly putting people out of of a job just because of what happened to John Ritter. So when the ratings weren't living up to standards on Friday nights, ABC could then give a justifiable excuse for cancelling it.

2. The most of the post-Ritter show lacked focus and direction I think. What exactly was "8 Simple Rules" post-Ritter about? Was it about David Spade entering the household and influence on the kids? Was it about the kids having to put up with their mother Katey Sagal working at their school? Or was it kind of a "Full House" type of program were James Garner & David Spade's characters come to help Sagal's character raise the kids after the death of John Ritter's character?

Personally, if they needed another adult/paternal character to fill John Ritter's place, they should've brought in Cybil Shephard, who if I remember correctly, placed Katey Sagal's sister in two episodes in the first season. There we a the very least, would have a family member for whom the audience have actually seen (as opposed to pretty much starting from stratch with Garner and Spade) prior to Ritter's death.

3. I'm willing to bet that some viewers who were fans of Katey Sagal on "Married With Children" couldn't bring themselves to accepting Peg Bundy on a more conventional, moralistic program like "8 Simple Rules." "Married With Children" was considered to be fairly edgy and counter-culture for its time. Remember that the show came on about the same time that more I guess self-righteous or cornball family sitcoms were around like "The Cosby Show", "Growing Pains", "Full House", and "Family Ties." I'm sure that when the Sagal suddenly became the main focus of "8 Simple Rules" after John Ritter died viewers who still recognize Sagal for her cartoonish, dsyfunctional mother character on "Married With Children" didn't want her to suddenly become virtually everything that Peg Bundy was against.

4. After John Ritter died, the show I think brought in too many new characters (once again going back to my arguement of the show lacking focus) all that once. Besides James Garner and David Spade, there was Adam Arkin as the school principal and potential love interest for Katey Sagal (for which I'm sure made some viewers uncomfortable given John Ritter's still present "aura"), there was Pamela Anderson, and Jonathan Taylor Thomas. Plus, episodes like paradying "Freaky Friday" seemed to scream cheap desperation or a lack of more original scripts.

[katefandream04]

Originally Posted by TMC

1. John Ritter's death obviously played a factor because the entire show was built around him and his personality. TV shows were one of the main stars suddenly die during its run usually haven't had a good track record. We've had "The Royal Family" (Redd Foxx), "Chico & the Man" (Freddie Prinze, Sr.), "Dennis the Menace" (Joseph Kearns), "Gimmie a Break" (Dolph Sweet), "Newsradio" (Phil Hartman), "Suddenly Susan" (David Strickland), "Cover Up" (Jon-Erik Hexum), and "Petticoat Junction" (Bea Benaderet). Maybe the results would've been much different if the show was about Katey Sagal, David Spade, and James Garner from the very beginning.

The ratings spiked in the subsequent episodes spiked in a large part because the curiosity and sympathy (but mostly curiosity) surrounding the publicity of Ritter's shocking death. I suspect that ABC put "8 Simple Rules" on the "Friday Night Death Slot" because they wanted they had little faith in the show without John Ritter involved. They didn't want to cancel it upright because they still had some I guess compassion for the surviving cast and crew. They didn't want to feel guilty by suddenly putting people out of of a job just because of what happened to John Ritter. So when the ratings weren't living up to standards on Friday nights, ABC could then give a justifiable excuse for cancelling it.

2. The most of the post-Ritter show lacked focus and direction I think. What exactly was "8 Simple Rules" post-Ritter about? Was it about David Spade entering the household and influence on the kids? Was it about the kids having to put up with their mother Katey Sagal working at their school? Or was it kind of a "Full House" type of program were James Garner & David Spade's characters come to help Sagal's character raise the kids after the death of John Ritter's character?

Personally, if they needed another adult/paternal character to fill John Ritter's place, they should've brought in Cybil Shephard, who if I remember correctly, placed Katey Sagal's sister in two episodes in the first season. There we a the very least, would have a family member for whom the audience have actually seen (as opposed to pretty much starting from stratch with Garner and Spade) prior to Ritter's death.

3. I'm willing to bet that some viewers who were fans of Katey Sagal on "Married With Children" couldn't bring themselves to accepting Peg Bundy on a more conventional, moralistic program like "8 Simple Rules." "Married With Children" was considered to be fairly edgy and counter-culture for its time. Remember that the show came on about the same time that more I guess self-righteous or cornball family sitcoms were around like "The Cosby Show", "Growing Pains", "Full House", and "Family Ties." I'm sure that when the Sagal suddenly became the main focus of "8 Simple Rules" after John Ritter died viewers who still recognize Sagal for her cartoonish, dsyfunctional mother character on "Married With Children" didn't want her to suddenly become virtually everything that Peg Bundy was against.

4. After John Ritter died, the show I think brought in too many new characters (once again going back to my arguement of the show lacking focus) all that once. Besides James Garner and David Spade, there was Adam Arkin as the school principal and potential love interest for Katey Sagal (for which I'm sure made some viewers uncomfortable given John Ritter's still present "aura"), there was Pamela Anderson, and Jonathan Taylor Thomas. Plus, episodes like paradying "Freaky Friday" seemed to scream cheap desperation or a lack of more original scripts.

#3 I think isn't entirely true. I am a fan of Katey's and I think people who are fans of hers are willing to see Katey shine in a role completely opposite of Married...with Children.After all,most of us "big fans" have seen her in almost every role up to 8SR,every tv show,and own both of her cd's,and all her guest appearances. The only part of that I agree with,is that after John's death,most people were not accepting of Katey being a main role,after all,she was supporting character in most of her roles.

[Wings#1ShowPeriod]

I just hope for a DVD Release in the future.... that would be great

[Heart Shaped Box]

Originally Posted by Wings#1ShowPeriod

I just hope for a DVD Release in the future.... that would be great

Same here. I'll get every season!

[Mr. Television]

I know in the first few episodes she was barely in the show. It really changed after JR's death.

[Number 9 Dream]

I'll definately be purchasing the DVDs if it's released...please release them!!! I'm begging you!

[TMC]

I think that ABC wasn't very confident that Sagal could carry a show all by herself. This is in large part, why the producers brought James Garner and David Spade in to take some of the focus off of Sagal. Also, having Ed O'Neill (Katey Sagal's "Married With Children" husband) guest star seemed to obviously scream desperation. I'm sure that some viewers automatically assumed that it was going to be a "Married With Children" episode (were there was some obvious animosity or conflict between O'Neill and Sagal) just to see some laid back, I guess ponderous sort of approach to the script.

The producers and writers (and ABC for that matter) in my estimation, made a big mistake by repeatedly making some sort of blunt reference to Ritter's death. To me, it just added to the stigma that the whole show was going to go downhill without its main star. When ABC was promoting the first post-Ritter episodes, it just screamed "very special episode." Personally, they were too quick to come out with a brand new episode (like a month after Ritter died) to explain what happened to Ritter.

I honestly think that ABC, who I think was struggling at the time anyway, felt that they needed to capitalize off of the publicity surrounding John Ritter's sudden death. If this wasn't the case, then why would they air the episode were John Ritter's character dies like a week after it premiered?

[Pavan]

None of those reasons are why the show got canceled. The show performed like most of their other sitcoms, modestly, besides According to Jim and the According to Jim inflated Rodney. 8SR was higher rated than Less Than Perfect, and that will be back sometime next season.

The show was canceled because of one reason. How to air the show in syndication. I was told it would be hard to air an episode with John Ritter and then another with Spade/Garner. New people watching the show would be confused. As in local channel syndication, they usually air two "cycles" per market which air out of order. Like one run would start with episode 1 and the second run would be in the middle of the series. Certainly, the show would have made them a fortune in local syndication, but this was the main problem. They'll still make a fortune out of DVDs and cable syndication, and maybe even local syndication years from now, as some other shows with the same amount of episodes or less, have made it to local syndication. I guess they decided to go with Less Than Perfect for syndication in 2007.

[Superbowl]

Originally Posted by pavanbadal

The show was canceled because of one reason. How to air the show in syndication. I was told it would be hard to air an episode with John Ritter and then another with Spade/Garner. New people watching the show would be confused. As in local channel syndication, they usually air two "cycles" per market which air out of order. Like one run would start with episode 1 and the second run would be in the middle of the series. Certainly, the show would have made them a fortune in local syndication, but this was the main problem. They'll still make a fortune out of DVDs and cable syndication, and maybe even local syndication years from now, as some other shows with the same amount of episodes or less, have made it to local syndication. I guess they decided to go with Less Than Perfect for syndication in 2007.

Well, assuming that is true. That is a dumb reason. People would have to be from Mars or somewhere out of this world if they did not know what happend as far as John Ritter. Everyone who watches TV and almost everyone who are the type of people who watch shows in syndication know what happend. Newsradio ran in syndication after Phil Hartman's death. Also, Dennis the Menace airs in syndication with two Mr. Wilsons. Everyone who watches these shows always know what happend. I think this is a lame excuse, and a really a stupid reason for canceling the show. LTP will never have enough for local syndication anyway. I can't tell you how many people I have come across that have said they want to see the John Ritter episodes,and this show in general, in syndication.



Also, I would ask them then why in the world did they renew it after 2 seasons if they knew there would be such syndication problems ? The ratings were marginal after the goodbye episodes so you would think they would have canceled it after the second season and not even bother giving them a third season if they didn't have syndication plans. I think this is a really stupid decision by ABC.

[gwilson]

Originally Posted by TMC

1. John Ritter's death obviously played a factor because the entire show was built around him and his personality. TV shows were one of the main stars suddenly die during its run usually haven't had a good track record. We've had "The Royal Family" (Redd Foxx), "Chico & the Man" (Freddie Prinze, Sr.), "Dennis the Menace" (Joseph Kearns), "Gimmie a Break" (Dolph Sweet), "Newsradio" (Phil Hartman), "Suddenly Susan" (David Strickland), "Cover Up" (Jon-Erik Hexum), and "Petticoat Junction" (Bea Benaderet). Maybe the results would've been much different if the show was about Katey Sagal, David Spade, and James Garner from the very beginning.

The ratings spiked in the subsequent episodes spiked in a large part because the curiosity and sympathy (but mostly curiosity) surrounding the publicity of Ritter's shocking death. I suspect that ABC put "8 Simple Rules" on the "Friday Night Death Slot" because they wanted they had little faith in the show without John Ritter involved. They didn't want to cancel it upright because they still had some I guess compassion for the surviving cast and crew. They didn't want to feel guilty by suddenly putting people out of of a job just because of what happened to John Ritter. So when the ratings weren't living up to standards on Friday nights, ABC could then give a justifiable excuse for cancelling it.

2. The most of the post-Ritter show lacked focus and direction I think. What exactly was "8 Simple Rules" post-Ritter about? Was it about David Spade entering the household and influence on the kids? Was it about the kids having to put up with their mother Katey Sagal working at their school? Or was it kind of a "Full House" type of program were James Garner & David Spade's characters come to help Sagal's character raise the kids after the death of John Ritter's character?

Personally, if they needed another adult/paternal character to fill John Ritter's place, they should've brought in Cybil Shephard, who if I remember correctly, placed Katey Sagal's sister in two episodes in the first season. There we a the very least, would have a family member for whom the audience have actually seen (as opposed to pretty much starting from stratch with Garner and Spade) prior to Ritter's death.

3. I'm willing to bet that some viewers who were fans of Katey Sagal on "Married With Children" couldn't bring themselves to accepting Peg Bundy on a more conventional, moralistic program like "8 Simple Rules." "Married With Children" was considered to be fairly edgy and counter-culture for its time. Remember that the show came on about the same time that more I guess self-righteous or cornball family sitcoms were around like "The Cosby Show", "Growing Pains", "Full House", and "Family Ties." I'm sure that when the Sagal suddenly became the main focus of "8 Simple Rules" after John Ritter died viewers who still recognize Sagal for her cartoonish, dsyfunctional mother character on "Married With Children" didn't want her to suddenly become virtually everything that Peg Bundy was against.

4. After John Ritter died, the show I think brought in too many new characters (once again going back to my arguement of the show lacking focus) all that once. Besides James Garner and David Spade, there was Adam Arkin as the school principal and potential love interest for Katey Sagal (for which I'm sure made some viewers uncomfortable given John Ritter's still present "aura"), there was Pamela Anderson, and Jonathan Taylor Thomas. Plus, episodes like paradying "Freaky Friday" seemed to scream cheap desperation or a lack of more original scripts.

I wouldn't disagree with any of that except I liked Freaky Friday, even if it was derivative (this is tv, derivative is not only allowed, it is obligatory. lol. Bruce Cameron, who wrote the book on which the series is based gets kudos for execution if not for originality).

Kaley Couco's first intuition after John Ritter's death was that the show should be cancelled. And however grief stricken she may have been at the time, she may have been right in hindsight. Though I am grateful for the laughs and memories (and all scenes that Spade was not in. lol) in Seasons 2 and 3.

However, the above argument doesn't explain why 8SR was cancelled while Less Than Perfect, a lower rated show was picked up as a midseason replacementb(except if, as has been speculated, ABC offered that to 8SR and Pillot and Peaslee, in their arrogance and unrealism, declined). It is also my impression that Rodney, which was also picked up, was also lower rated.

[TMC]

Originally Posted by pavanbadal

None of those reasons are why the show got canceled. The show performed like most of their other sitcoms, modestly, besides According to Jim and the According to Jim inflated Rodney. 8SR was higher rated than Less Than Perfect, and that will be back sometime next season.

The show was canceled because of one reason. How to air the show in syndication. I was told it would be hard to air an episode with John Ritter and then another with Spade/Garner. New people watching the show would be confused. As in local channel syndication, they usually air two "cycles" per market which air out of order. Like one run would start with episode 1 and the second run would be in the middle of the series. Certainly, the show would have made them a fortune in local syndication, but this was the main problem. They'll still make a fortune out of DVDs and cable syndication, and maybe even local syndication years from now, as some other shows with the same amount of episodes or less, have made it to local syndication. I guess they decided to go with Less Than Perfect for syndication in 2007.

I think that another problem with airing the show in syndication is that there's going to likely be a certain aprehension factor. I would guess that there's going to be people who are going to be very unconfortable with a program in which they're aware of the main character's impending demise/fate.

I think that the difference between a show like "Newsradio" with Phil Hartman and "8 Simple Rules" with John Ritter was that unlike "8 Simple Rules" the bulk of the episodes (I believe "Newsradio" ran for four seasons with Phil Hartman) included Phil Hartman. I vaguely recall watching the episode of "Newsradio" were Phil Hartman's character dies. I don't remember "Newsradio" delivering this super melodramatic, surpy approach to explaining and coping with Hartman's death like John Ritter's was on "8 Simple Rules."

[Raisingdad2004]

I could understand it being weird, for anybody, especially John Ritter fans who have never seen the show to maybe watch knowing whats coming. Goodbye is a very sad episode and to know in your mind as you're watching a series develop and its embracing you that it will be hard - There's no question in Season 1 that John Ritter was the show.

I don't think it would be weird though with a station showing 2 runs and maybe seeing Season 1 then Season 2/3. That's happening around the world right now, I think it would be strange for a station to try advertise it though because it would be incredibly weird to see ads for "John Ritter ... 8 Simple Rules" and then suddenly "Katey Sagal, James Garner and David Spade ... 8 Simple Rules".

[Adamantium]

Originally Posted by pavanbadal

The show was canceled because of one reason. How to air the show in syndication. I was told it would be hard to air an episode with John Ritter and then another with Spade/Garner. New people watching the show would be confused. As in local channel syndication, they usually air two "cycles" per market which air out of order. Like one run would start with episode 1 and the second run would be in the middle of the series. Certainly, the show would have made them a fortune in local syndication, but this was the main problem. They'll still make a fortune out of DVDs and cable syndication, and maybe even local syndication years from now, as some other shows with the same amount of episodes or less, have made it to local syndication. I guess they decided to go with Less Than Perfect for syndication in 2007.

I did wonder who they'd promote when it came to syndication - John Ritter or James Garner/David Spade.

As for "NewsRadio", Phil Hartman was in the first 75 out of 97 episodes. He was one of the main characters, but Dave Foley was the actual star of the show. I'd say a closer example would be when Freddie Prinze died. They continued "Chico and the Man" without him. Prinze was in the first 62 out of 88 episodes. Of course, CATM wasn't aired in reruns for a long time. If I'm correct, TV Land, airing the show in 2001 was the first time since the 70's. Of course, Freddie Prinze is in the majority of the show, whereas John Ritter was only in one season out of three.

You'd think that "The Hogan Family" would then have the same fate. Since Valerie Harper was only in the first two seasons (I believe the first season was half-season).

[robyrob]

Originally Posted by pavanbadal

The show was canceled because of one reason. How to air the show in syndication. I was told it would be hard to air an episode with John Ritter and then another with Spade/Garner. New people watching the show would be confused.

I for one am glad that abc is concerned about the effects on the lab rats - er, viewers minds

[katefandream04]

abc is stupid and they should get their minds out of the gutter. 8SR deserves syndication and their brains know it.