The Wackers

[James T]

Originally Posted by GrantHarwood

Since this 100 page thread has the most activity - I've written a piece after obtaining the case file. Hopefully, those interested will find some new details here.

https://grantharwood.substack.com/p/cheaper-but-will-do

Fantastic-thanks a lot for this, I have long said here the conclusion you have reached after reading the case file & I always suspected the answer laid there. I don't believe Bill was in on it either, I have long suspected Dorothy was an attention seeker & probably with a husband she detested & certain family members that also didn't care for him conspired with her to make Bill's life a misery.

1. Dorothy's story about the 1985 incident makes it clear she was lying-telling two totally different stories & far from no neighbours being there as she claimed, we now know there were & they heard nothing. Four hours in a house not knowing when Bill or anybody else might return? Ridiculous. My guess is any bruise was done by Dorothy herself/her accomplice family member who then tied her up & slipped out.

2. The 1993 'assault' was nothing of the sort-I always thought the accomplice had gone too far, but now it turns out there were no lacerations/head injury & just some dirt she got on herself when laying down/crawling to make it appear she had been assaulted. Her clothing showed no signs of blood & neither did her body. No dog barking-indicating nothing happened other than at her own hand.

3. Interesting that the incidents carried on sporadically for the next nearly 2 years, I always wondered if it just stopped with the attention from the tv show.

4. Would be interesting to know if things were somewhat calmer in the Wacker house during 1987 & 1988 & Bill was getting on well with them & if something changed in 1989/if certain family members had moved away during those two years & then moved back.

5. I find the attitude of her daughters highly suspicious-Kathy comes off as a self-important attention seeker, demanding the cops go to her house first, wanting to know what they have etc-why should the cops go to her house rather than the reported crime scene & why would she want them to? Peggy as somebody trying to throw suspicion elsewhere/carrying grudges giving up names of people who don't resemble the photofit their mother made & even mentioning a psychic vision-another distraction technique, or is she just a kook? Why would somebody who had left their footprint in snow previously & more recently a flowerbed give a damn about the time of year?

6. We now know the security advice that would likely have caught any perpetrator was ignored. Was Bill just a guy set in his ways & determined to catch the persons himself & maybe at the end of his gun, or did he get talked out of it by his wife & the family on the grounds of cost etc so it could continue?

7. As said before the reappearing stolen items, the disguised handwriting on the notes & walls etc, no signs of any forced entry & any physical signs as the detective made clear not an attempt to get in, but an attempt to try to fool the police that they were, point in just one direction.

8. The neighbours seemed to have an issue with them but nobody else-obviously a lot ot if was the police presence there & having cops knocking on your door on a regular basis, but it seems to go further-one wonders if they were nuisance neighbours who would cause issues about parking, balls coming on their property etc? As a kid we had an old couple who were odd-the man was highly eccentric & the woman outright vindictive & she would lie about all kinds of things to get people in trouble.

9. That nobody ever saw or heard anything lends credibility along with the non-forced entries, items being returned-a criminal would just dump anything they couldn't sell & the changed phone numbers that was always quickly obtained that the source were the Wacker family.

10. The police seemingly made one mistake not pursuing the 1994 footprint-but by that point I suspect that after a decade of this stuff they were sick to the back teeth & just doing the basics, plus could they justify the cash to likely run into another dead-end? I assume this is not a huge area where all kinds of cash is available to them. I have always imagined the the cops faces there when another call came in from that address or they returned from the house visit & the conversations they had about that family.

11. It would be interesting to know what happened in the three years from the last incident in 1996 to when Bill passed away in 1999. Wondering if maybe he went into care in 1996 & if the whole point was to torture him & local reports were dying down so they were no longer getting much attention, then there was no further use to it?

12. I suspect Bill knew who it was after a while-he didn't seem stupid & everything pointed to an inside job for every incident & was hoping the UM publicity would make it stop. But being it was his family he ended up pretending it was an intruder & I cannot discount the fact that he might have ended up joining in with some of it late on to keep the peace/maybe he liked the UM attention, as no doubt it bought reporters & the ghoul squad to their door. Surely he would have had to confront Dorothy about claiming to have been struck in the head to where she was lacerated & then she goes to hospital & there is nothing of the sort, no stitches required-just some dirt on her forearms & she is sent home quickly & the tests on her clothes return nothing?

[James T]

Originally Posted by Allierain

Incredible. So well written and objective, nice job. There is a great deal of information here that I wasn’t aware of and I’m looking forward to seeing what others make of it. In my case I have even more questions now than I did before.

We love UM. But as time goes on I find myself wondering more and more about how other segments could be built on misinformation or downright falsehoods.

A lot-the shows idea was sensationsalism for entertainment & ratings & always push a more supernatural/conspiracy version. We heard from the late Joe Nickell how much of his interview for the ludicrous gold foil lady segement hit the cutting room floor while the non rational stuff got a lot more time. Look how much time they gave to the bogus Anastasia claim & The Georgia Rudolph grifter past life drivel & then no doubt much to her chagrin some guy came forward claiming to have been her lover & their romance had spanned centuries.

[James T]

Originally Posted by tvscript124

What jumps out at me is that someone said that the Wackers weren't the most congenial of neighbors. What does that mean?

I would imagine the usual things-twitching curtains, shouting at kids to get off their lawn, putting garden forks through stray kids footballs, moaning about car parking, moaning about loud music. General ratbags stuff that gets backs up.

[James T]

Originally Posted by TheCars1986

I could believe that Dorothy was orchestrating the attacks on herself. That's not out of the realm of possibility. But her also "stealing" the various items inside the house (including guns and other pieces that would be difficult to hide) and then returning them one by one to the house. What purpose does this serve? It also freaked out their kids and in-laws to the point where they staged a stake out and their daughter that lived out of state was in constant communication with the investigators. If there was even a hint of Dorothy and/or Bill being behind this, would their family willingly go along with this lie? Seems unlikely.

She wasn't-it would have been the family members. The stake-out was a joke & again all the family were there, those inside made the noises & one outside dropped the note that suddenly appeared after secreting it in their coat. We also know they were told to take security measures before this, didn't & left a blind spot.

[James T]

Originally Posted by EighthStreet

And really, that's where I'm at with this. Maybe the home invasion happened, but after that everything becomes very childish.
Can anyone provide an example of a harassment campaign that decreases in intensity over time? Especially one that reaches the crescendo of breaking in, assaulting, and tying up your target?

Indeed & can anybody find one that just randomly stops for two & half years-I believe because family members had moved away before returning in 1989, or Bill was getting on better with the family members during that time & one that lasts for 12 years-even after it has received national television exposure?

[James T]

Originally Posted by TheCars1986

Thank you for sharing.

While it seems the case file has led you to believe Dorothy Wacker was orchestrating all of this, there was one detail in it that makes me believe there was an actual stalker/attacker. The next door neighbor's brother, Jimmy Pedigo, was the one who came inside the house and cut Dorothy loose from her bindings. He told the police that when he was going to the house, he heard the front door slam...as if the perpetrator was fleeing. Dorothy isn't slamming the front door and then seconds later being cut loose of bindings that tied her hands beneath her legs and knees with a gag. The neighbors, understandably so (if they indeed had nothing to do with the harassment), made the comment about the Wackers not being "congenial" and that they "bring most of their problems on themselves". That strikes me as someone with a possible motive.

There were also shoe prints found outside of the home in 1994, measured to be 13.5" in tennis shoes. Bill, as the responding deputy noted, did not own or wear tennis shoes of that size. If this was Dorothy orchestrating everything, where did those prints come from? Your article, IMO, showcased the same message that the Wackers expressed on the segment: they keep getting harassed for years and it appears that, at least by 1994, the police weren't taking them seriously. To believe that Dorothy Wacker was behind all of this, she would have had to have been that convincing to either trick or have her daughter be complicit in this, because Kathy Battin was present when banging was reported in November in 1993. Neighbors aren't going to report anything suspicious if they themselves were behind it, or knew who was.

What he actually said was he thought he heard the front door slam as he came into the back of the house, not that he did hear it 100% no doubt in his mind, this after Dorothy had recounted her story to him before the police arrived, which would likely put a thought he had disturbed the person into his mind & he innocently as so many do retroffited it. It says the officer followed up-was this a follow-up question at the time of the interview, or a follow-up interview days later where his mind had even more time to work 'facts' in from the Wackers, neighbourhood gossip, papers, local tv etc?

If he did actually hear it, it could have been the draft of him opening the back shutting the front door if it had been left open or ajar-people in the neighbourhood said they didn't even bother locking their doors, it was July so would be hot & for people who had supposedly been robbed multiple times the year before the Wackers were slack with security & apparently Dorothy was happy while on her own to open her door to random men she had never met before & let them use her phone while she kept her back turned! It could also have been another noise out the front-maybe somebody slamming a front door or car door for instance. Rather than investigate it he chose to go straight to her-understandable, but as she wasn't suffocating or in any danger in retrospect the wrong move from an investigative standpoint.

The neighbours were totally sick of cop cars turning up & having to be interviewed regulalry, so it would make zero sense for them to be doing this stuff & again it would have to be a grand conspiracy where everybody was lying to say they never saw or heard anything.

This is where I believe the police did mess up-obviously Dorothy was not going to make those prints, nor her daughters. But how about the male relatives-were they checked out? Doesn't sound like it. I take a 12.5 wide UK which is a 13.5 2E in the US & there isn't much choice in that size even now, as there are not many of us around. I doubt in the 1980's those shoes were common at all, making tracing stores that stocked them locally a lot easier & leading potentially to the suspect who buying that size would possibly stick out. They could have at the very least investigated them just for elimination purposes-though it could have as happens with some burglars etc-somebody wearing an oversized shoe on purpose with padding to throw the cops off.

Kathy was clearly an attention seeker with delusions of grandeur, as evidenced by her demanding the police attend quicker, demanding the cops come to her house first-why should they & wanting to poke around as to what the cops had. The other daughter interjected herself via wild goose chases of people she had grudges with even though they in no way matched the description & seemed to be doing so to also divert attention away from the obvious culprits. Both of them & their husbands/partners would be prime suspect with this behaviour & the lack of evidence of any break-ins, the changed phone numbers being known right away-they would of course have been given those numbers, the disguised handwriting & returning items.

Her timeline is way off as well for no logical reason-Dorothy says he cut her loose at 11 AM in one story (why then would cops not turn up until after 2 PM) & 2 PM in the other. She also refused to go to hospital to be looked at-which is very suspicious. This is after all a 58 year old woman who claims to have not long before had heart surgery, that claims she has been punched/hit in the face with an object, causing her to fall to the floor hitting her head & being rendered unconscious, as well as being bound causing circulation issues for several hours-not good for anybody, let alone somebody recovering from heart surgery. The only reason is she knew full well the examination-like the one for the supposed 1993 attack where only dirt was found & no injuries would totally contradict her story.

[tvscript124]

For all you people who want to blame the Wackers, that's fine. But I will never believe that they did this. Sorry.

[James T]

Originally Posted by tvscript124

For all you people who want to blame the Wackers, that's fine. But I will never believe that they did this. Sorry.

Sure-people were able to just break into their homes without any forced entry/or after being burgled & harassed they just left their doors unlocked. Every time they changed their phone number the person magically found out what it was right away. Nobody else in the neighbourhood ever saw or heard anything. A near 60 year old recovering from heart surgrery & a string of burglaries just let random men come in her house to use her phone, turned her back to them & spent half an hour or four hours tied up-which one was it? An assault she claims left skull lacerations that there was no mention of in the police report-nothing on her clothes via forensic examination, the dog never barked-despite barking at the detective when he visited & just dirt on her forearms. Security advice given-yet none of it ever ever enacted by them. A decade of police coming out & aside from a couple of footprints a decade apart & a vague description of a white van-zero physcial evidence of anything

[tvscript124]

Originally Posted by James T

Sure-people were able to just break into their homes without any forced entry/or after being burgled & harassed they just left their doors unlocked. Every time they changed their phone number the person magically found out what it was right away. Nobody else in the neighbourhood ever saw or heard anything. A near 60 year old recovering from heart surgrery & a string of burglaries just let random men come in her house to use her phone, turned her back to them & spent half an hour or four hours tied up-which one was it? An assault she claims left skull lacerations that there was no mention of in the police report-nothing on her clothes via forensic examination, the dog never barked-despite barking at the detective when he visited & just dirt on her forearms. Security advice given-yet none of it ever ever enacted by them. A decade of police coming out & aside from a couple of footprints a decade apart & a vague description of a white van-zero physcial evidence of anything

I've listened to your side and given it consideration. My opinion still stands. That's the great thing about this board. We can disagree all day long (without being disagreeable) and maybe change our opinions. I certainly have in the past. But on this one, I've listened to and read all the evidence, and I'm not changing my mind. Agree to disagree.

[bigted12]

Originally Posted by tvscript124

I've listened to your side and given it consideration. My opinion still stands. That's the great thing about this board. We can disagree all day long (without being disagreeable) and maybe change our opinions. I certainly have in the past. But on this one, I've listened to and read all the evidence, and I'm not changing my mind. Agree to disagree.

What i've noticed by simply living in the world, if it's stories i've heard about relatives of friends, neighbors or whoever... is how petty family members can be and how it can lead to things that are completely unhinged and out of proportion..

Sometimes all it takes is for one family member not to get as much money left to them as some sibling, one doesn't get get invited to a wedding or whatever and they could begin doing what someone did to the whackers..

i mean it has to be a family member, because they changed number about 5 times, the person knew to avoid the night they watched the home..

what i would also say is that when you have a couple who have been married for years, when one begins to lose their base of reality, it's very easy for the other to do so too. it's a lot easier than you think.

i dont know who did it, but it was 100% within the family.

[tvscript124]

Originally Posted by bigted12

What i've noticed by simply living in the world, if it's stories i've heard about relatives of friends, neighbors or whoever... is how petty family members can be and how it can lead to things that are completely unhinged and out of proportion..

Sometimes all it takes is for one family member not to get as much money left to them as some sibling, one doesn't get get invited to a wedding or whatever and they could begin doing what someone did to the whackers..

i mean it has to be a family member, because they changed number about 5 times, the person knew to avoid the night they watched the home..

what i would also say is that when you have a couple who have been married for years, when one begins to lose their base of reality, it's very easy for the other to do so too. it's a lot easier than you think.

i dont know who did it, but it was 100% within the family.

I lean toward it being a family member too.

[XCalibur]

Originally Posted by tvscript124

I lean toward it being a family member too.

I still think it was a neighbor. It would explain so many of the strange things about the case. And naturally if a neighbor was responsible for all of this they wouldn't admit to seeing anything. They would want people to think the Wackers were crazy, it was an added bonus to the harassment.

Of course the Wackers had more than one neighbor. But they only really had one very close one, all the others were a little bit of distance away. A neighbor would not look out of place being seen near the Wackers residence, would not arouse suspicion, and would have an idea about the neighborhood and who was outside when to see anything.

I think someone in that house next door was responsible for this. Not necessarily the whole family but someone. Though we may never know for sure.

[XCalibur]

Originally Posted by tvscript124

For all you people who want to blame the Wackers, that's fine. But I will never believe that they did this. Sorry.

Bottom line is neither of them had any history of mental illness. Nor was any convincing motive ever established for fabricating something like this. And their family would have to have been in on the whole thing too. Because they would have to have made up or fabricated the stakeout incident.

What I wonder about though, is why they did not confront the neighbors about the rock thrown onto the porch. If it was indeed thrown there, there is only so many places it could have come from the neighboring house being one of them. They were all there and there was a strength in numbers so why not go over and at least knock on the door and ask about it?

[TheCars1986]

If these incidents occurred over a 6 month span, I would 100% believe them to be a hoax perpetuated by one or both of the Wackers. Seeing that these incidents were happening spaced out for years, with most of them being reported to the police, I cannot fathom how, even if there was the slightest bit of doubt from one family member, every member of their immediate family would willingly go along with this "bit" if one of them knew or even suspected Dorothy was behind everything.

[bigted12]

Originally Posted by TheCars1986

If these incidents occurred over a 6 month span, I would 100% believe them to be a hoax perpetuated by one or both of the Wackers. Seeing that these incidents were happening spaced out for years, with most of them being reported to the police, I cannot fathom how, even if there was the slightest bit of doubt from one family member, every member of their immediate family would willingly go along with this "bit" if one of them knew or even suspected Dorothy was behind everything.

If it was the whackers doing it to themselves, then it wasn't a "bit" it would have to be mental illness, because to do all that for years, call the cops and try to figure out who did it (when it's you) wouldn't be to have a good time. it would be insanity...


theres a thing called "folie a deux" normally when theres a couple and one of them starts declining mentally, you'd expect the other to notice it and get help... yet often, instead they become the same.

there was an old couple near where my parents live who went like that during the pandemic, they'd order groceries online, things from amazon.. get them then claim they never did, yet the packaging and bags were on top of the trash! they'd dry clothes outside when it snowed, yet inside when it was august...

maybe thats what it was, but whoever it was, it was within the family, didnt they change phone number 5 times, but the "stalker" always knew the number?