Mary Morris murder discussion back on....THIS THREAD ONLY!!

[Labonte18]

Originally Posted by TheCars1986

And if you see someone who you are afraid of, why do you call your friend to tell her about and then tell her that you are going to log off your computer (which according to Laurie was password protected anyway) instead of calling the police?

Remember.. This happened in 2000.. Bit of different times.

I need to read up on this case. Based on the UM episode.. It just seemed way to coincidental for them to not be connected. But, based on some of the things mentioned.. Perhaps.

[TheCars1986]

Originally Posted by Labonte18

Remember.. This happened in 2000.. Bit of different times.

I need to read up on this case. Based on the UM episode.. It just seemed way to coincidental for them to not be connected. But, based on some of the things mentioned.. Perhaps.

Mary called her friend Laurie and told her that she saw what she thought was one of Duane's friends and it creeped her out. She said she was going to go log off of her computer and go home. Laurie found it odd because her computer was password protected and no one would be able to access it without her password. And why would she not call the police if this guy was creeping her out, or she thought she recognized him? I also don't understand why the cops won't release a transcript of the 911 call.

[Labonte18]

Originally Posted by TheCars1986

Mary called her friend Laurie and told her that she saw what she thought was one of Duane's friends and it creeped her out. She said she was going to go log off of her computer and go home. Laurie found it odd because her computer was password protected and no one would be able to access it without her password. And why would she not call the police if this guy was creeping her out, or she thought she recognized him? I also don't understand why the cops won't release a transcript of the 911 call.

"Password protected" doesn't really mean much. The Mary Morris who worked at a bank, the whole "Return to work, log off.." makes a whole lot of sense.. Because, she'd have had her own workstation, she'd have logged into banking software on it.. And there'd be a procedure to shut down. Log out of everything and likely shut the computer down.

The other Mary Morris, who was an NP, and I believe is the one who said that.. It doesn't fit QUITE as well as the other, but.. I can still see it. She worked at a doctors office, HIPAA was a thing, even back then.. She likely would have had a shutdown procedure to get her out of the patient records software and all that.. It doesn't fit as NICELY as the loan manager Mary Morris, but.. I can still see it.

I'd, of course, question why she left the office to go to the drugstore without doing that shutdown procedure. Perhaps, just because of the times. But.. Both of them were in industries with HIGHLY confidential information on computers.. So.. I just can't take a comment like that as anything really telling or unusual. The security procedures from 2000 were pretty strong, but, they don't hold a candle to what happens today.. Data encryption, 2FA logins and all that..

At least.. That's my impression of it.

The part about it being a different time.. That's so far as her not calling the cops. There was someone at a drug store who made her uncomfortable.. And, yes, in today's world, the first thought is "Call the cops, be careful.. If it's nothing, better to be sure than take a chance".. But.. Even back in 2000, there was a bit of the attitude still, which was FAR stronger in the 80's and before, of "Oh, I don't want to be a bother".. Or, feeling bad if you were wasting the time of the police on a giant nothingburger.

Remember, this is before "If you see something, say something"

So.. I just don't read into those two things what you do. Again, not saying who is right.. Just my thoughts.

One thing that I question.. When the nurse Mary Morris called her friend.. How did she call?

It was 2000.. So, cell phones were certainly a thing. And, her being an NP would probably mean she would have either a cell or a pager.. They were obviously much more expensive then.. Remember when it was like $30 for 200 minutes? But.. As an NP, it could have been an office-issued phone.. Who knows.. I assume, because of the conversation "Going back to the office" that was a cell call.

Another thought on that call being a cellular call.. In the early days of cellphones, and.. yes, Y2K was that time, still, even thought they had been around for 15 years.. They were JUST getting into the point where everyone had one.. Having a cell phone could make a woman feel more protected than she is.. "Oh, i've got my phone if something happens".. But..Someone can knock you over the head or otherwise incapacitate you in much shorter a time than you can get the phone out and dial the cops. The fact that she DID manage to call 911, but was unable to articulate what was happening.. Kinda backs that up.

[TheCars1986]

Originally Posted by Labonte18

"Password protected" doesn't really mean much. The Mary Morris who worked at a bank, the whole "Return to work, log off.." makes a whole lot of sense.. Because, she'd have had her own workstation, she'd have logged into banking software on it.. And there'd be a procedure to shut down. Log out of everything and likely shut the computer down.

Laurie said she didn't need to log off the computer, because it was password protected and only Mary would be able to access it with her password. She was confused why Mary was going to do this since she had already left the office after giving Laurie a flu shot earlier in the day.

Originally Posted by Labonte18

I'd, of course, question why she left the office to go to the drugstore without doing that shutdown procedure. Perhaps, just because of the times. But.. Both of them were in industries with HIGHLY confidential information on computers.. So.. I just can't take a comment like that as anything really telling or unusual.

This is why Laurie was so confused, because she had already left the office after giving her a flu shot. It was a Sunday. She had no reason to log off her computer. According to this article, the pharmacy she was shopping at when she called Laurie was 5 minutes away from Laurie's house. Her car was found off of a dirt road going in the opposite direction of where she worked. Once her car was put in gear, the doors automatically locked and could not be open from the outside.

Originally Posted by Labonte18

One thing that I question.. When the nurse Mary Morris called her friend.. How did she call?

She had a cell phone.

Originally Posted by Labonte18

Having a cell phone could make a woman feel more protected than she is.. "Oh, i've got my phone if something happens".. But..Someone can knock you over the head or otherwise incapacitate you in much shorter a time than you can get the phone out and dial the cops. The fact that she DID manage to call 911, but was unable to articulate what was happening.. Kinda backs that up.

How did this person gain access to her vehicle and know the location of where the gun was at?

[Labonte18]

Originally Posted by TheCars1986

Laurie said she didn't need to log off the computer, because it was password protected and only Mary would be able to access it with her password. She was confused why Mary was going to do this since she had already left the office after giving Laurie a flu shot earlier in the day.



This is why Laurie was so confused, because she had already left the office after giving her a flu shot. It was a Sunday. She had no reason to log off her computer. According to this article, the pharmacy she was shopping at when she called Laurie was 5 minutes away from Laurie's house. Her car was found off of a dirt road going in the opposite direction of where she worked. Once her car was put in gear, the doors automatically locked and could not be open from the outside.



She had a cell phone.



How did this person gain access to her vehicle and know the location of where the gun was at?

Again, I just find it fully possible that someone would be required, regardless of the computer being password protected.. To log out and shut down.

Back in 2000.. I can even see it more. Some of those programs used proprietary databases.. Some which would, when portions of it were accessed, lock the database so that a backup would not properly back up the database if it was in use. I remember accounting software packages (Peachtree) that I had to make sure everyone logged out of so that I could get a good backup of them back in the day.

So... There's a good reason why she might have to go back to log out of her computer. The fact that she was returning to the office to log out of it, and let's just assume it's for a valid reason that she needed to. That implies to me, she always intended to go back to the office. I presume, since it was a weekend.. She was probably there just updating charts/billing or something. Left for the pharmacy, intended to go back to the office to do more work.. Perhaps because she was freaked out by the person in the pharmacy.. Just decided to go home.. But.. Still needed to deal with the workstation. Thus, needing to go back by the office.

Being 'password protected' only looks at it from the standpoint of keeping others out. There are plenty of other reasons as to why she might have needed to log out and/or shut down her workstation OUTSIDE of security.. Though.. Security is a dang good reason.. But.. Imagine a doctors office losing all their patient records stored on computer.. They, at least at that time, kept paper records as well, but..

I actually worked in the field a few years before that time (1998) - FWIW.. Never sicker in my life. I despised going to Pediatrician offices. I rarely get sick, but I couldn't stay well the year I worked that job. Our system was proprietary, but, it was built on a Linux backend, which.. Much easier to backup even if files are in use than a windows system.

Just because her friend - or any of us - didn't understand.. Doesn't mean the reasons for her needing to logout weren't valid.

I don't understand how the fuel delivery system works in a jet engine.. Doesn't mean I'm qualified to say someone who works on them doesn't need to do something.

As far as how the person got the gun.. Well.. You assume when you said "How they knew it was there".. We don't know what happened.. So, it's fully possible that Mary pulled it out from under the seat because she was being followed. Perhaps that's the reason she went the opposite direction? She was trying to 'throw a tail'? It's all speculation and.. I can give you opinions and ideas.. Doesn't mean they're right. There's likely one person left alive that knows what happened for certain. And.. Well, it's been 25 years, so.. We don't KNOW there's one person left alive for sure, either.

[mercy1825]

Originally Posted by TheCars1986

Mary called her friend Laurie and told her that she saw what she thought was one of Duane's friends and it creeped her out. She said she was going to go log off of her computer and go home. Laurie found it odd because her computer was password protected and no one would be able to access it without her password. And why would she not call the police if this guy was creeping her out, or she thought she recognized him? I also don't understand why the cops won't release a transcript of the 911 call.

The 911 call? There is most likely very few words spoken. It recorded the sounds of terror, evil, and a live MURDER. Conjecture and speculation pale in comparison to the detective stating how horrific it was.

[TheCars1986]

Originally Posted by mercy1825

The 911 call? There is most likely very few words spoken. It recorded the sounds of terror, evil, and a live MURDER. Conjecture and speculation pale in comparison to the detective stating how horrific it was.

Crystal Spencer's neighbors thought they heard her being tortured and I don't believe her death had anything to do with foul play. Chad Langford, IMO, staged an elaborate suicide after calling in that he was going to investigate an abandoned vehicle. I think Mike O'Mara staged an elaborate suicide. It's not beyond the pale to suggest that it is probable that Mary Morris did the same. I still think she was most likely murdered (as I said on pages back), but am having a hard time coming up with the how this person was able to commandear the car, beat her, gag her, and then shoot her while she was able to call 911.

[mercy1825]

Originally Posted by TheCars1986

Crystal Spencer's neighbors thought they heard her being tortured and I don't believe her death had anything to do with foul play. Chad Langford, IMO, staged an elaborate suicide after calling in that he was going to investigate an abandoned vehicle. I think Mike O'Mara staged an elaborate suicide. It's not beyond the pale to suggest that it is probable that Mary Morris did the same. I still think she was most likely murdered (as I said on pages back), but am having a hard time coming up with the how this person was able to commandear the car, beat her, gag her, and then shoot her while she was able to call 911.

My interpretation of the 911 call is that she had the time to hit the call button then was accosted and the phone was knocked away. It recorded the murder and is chilling, according to the detective who to me seemed experienced and credible. If a detective like him found the call to be chilling, with all of the horrific things he has likely been exposed to, that, and the crime scene investigators conclusions, are all I need to be 98 percent certain this was a brutal murder.

My feeling is when one not considers it possible, but proclaims suicide as likely or probable is patently offensive and disgraceful to A MURDER VICTIM. It's accusing them of a crime against themselves and would likely enrage her loved ones. Extremely distasteful, especially when it's done for shock value, or to get more listeners to one's podcast because of the extreme theory that's so far outside the realm of what's previously been suggested. That's why I was inspired to speak out.

[TheCars1986]

Originally Posted by mercy1825

My interpretation of the 911 call is that she had the time to hit the call button then was accosted and the phone was knocked away. It recorded the murder and is chilling, according to the detective who to me seemed experienced and credible. If a detective like him found the call to be chilling, with all of the horrific things he has likely been exposed to, that, and the crime scene investigators conclusions, are all I need to be 98 percent certain this was a brutal murder.

It doesn't make any sense that a person would have been able to commandeer her vehicle because once it was put into drive, it would auto lock and the only way you could unlock it at that point would be from the inside or with a key. If Mary was creeped out by her killer, she wouldn't have unlocked the door. If she was going back to work to log off of her computer, why did she drive in the opposite direction? How did this person accost her outside of the Eckard store with no witnesses, presuming she would have been screaming and/or putting up a fight or struggling.

Originally Posted by mercy1825

My feeling is when one not considers it possible, but proclaims suicide as likely or probable is patently offensive and disgraceful to A MURDER VICTIM. It's accusing them of a crime against themselves and would likely enrage her loved ones. Extremely distasteful, especially when it's done for shock value, or to get more listeners to one's podcast because of the extreme theory that's so far outside the realm of what's previously been suggested. That's why I was inspired to speak out.

It's so far outside the realm of what's previously been suggested because this case has went unsolved for almost 26 years now. And it wasn't the podcast hosts suggestion of a suicide, it was the belief among some in law enforcement.

[Gumshoe]

To anyone that has been interested in the Two Marys and their murders there is a lot of recent information that is most interesting. It includes recent interviews with most of the people involved including past law enforcement and new detectives. It is on the new Epis app for vertical video streaming. There are 62 mini episodes so far and that may be it (not sure) but it is an eye opener for sure. I think it is highly worth it to access. To get Epis on your mobile device, find the the app on the App store for iOS or google play store for android. It does bother me some that so far this is the only way to access the info but that is the way it is. From experience I wouldn't bother with accessing all of the episodes by using tokens. About 5 of the episodes are free. There is also a way to access it with Google pay or just using ads up to a point. Easiest way is just to pay the membership fee for $9.99 for a week of unlimited and not have the frustration. As you can tell I am no huge fan of this app but wow! The new information is great. The one to look for in the list under true crime is called called "Two Marys" Unfortunately there is one other title that starts with the same name which seems stupid to me. But easy to see the right one But it's all worth the frustration. One example is that the 4 minute phone call by Mike Morris is debunked by new detectives. Also new suspects, Happy looking at the videos.

[mozartpc27]

Originally Posted by TheCars1986

Considering the gun used was the one that she owned and the contents of the 911 call have never been released, I would say it's probable that it was a staged suicide.

Haven't been keeping up with this thread, so all of this is news to me as of today. And I have to say, I never ever would have thought of it - but it certainly does seem to be plausible now that I know about it.

The completed call still troubles me. Did they actually ever find the phone?

[TheCars1986]

Originally Posted by mozartpc27

The completed call still troubles me. Did they actually ever find the phone?

Mary Morris (2nd victim) had a cell phone, and that was what was used to make the 911 call. From my understanding, that phone was still in the car when first responders arrived and found her dead. The weapon was her gun.