Mary Morris murder discussion back on....THIS THREAD ONLY!!

[crystaldawn]

As most of you know years ago the owner of the board was asked by LE to stop the discussion of the two Mary Morris murders since it was an open case. I have asked the owner and he thinks since the request was several years ago it would be okay to open the discussion back up. We do want to put some limits though and the only discussion is to be on this thread (its just one case and there's no need for a bunch of threads to be started anyway) so any other threads on the case will be deleted or merged with this one. Also no attacking of family members as there was some done in the past on here from someone closely involved in the case. We don't need the drama and unwanted attention from the outside when we're just trying to discuss a UM case.

Okay as for my own thoughts on this case, I REALLY want to know what was said on the 911 tape. I think it would give us more clues on who may have been responsible. It was said in the segment hearing it would make your blood run cold so I really want to know what Mary said.

[Hambone2421]

Thanks so much for bringing this one back, Crystaldawn!!!

This one has always been "special" to me as the murders took place less than 15 minutes from where I grew up and about 30 minutes from where I live today.

Let me start from the beginning on this. The segment would lead you to believe that Mary Henderson Morris was killed by accident by the person hired to kill Mary McGinnis Morris. I have no idea if this is true. The segment would also lead you to believe that the only suspects in this case are Mary McGinnis Morris co-worker and her husband, Mike Morris. I'd bet money that one of them are in some roundabout way responsible for this.

However, the phone call is what really "tells the tale" so to speak. Why would Mike Morris call his wife's phone and carry on a 4 minute long phone call with whoever was on the other end of that phone after his wife was dead? Mike has a clear alibi as he was at the movies with his daughter when the murder took place. The theory has been that he hired a hitman and the hitman got the wrong one the first time. On the surface, most people would buy that, however, unless you hire a completely inexperienced idiot, this doesn't make a lot of sense. When a hitman is retained, you give them the parameters of what you are looking to have done, when it needs to be done, how you would prefer it done, etc. You also provide a picture and a schedule of where the person can be so that the hitter doesn't go looking all over town. The two Mary's look nothing alike save the fact that both are Caucasian females. I just don't understand how a hitter does this.

But, on the other hand, Mary McGinnis Morris wedding ring was gone. Generally when a hitman is retained, you request some sort of proof that the deed is done. Her ring was gone, then a year or so later, it is revealed that her daughter, Katy, has the ring. I am in no way implicating or pointing the finger at Katy Morris (she could not have done it as she was with her father at the movies when it occurred). Just merely pointing out that she had her mother's ring after this incident.

The co-worker, who has visited this board numerous times, had quite a few restraining orders taken out on him by members of Mary's family. He would call, email and contact them against their wishes. He claimed he just wanted to clear his name and speak to them but they tell a very different story. Just go back and view the several different threads that he was involved in regarding this case. Mary's daughter Katy and her sister both get into it with him. He also mentions an America's Most Wanted episode that he takes offense to as he says they depict him saying and doing things he did not do. I never saw this episode of AMW. Did anyone here see it?

Mary's best friend, Laurie, was also featured on the broadcast and seemed distraught at the murder. She more or less pointed the finger at the co-worker (she also worked with both of them).

I believe Mike Morris was somehow involved in his wife's murder. Everything points to him hiring someone to kill his wife or having someone kill his wife. Also, Mary was killed with her own gun. It's almost as if her killer knew the gun was in the car and was told to kill her with it to make it look like a suicide. I'd be interested in finding out if large sums of money were ever withdrawn from Mike's account. Could be the payoff for a hit.

Here is a very good rundown of this case.... http://ididitforjodie.com/2013/08/04...f-mary-morris/

[BlueGalexy]

Wow, today has been quite the day for me regarding this board. Three of the cases that always end up on my personal “top cases" list have seen some great discussion today. Thank you crystaldawn for reopening discussions on the Morris murders. Also thanks to Hambone for generating some interesting discussion on the Kerstetter and Flores cases. These three cases are among the ones I most closely follow.

I've also read the “jodie" profile on this case and found it to be very informative. I'll probably have to go back and read it again as it's been a while. I too wish that LE would release that 9-11 call. There seems to be some important evidence contained therein. I personally have a tendency to go back and forth on who I believe is responsible. For the longest time I felt that Mike Morris had his hand in the mix. Then I read the previous thread on this board. Reading some of the more “chaotic" posts made me question if perhaps certain parties were protesting too much. I'll leave that bit of business in the past where it belongs however.

I thought I read recently that LE no longer considers the two Morris cases to be related, which really surprised me. If my memory is correct, I have to wonder how LE arrived at that conclusion. Hopefully my fellow posters can weigh in here because I still believe these two cases are connected.

[LooksLikeCRicci]

Will DEFINITELY be re-watching this one in light of the thread opening up.

I would also like to hear the 911 call. That's been a source of curiosity for quite some time now.

...and I think LE is crazy if they don't think the two crimes are connected. I would love to hear how that conclusion was reached as well...

[BlueGalexy]

I double checked just now to make sure I wasn't full of BS regarding my earlier statement. It seems that the current LE party line is indeed that there's no connection between the two cases.

http://www.chron.com/news/houston-te...ed-1637059.php

[DALLASTEXAN!!]

I could be wrong but it is very possible that the two murders are not related. Houston is such a huge area and full of violent crime. Could UM have seeked this out to add to the mystique? With that said I agree they could be related too. I honestly have a lot more questions than ideas on this one. I think by the time I became a member here this discussion was off limits.

[WishfulDreamer]

I'm glad this thread opened up. I realize this case is very controversial, so I'll try not to be very accusatory. The only thing I feel very strongly about with this case is that the crimes were related. I really don't see how they couldn't be connected.

Hambone, thank you for mentioning that the gun was Mary's. I had no idea. This tells me that the killer had to have known that the gun was there. Who would have known? Her husband, who could have told a hitman. I think that theory is probably the strongest. It is very suspicious to me that she was freaked out when she called her friend, and was so shaken that she was going to return home after turning off her computer at work...only to be abducted and murdered after stopping by to turn off the computer. Someone was likely waiting for her. And if it was a hitman, that would make perfect sense. He very well could have been the one in the story eying her and giving her the creeps.

Without causing too much debate (I know this is a touchy topic), the coworker angle is just too shrouded in mystery. We don't know anything about it beyond contention in the workplace and his own statements on the board. The husband angle seems much more plausible with the given information. A four minute phone call (with whom?), refusing to allow his daughter to be questioned...that doesn't look good. Sorry, a phone does not ring for four minutes without getting voicemail. Also, four minutes is actually quite a long time to listen to ringing. Wouldn't you just get frustrated and hang up? Especially if your wife hasn't been absent for very long at that point?

[SageSlowdive]

I don't pretend to be Cyril Wecht (well not often ) but how can they not think they are related in some way.

What are the chances of this happening randomly? They must be out of this world figures!

[RobinW]

You know, I used to believe in the theory that Mike Morris hired a hitman who accidentally killed the wrong woman, but the more I think about it, his four-minute call to Mary's cell phone almost ranks in the "too stupid to be true" category. If Mike was communicating with the person who killed his wife, why speak with them on Mary's cell phone? Did the killer not have another phone they could use? Surely, Mike and the killer would have known that phone records would be checked and that it would look incredibly suspicious if there was a record of them speaking on Mary's phone for four full minutes after she was murdered. But of course, if this was a hitman who accidentally killed the wrong woman, I wouldn't put it past them to make such a stupid mistake.

[wiseguy182]

Originally Posted by BlueGalexy

Wow, today has been quite the day for me regarding this board.

It was certainly the most active day on the forum I can ever recall.

[Hambone2421]

Originally Posted by RobinW

You know, I used to believe in the theory that Mike Morris hired a hitman who accidentally killed the wrong woman, but the more I think about it, his four-minute call to Mary's cell phone almost ranks in the "too stupid to be true" category. If Mike was communicating with the person who killed his wife, why speak with them on Mary's cell phone? Did the killer not have another phone they could use? Surely, Mike and the killer would have known that phone records would be checked and that it would look incredibly suspicious if there was a record of them speaking on Mary's phone for four full minutes after she was murdered. But of course, if this was a hitman who accidentally killed the wrong woman, I wouldn't put it past them to make such a stupid mistake.

Let's not forget that this murder occurred in 2000. That was right around the time when everyone started carrying a cell phone. I don't think it would have been common knowledge back then to assume phone records and cell phone towers were going to be checked. Plus, let's assume Mike did hire the hitman and told him about the gun in Mary's car, which was used to murder her. Prior to the gunshot, she was gagged and beaten pretty severely. Was this part of the plan? Was it part of the plan to murder her in broad daylight right off of 290 and West Little York (for those non Houstonians, 290 is constantly busy as is every sub street off of it). If it truly was a hit, I believe things were derailed a bit. I doubt the plan was to murder her in her car, in broad daylight. Plus, something happened that enabled her to be able to call 911. A car is a small place. I'm guessing she was able to get inside her car and lock the doors in enough time to call the police.

Also, Laurie Gemmel mentioned that while she was on the phone with Mary, Mary said she spotted someone who was giving her the creeps. She said the person giving her the creeps was a friend of the co-workers that he had brought to a Christmas party a year or so prior to this. Could he have somehow been involved unbeknownst to the co-worker?

Robin, I do agree with you that if you act under the assumption that the hitman got it wrong the first time, you have to throw everything that makes sense out the window, including a completed four minute phone call.

[Hambone2421]

Originally Posted by WishfulDreamer

Hambone, thank you for mentioning that the gun was Mary's. I had no idea. This tells me that the killer had to have known that the gun was there. Who would have known? Her husband, who could have told a hitman. I think that theory is probably the strongest. It is very suspicious to me that she was freaked out when she called her friend, and was so shaken that she was going to return home after turning off her computer at work...only to be abducted and murdered after stopping by to turn off the computer. Someone was likely waiting for her. And if it was a hitman, that would make perfect sense. He very well

This is why in my prior post, I mentioned how things were derailed. My theory is that if Mike hired a hitman, he asked the hitter to make it look like a suicide but all hell broke lose and a fight ensued. It may have been someone Mary knew and tried to speak with her to get her to let her guard down but to no avail. We know Mary was gagged and beaten severely before finally being shot in the head with her own gun. If they truly fought, I also have to assume that some sort of blood, fiber or DNA of the killer may have been under Mary's fingernails or strewn about somewhere in that vehicle. If that was the case and it was checked, clearly the killer was not in the system.

[RobinW]

Originally Posted by Hambone2421

Let's not forget that this murder occurred in 2000. That was right around the time when everyone started carrying a cell phone. I don't think it would have been common knowledge back then to assume phone records and cell phone towers were going to be checked. Plus, let's assume Mike did hire the hitman and told him about the gun in Mary's car, which was used to murder her. Prior to the gunshot, she was gagged and beaten pretty severely. Was this part of the plan? Was it part of the plan to murder her in broad daylight right off of 290 and West Little York (for those non Houstonians, 290 is constantly busy as is every sub street off of it). If it truly was a hit, I believe things were derailed a bit. I doubt the plan was to murder her in her car, in broad daylight. Plus, something happened that enabled her to be able to call 911. A car is a small place. I'm guessing she was able to get inside her car and lock the doors in enough time to call the police.

I don't know, even before cell phones were a thing, I figured it was common knowledge that whenever you made a telephone call of any sort, there would be a record of it. But you know, the more I think about it, maybe that phone call to Mary's cell phone was always part of the original plan.

It's been theorized that the original intention was to stage the scene to make it look like Mary committed suicide. If a hitman really did kill the wrong Mary Morris by mistake, it would be in Mike's best interest to make his wife's death look like a suicide, so that the two crimes don't look related. Maybe Mike was planning to fabricate a story to police about calling Mary and hearing her say she planned to kill herself. He believed that phone records would back up his story, but the problem is that Mary wound up making a frantic call to 911 BEFORE Mike phoned her. Because of this, Mike knows the suicide story won't hold up and now has to explain the call by improvising an unbelievable story about the phone ringing for four straight minutes.

[Hambone2421]

Originally Posted by RobinW

It's been theorized that the original intention was to stage the scene to make it look like Mary committed suicide. If a hitman really did kill the wrong Mary Morris by mistake, it would be in Mike's best interest to make his wife's death look like a suicide, so that the two crimes don't look related. Maybe Mike was planning to fabricate a story to police about calling Mary and hearing her say she planned to kill herself. He believed that phone records would back up his story, but the problem is that Mary wound up making a frantic call to 911 BEFORE Mike phoned her. Because of this, Mike knows the suicide story won't hold up and now has to explain the call by improvising an unbelievable story about the phone ringing for four straight minutes.

Could be. Also the fact that she was beaten and gagged. I don't believe that was part of the original plan either. I do believe that if the hitter did get the wrong Mary the first time, that it was supposed to look like a suicide the second time, but the 911 call and the beaten show that it did not go as planned.

I wonder what prompted her to call 911? On the surface you wouldn't really think about it, but obviously something happened. Was she approached? Attacked? Ran off the road? I just wonder what it was that caused her to make the 911 call and how she was able to do so when she was trapped in an enclosed space (vehicle) with the killer still trying to get in and kill her.

[justins5256]

Originally Posted by RobinW

I don't know, even before cell phones were a thing, I figured it was common knowledge that whenever you made a telephone call of any sort, there would be a record of it. But you know, the more I think about it, maybe that phone call to Mary's cell phone was always part of the original plan.

It's been theorized that the original intention was to stage the scene to make it look like Mary committed suicide. If a hitman really did kill the wrong Mary Morris by mistake, it would be in Mike's best interest to make his wife's death look like a suicide, so that the two crimes don't look related. Maybe Mike was planning to fabricate a story to police about calling Mary and hearing her say she planned to kill herself. He believed that phone records would back up his story, but the problem is that Mary wound up making a frantic call to 911 BEFORE Mike phoned her. Because of this, Mike knows the suicide story won't hold up and now has to explain the call by improvising an unbelievable story about the phone ringing for four straight minutes.

I think you alluded to this earlier, but I just wonder if the whole phone call was ineptitude on the part of Mike and the killer as well. I mean, if we believe the hired hit scenario, the killer was obviously inept enough to fudge the situation by murdering the wrong Mary Morris from the start. The phone call could be more evidence of this disorganization.