Tommy Gibsons's body still missing despite father's conviction

[Clockwork]

Originally Posted by jets4life

There is always the possibility that Larry had more time than 45 minutes to dispose of Tommy's body.



I did not find what Larry did as "weird." Only a father who knew his kid was dead, would call off a search for a toddler, who most assumed was lost, and exposed to the elements. That's not weird, that is the actions of someone who had something to do with the death of his son, and wanted the authorities not to find his body.



Larry killed Tommy. Period.

If you research the case, after the family moved, the wife fled with their other child (the little girl), to an undisclosed location, and contacted Police immediately to tell them the truth- that Larry had killed Tommy in a fit of rage, after he disobeyed Larry. Larry physically abused all his family to the point that they lived in fear. The wife went along with Larry's story, since she was a battered wife.

The little girl had testified that she saw Larry kill Tommy, then disappear with Tommy. Larry received such a light sentence, since the prosecution could not prove it was intentional (it may have been an accident), and did not have a body to confirm what led to Tommy's death. Larry took a plea deal, and only served a couple of years in jail.



It's called "battered wife syndrome." She lied, because she felt Larry was capable of killing her and her daughter, if they told the truth about Tommy initially. My guess is that Larry probably had a psychological hold on his family, and they lived in absolute fear of him. This was revealed in court, and is why the wife was not charged with anything.

This also tells us that the judge didn't buy the story either. Hence the light sentence. And the lack of physical evidence has always been bothersome. I have a friend and a family member as well going through a divorce. There are horrible things their exes are saying about them and writing them down in custody agreements. It is pure fiction, smearing, and it makes you wonder how the heck they can say the things they say to someone they once loved. One of the guys has his ex so hell bent on making him penniless despite already being soon to be married to a very wealthy man.

There is also another factor to this story. Larry and his wife were home that morning, but so was either his brother or her brother (can't remember which). Isn't there some testimony he has to this whole thing? If he saw Tommy that morning wouldn't it negate Larry's wife's testimony. And to me Karen (the daughter) was being coached to say the thing about Tommy just like she was when she claimed she saw two people kidnap him.

It would surprise people, but I have personally spoken to Larry through social media at one point. He forgives his daughter, says they have a good relationship and that even she realizes her mother coached her to say the things she said. I know that is one side to the story, and again I am not saying Larry didn't do this, but the lack of physical evidence is troubling to have even convicted him in the first place. And he can go full OJ on this whole thing, he can admit like OJ practically did that he committed the murders and even reveal where the body is dumped simply because it would be Double Jeopardy to be tried again.

[jets4life]

Originally Posted by Clockwork

This also tells us that the judge didn't buy the story either. Hence the light sentence. And the lack of physical evidence has always been bothersome. I have a friend and a family member as well going through a divorce. There are horrible things their exes are saying about them and writing them down in custody agreements. It is pure fiction, smearing, and it makes you wonder how the heck they can say the things they say to someone they once loved. One of the guys has his ex so hell bent on making him penniless despite already being soon to be married to a very wealthy man.

There is also another factor to this story. Larry and his wife were home that morning, but so was either his brother or her brother (can't remember which). Isn't there some testimony he has to this whole thing? If he saw Tommy that morning wouldn't it negate Larry's wife's testimony. And to me Karen (the daughter) was being coached to say the thing about Tommy just like she was when she claimed she saw two people kidnap him.

It would surprise people, but I have personally spoken to Larry through social media at one point. He forgives his daughter, says they have a good relationship and that even she realizes her mother coached her to say the things she said. I know that is one side to the story, and again I am not saying Larry didn't do this, but the lack of physical evidence is troubling to have even convicted him in the first place. And he can go full OJ on this whole thing, he can admit like OJ practically did that he committed the murders and even reveal where the body is dumped simply because it would be Double Jeopardy to be tried again.

We're not going to agree about this, so I will just leave others to read what has been said about the case outside the sensationalist TV program Unsolved Mysteries:



"Larry's trial commenced on January 18, 1995. In late February, his half-sister, Debbie Calek, provided testimony against him, stating that after Thomas went missing she had received a frantic phone call from Larry in which he confessed to killing Thomas, and telling her he may need money to post bail after his arrest. Calek subsequently claimed that, when Karen and her mother Judy stayed with her at her home in Iowa after the disappearance, she made a comment regarding being frightened about her father "putting her in a big hole" like he had Thomas. During this same stay, Judy alleged that Karen first told her that she had witnessed Larry beating Thomas outside on the day he disappeared.

Karen was the prosecution's star witness in the case, and testified against her father over the course of the six-week trial. The defense suggested that Karen had been influenced to adopt the storyline that her father had beaten and killed Thomas by her mother. Court documents prepared by the district attorney presented the series of events: Larry left the family's residence in Azalea at approximately 11:30 a.m. to go for a jog.Thomas followed after his father, who instructed him to wait for his sister to come out of the house. Spotting a cat nearby, Larry purportedly used a pistol to kill it, assuming it to be a stray. When Thomas curiously approached the dead cat, Larry angrily picked him up and carried him to the family's carport, where he proceeded to slap the child in the face multiple times. After realizing that Karen had observed Larry hitting Thomas from the window, he placed Thomas in his patrol car and drove it behind a woodpile on the property, where he placed the child's body in a plastic bag and hid it in the trunk of his vehicle.

It was theorised by investigators that, after volunteer searchers began looking for Thomas, Larry took the child's body and disposed of it in an area known as Swamp Creek, though his remains were not recovered. Karen claimed that her father threatened her against telling authorities what she had witnessed, and felt unsafe to do so until her mother separated from him and they relocated back to Oregon in 1994"

In March 1995, Larry Gibson was convicted of the manslaughter of Thomas, though he proclaimed innocence throughout and after the trial. His conviction called for fifteen to eighteen months' imprisonment, of which he had served twelve while in police custody leading up to (and during) his trial. He was released from prison in 1996.

source: https://www.newspapers.com/article/t...inel/49968006/


----

Larry Gibson was a man who often beat his children, to the point of death. He was the prime suspect in the disappearance of Tommy Gibson. He was arrested for second degree murder in 1994, after his wife fled from his abuse, and went to law enforcement with his surviving daughter
. Larry Gibson was ultimately convicted of the lesser charge of manslaughter.

In other words, it's the word of Larry Gibson vs three people (his half sister, his only daughter, and his ex-wife).

[Clockwork]

Originally Posted by jets4life

We're not going to agree about this, so I will just leave others to read what has been said about the case outside the sensationalist TV program Unsolved Mysteries:



"Larry's trial commenced on January 18, 1995. In late February, his half-sister, Debbie Calek, provided testimony against him, stating that after Thomas went missing she had received a frantic phone call from Larry in which he confessed to killing Thomas, and telling her he may need money to post bail after his arrest. Calek subsequently claimed that, when Karen and her mother Judy stayed with her at her home in Iowa after the disappearance, she made a comment regarding being frightened about her father "putting her in a big hole" like he had Thomas. During this same stay, Judy alleged that Karen first told her that she had witnessed Larry beating Thomas outside on the day he disappeared.

Karen was the prosecution's star witness in the case, and testified against her father over the course of the six-week trial. The defense suggested that Karen had been influenced to adopt the storyline that her father had beaten and killed Thomas by her mother. Court documents prepared by the district attorney presented the series of events: Larry left the family's residence in Azalea at approximately 11:30 a.m. to go for a jog.Thomas followed after his father, who instructed him to wait for his sister to come out of the house. Spotting a cat nearby, Larry purportedly used a pistol to kill it, assuming it to be a stray. When Thomas curiously approached the dead cat, Larry angrily picked him up and carried him to the family's carport, where he proceeded to slap the child in the face multiple times. After realizing that Karen had observed Larry hitting Thomas from the window, he placed Thomas in his patrol car and drove it behind a woodpile on the property, where he placed the child's body in a plastic bag and hid it in the trunk of his vehicle.

It was theorised by investigators that, after volunteer searchers began looking for Thomas, Larry took the child's body and disposed of it in an area known as Swamp Creek, though his remains were not recovered. Karen claimed that her father threatened her against telling authorities what she had witnessed, and felt unsafe to do so until her mother separated from him and they relocated back to Oregon in 1994"

In March 1995, Larry Gibson was convicted of the manslaughter of Thomas, though he proclaimed innocence throughout and after the trial. His conviction called for fifteen to eighteen months' imprisonment, of which he had served twelve while in police custody leading up to (and during) his trial. He was released from prison in 1996.

source: https://www.newspapers.com/article/t...inel/49968006/


----

Larry Gibson was a man who often beat his children, to the point of death. He was the prime suspect in the disappearance of Tommy Gibson. He was arrested for second degree murder in 1994, after his wife fled from his abuse, and went to law enforcement with his surviving daughter
. Larry Gibson was ultimately convicted of the lesser charge of manslaughter.

In other words, it's the word of Larry Gibson vs three people (his half sister, his only daughter, and his ex-wife).

Oh I get it, I am just posting about the conversation I have had with Larry. I try to look at all sides and on more than one occasion have actually been successful contacting - and having multiple conversations - with people who were on UM. Even suspects like Larry. Other times it has been victims' families. This is why it makes me wonder how much Karen ACTUALLY did see that day or how much she was told to remember. She's 4 at this time, I mean, man, that's clinging to something to have a kid that young be your star witness.

Just another strange thing is why did the wife stay with Larry and then have another child with him afterwards? She had a child with Larry after Tommy disappeared. Also, why did the sister in law not just tell the truth at that time? She wasn't in an abusive relationship by any means.

I think Larry likely did much of what you explained. I just wish it was bundled up in a nice tidy package and proven. 35 years later and there is no body.

[jets4life]

Originally Posted by Clockwork

Oh I get it, I am just posting about the conversation I have had with Larry. I try to look at all sides and on more than one occasion have actually been successful contacting - and having multiple conversations - with people who were on UM. Even suspects like Larry.

In other words, by developing a friendship with the man convicted of killing his child, you no longer have the ability form an impartial opinion on this issue.

[Ray Range]

I still hold the opinion that if you did this to your own child, you wouldn’t be able to write a song about it. I think he’s a weird guy, but did he do this?

[Clockwork]

Originally Posted by jets4life

In other words, by developing a friendship with the man convicted of killing his child, you no longer have the ability form an impartial opinion on this issue.

I wouldn't call a singular conversation on social media several years ago by any means a "friendship". I just call it investigative journalism. That being said there was a convicted and accused murderer from UM that I personally spoke with and I don't think that sort of thing just happens daily. Could anyone imagine Jule Caylor talking to a complete stranger about Dottie? I've posted what Larry told me, that is all. Between that and the lack of physical evidence I would prefer to see a more open and shut case on this issue. Even with Larry's conviction in 1994 it is bothersome that it was based on the testimonies of hearsay. Even if I think he did it, it still doesn't put me at rest to convict someone with so little if any physical evidence. I think Scott Peterson was involved in Lacie's death as well, and while this case had a lot more evidence it was still less physical evidence than I'd like to see. Honestly, I don't think there is anything wrong with that.

[jets4life]

Originally Posted by Clockwork

I wouldn't call a singular conversation on social media several years ago by any means a "friendship". I just call it investigative journalism. That being said there was a convicted and accused murderer from UM that I personally spoke with and I don't think that sort of thing just happens daily. Could anyone imagine Jule Caylor talking to a complete stranger about Dottie? I've posted what Larry told me, that is all. Between that and the lack of physical evidence I would prefer to see a more open and shut case on this issue. Even with Larry's conviction in 1994 it is bothersome that it was based on the testimonies of hearsay. Even if I think he did it, it still doesn't put me at rest to convict someone with so little if any physical evidence. I think Scott Peterson was involved in Lacie's death as well, and while this case had a lot more evidence it was still less physical evidence than I'd like to see. Honestly, I don't think there is anything wrong with that.

When I mention that we agree to disagree, and address the forum in regards to the facts of the case, most people would just leave it at that. You have made us fully aware that one of your hobbies is to contact people that have been on UM (mainly 30+ years ago), in attempts to prod them about cases that happened a generation ago, and in this case, was concluded long ago, with a conviction.

Believe what you wish, and defend Tommy Gibson until the cows come home, and tell us how he was an innocent victim of a miscarriage of justice. It's not going to change my opinion on the case, as I have said before.

FTR....What you consider "Investigative journalism" can be intrepid as "harassment" by some.

[Clockwork]

Originally Posted by jets4life

When I mention that we agree to disagree, and address the forum in regards to the facts of the case, most people would just leave it at that. You have made us fully aware that one of your hobbies is to contact people that have been on UM (mainly 30+ years ago), in attempts to prod them about cases that happened a generation ago, and in this case, was concluded long ago, with a conviction.

Believe what you wish, and defend Tommy Gibson until the cows come home, and tell us how he was an innocent victim of a miscarriage of justice. It's not going to change my opinion on the case, as I have said before.

FTR....What you consider "Investigative journalism" can be intrepid as "harassment" by some.

Larry........

I am not sure you are reading my posts all that closely. I believe he was involved because to me it makes the most sense. This is what I think, not what I know. My idea is that a conviction with so little evidence would bother me. It obviously was conflicting for the judge as well I am guessing, hence the super light sentence. If you ever come in contact with someone from UM and have a conversation with them, please, share it for the rest of us. We are true crime fans and fans of the show and any contact is at the very least intriguing.

[Clockwork]

Originally Posted by Ray Range

I still hold the opinion that if you did this to your own child, you wouldn’t be able to write a song about it. I think he’s a weird guy, but did he do this?

If you are a sociopath you can possibly convince yourself that you didn't do it. I am not sure Donny (Jill and Julie's brother) Hansen would write a song about his sisters I am guessing.

[jets4life]

Originally Posted by Clockwork

My idea is that a conviction with so little evidence would bother me. It obviously was conflicting for the judge as well I am guessing, hence the super light sentence.

This is the perpetual issue with a show such as Unsolved Mysteries. UM has a bad reputation in regards to laying out the facts of a case. Facts usually gave way to sensationalism, and plot lines that would give NBC good ratings.

If one were to ignore Unsolved Mysteries, and look at the actual evidence in the Tommy Gibson case, I am not sure how on Earth anyone could say Larry is innocent, with a straight face. At any rate, the man was convicted by a Judge and jury of killing his only son, and that is really all that matters. Your opinion on the issue does not carry any weight.

Of every single suspect that appeared on UM, Larry stands out for deceptive body language. And what kind of parent would try to call off a search and rescue mission to find their infant son in freezing temperatures (unless of course, he was worried that they would find the body, and charge him with murder)?

If you ever come in contact with someone from UM and have a conversation with them, please, share it for the rest of us. We are true crime fans and fans of the show and any contact is at the very least intriguing.

I will pass, thank you.

Most people tend to frown upon unsolicited messages from random strangers, especially regarding events that happened a generation ago. I've followed this forum long enough to know that Larry is an exception to this rule- he seems to enjoy correspondence regarding his 35 year old case. Most people do not appreciate being questioned about these types of cases, unless they specifically state otherwise.

Finally, I rarely disclose private conversations in general, especially on a public forum.

PS...did you use the alias Clockworkhigh? I only ask, since the name is somewhat similar to yours, and you both post in threads regarding the same cases, albeit a few years apart.

[Clockwork]

Originally Posted by jets4life

This is the perpetual issue with a show such as Unsolved Mysteries. UM has a bad reputation in regards to laying out the facts of a case. Facts usually gave way to sensationalism, and plot lines that would give NBC good ratings.

If one were to ignore Unsolved Mysteries, and look at the actual evidence in the Tommy Gibson case, I am not sure how on Earth anyone could say Larry is innocent, with a straight face. At any rate, the man was convicted by a Judge and jury of killing his only son, and that is really all that matters. Your opinion on the issue does not carry any weight.

Of every single suspect that appeared on UM, Larry stands out for deceptive body language. And what kind of parent would try to call off a search and rescue mission to find their infant son in freezing temperatures (unless of course, he was worried that they would find the body, and charge him with murder)?



I will pass, thank you.

Most people tend to frown upon unsolicited messages from random strangers, especially regarding events that happened a generation ago. I've followed this forum long enough to know that Larry is an exception to this rule- he seems to enjoy correspondence regarding his 35 year old case. Most people do not appreciate being questioned about these types of cases, unless they specifically state otherwise.

Finally, I rarely disclose private conversations in general, especially on a public forum.

PS...did you use the alias Clockworkhigh? I only ask, since the name is somewhat similar to yours, and you both post in threads regarding the same cases, albeit a few years apart.

I personally think he was involved in the murder. I just don't like the lack of physical evidence

[TheCars1986]

A few pages back I posted a screenshot of what I thought was the driveway leading up to Larry Gibson's house, but it was actually a cluster of houses across the street from where the Gibson's lived. Here is the actual driveway, and it is much closer to the road than before. Not saying that I find the random couple driving around rural Oregon looking for a child to kidnap, but I wanted to clear up the confusion.

Also, RobinW does a podcast called "The Path Went Chilly" and they covered this case, and it was unknown to me until I heard it, but Robin says that the cat was actually a neighbor's cat, and she remembers hearing the shot at around 11:30 a.m. on the day that Tommy disappeared, which lines up with Larry's story about shooting at a cat. Larry later approached the neighbor and told her that he thinks it may have been her cat that he shot, and she found the body and it was in fact her cat. She buried it on her property. When the cops found this out, they actually dug up the grave, found the cat, and matched it's wounds with the shell casing found in one of the children's underwear drawers in Larry's house. So this means the shooting of the cat aspect of the story was confirmed. But what I can't wrap my head around is that if Larry shot the cat and somehow also shot Tommy, why wouldn't there be evidence of blood all over the ground near his house, or on Larry, or in his vehicle? And what exactly was his wife and half-brother doing when they heard the shot? Why didn't they come outside to see what was up? According to Larry's daughter years later, she says that Tommy went over to the dead cat and Larry became incensed and beat him to death before putting his body in the trunk of his car and driving away. But where were Larry's wife and half-brother during all of this?