Tommy Gibsons's body still missing despite father's conviction - Sitcoms Online Message Boards

justins5256 · 02-08-2006, 02:58 PM

The story was on again this afternoon. Here is some more information.

MAN CONVICTED IN KILLING; SON'S BODY STILL MISSING
THE SEATTLE TIMES
March 19, 1995
Author: JEFF BARNARDAP
Estimated printed pages: 2

GLENDALE, Ore. - For some residents who have never given up trying to find little Tommy Gibson, there is only way to settle things: tell them where his body is.
"I wish he would own up to it so we could find the child and put him away right," said Ron Marriott, who has been searching for Tommy since the 2 1/2-year-old disappeared in 1991. "That would clean it all up."

The boy's father, Larry Gibson, was convicted of manslaughter Thursday. The former deputy sheriff in this southern Oregon timber town had been charged with murder.

Gibson, 34, claimed he last saw Tommy playing alone in the yard when he went for a jog.

District Attorney Ted Zacher argued that Gibson had a history of abusing his children and killed his son in a rage after the boy disobeyed orders to stay near the house.

A suspect from the beginning, Gibson was arrested in April in Montana, where he moved his family in 1992 and worked as an insurance salesman.

The verdict "doesn't settle anything," said Marriott, a member of the South Douglas County Search & Rescue Team. "It just says more people than us thought he was guilty."

That first night Tommy was missing, Marriott and other rescue members were standing in the snow warming up around a campfire.

Gibson told them to give up their search and go home.

"When the father of a missing child tells you to go home and it's snowing, that's not usual," Marriott said.

At that point, they quit looking for a lost boy and started looking for a body.

They concentrated on a remote area up an old logging road around a creek. State police investigators figured Gibson had dumped his son's body there. The body was never found.

Gibson's wife, Judy, took their three daughters and moved out last year, leaving her estranged husband to move in with his grandmother in Montana.

Then Gibson's 8-year-old daughter, Karen, told authorities in April she had seen her father hit Tommy, load him in the back of his patrol car and drive away the day the boy disappeared. It was the first evidence hard enough to bring an indictment, and Gibson was charged.

Karen, holding a teddy bear while testifying, was the prosecution's star witness in the six-week trial.

Alan Scott, Gibson's lawyer, said Gibson maintains his innocence and he would appeal. "I know he wants the search to continue for Tommy."

The verdict was enough to make Bob Gaedecke, a retired logger who heads the search and rescue team, feel vindicated. As recently as three weeks ago, he was out training his new bloodhound, Bubba, still looking for the boy's body.

"Maybe 'til they put me in a box, I'm going to look for an answer to this puzzle," he said
Edition: WEEKEND
Section: LOCAL NEWS
Page: B2
Index Terms: MURDERS AND ATTEMPTED MURDERS; SENTENCES OF CRIMINALS; MISSING PERSONS
Dateline: GLENDALE, ORE.
Copyright 1995 The Seattle Times
Record Number: 2110935

DarkDante · 02-08-2006, 05:20 PM

I think its important to note that since this article was published Larry Gibson has been released from prison and is persuing a career in music.

Ireneparalegal · 02-08-2006, 06:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkDante

I think its important to note that since this article was published Larry Gibson has been released from prison and is persuing a career in music.

How was it he was convicted of manslaughter instead of murder? Was it a heat of passion incident?

justins5256 · 02-08-2006, 06:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ireneparalegal

How was it he was convicted of manslaughter instead of murder? Was it a heat of passion incident?

This is just a guess, but I got the impression that Gibson didn't mean to kill Tommy. Perhaps they were unable to prove intent, and the charges had to be reduced.

I'll see if I can find more articles about Gibson's conviction.

Awsi Dooger · 02-08-2006, 07:16 PM

I have no doubt Larry Gibson was involved in the disappearance and probable murder. It's incredible to me the typical sentencing guidelines for this type of manslaughter conviction is 16-18 months in that state, according to one website I looked at, and apparently Gibson was sentenced to only 3 years.

However, this case provides further evidence of two things that frustrate me to the point of high decibel disbelief: creative law enforcement and absolutely zero clue regarding probability. The initial theory of the bullet killing the cat then hitting and killing the son is so insanely ludicrous it's mind boggling it could even be theorized, let alone presented as a likely occurence by law enforcement to a national television audience. Just think of the necessary permutations and chain of events that have to line up. What, was this a 4 foot tall cat? The shot would have to be at a downward trajectory. Or else it bounced or richocheted at just the perfect angle to hit the son and kill him. You could literally stand there all your life and fire one shot after another TRYING to make that happen, without success.

I'm a big believer in truth stranger than fiction, but when you have law enforcement dreaming up and embracing scenarios like that it's absolutely scary because those theories are presented to juries by lawyers wearing expensive suits and with all the prerequisite schooling and positive citations. Unless the jurors understand probability and appropriately hear the Monty Python theme song, or similar, jingling in the background when prosecutors present blather like that, you get the inevitable unjust convictions.

Mr. Fuji · 02-09-2006, 04:25 PM

This case fascinated me. I really don't know what to think. While watching the segment, something about Larry told me that he seemed guilty. But the fact that his daughter didn't reveal that she saw her dad beat her brother to death until after she and her mother moved away from him makes the whole thing questionable. It's obvious that the daughter is very impressionable; after all, it seems as if Larry got her to fabricate a story about a yellow truck that was in the area with its license plate taped to the rear window (I personally believe there is no way that she could have the capacity to remember something like that in such detail, along with a great description of the two people who supposedly took her brother away). I think it's very possible that her mom could have helped her fabricate this new story of Larry beating his son to death just because her mom wanted to get back at Larry.

I really think Larry is involved in it somehow, but all the details are so sketchy. This was one of the best segments I've seen in a long time.

CODIS · 02-09-2006, 04:40 PM

Mr. Fuji, If I remember correctly the description of the male and female in the truck(along with the plate in the window) were given by a neighbor that was driving up the street near the Gibson home. This info has come under question do to the fact that the day at which she recalled this inofrmation is disputed. I think the Gibsons daughter coraborated the story after the fact whe t the lil' girl told the soppsed details to her Grandmother. I may be a little off on the details by I believe that's the jist. However the unaccounted time and patrol car mileage, along with the fact that Gibson sr. left the area where his son had supposedly "JUST" gone missing does not look good nor is it adequetly explainable. I don't have children but I went crazy looking for a fish that hid in the rock pile of a fish tank, and that was in a 6 x 2 ft tank!

crystaldawn · 02-09-2006, 04:41 PM

I have a similar article Justin sent to me and the police theorize that Tommy disobeyed Larry when he told him to stay near the house and ventured down the hill because he wanted to see the cat his dad had shot. They believe Larry flew into a rage and killed Tommy and double bagged his body when he buried it as he knew the police dogs wouldn't be able to locate it. They said Larry had a history of abusing his children. I believe someone from the board had also spoke with the K-9 Rescue Team who was involved in helping search for Tommy and they said his clothes were found but no body. They believe that Larry killed Tommy in the kitchen which could be why the daughter claims to have seen it.

I always wondered who "spot in the road" was and what was in that letter.

Ireneparalegal · 02-09-2006, 07:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CODIS

Mr. Fuji, If I remember correctly the description of the male and female in the truck(along with the plate in the window) were given by a neighbor that was driving up the street near the Gibson home. This info has come under question do to the fact that the day at which she recalled this inofrmation is disputed. I think the Gibsons daughter coraborated the story after the fact whe t the lil' girl told the soppsed details to her Grandmother. I may be a little off on the details by I believe that's the jist. However the unaccounted time and patrol car mileage, along with the fact that Gibson sr. left the area where his son had supposedly "JUST" gone missing does not look good nor is it adequetly explainable. I don't have children but I went crazy looking for a fish that hid in the rock pile of a fish tank, and that was in a 6 x 2 ft tank!

i don't mean to make this thread humorous, but your fish comment was so damn funny!!!!!!!!!!!!! I have kids and I would do whatever it took to find them. the thought of my child missing is a nightmare i wouldn't want nor do i like to see any parent go thru. but back to the fish thing. I had a crab that i couldn't find in my aquarium and I was there searching and searching and searching. That stupid little F****** was wedged up inside a rock decoration!!!!

Mr. Fuji · 02-09-2006, 10:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CODIS

Mr. Fuji, If I remember correctly the description of the male and female in the truck(along with the plate in the window) were given by a neighbor that was driving up the street near the Gibson home. This info has come under question do to the fact that the day at which she recalled this inofrmation is disputed. I think the Gibsons daughter coraborated the story after the fact whe t the lil' girl told the soppsed details to her Grandmother. I may be a little off on the details by I believe that's the jist. However the unaccounted time and patrol car mileage, along with the fact that Gibson sr. left the area where his son had supposedly "JUST" gone missing does not look good nor is it adequetly explainable. I don't have children but I went crazy looking for a fish that hid in the rock pile of a fish tank, and that was in a 6 x 2 ft tank!

Well, the neighbor did see the truck and the license plate, but she did not see who was in the truck. Remember, she said that all she saw was silhouettes, and didn't get a good look at who was inside. Larry Gibson said in an interview that his daughter told him that she saw a man with long, scruffy hair and jeans along with a woman who took Tommy. Larry claimed that she also told him that she saw a license plate or a sticker in the rear window of the truck. So, she did remember all those details, which to me seems farcical and quite convenient that she didn't remember them in her interviews with the police, but only after the neighbor claimed to have seen something similar.

Awsi Dooger · 02-10-2006, 05:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by crystaldawn

I have a similar article Justin sent to me and the police theorize that Tommy disobeyed Larry when he told him to stay near the house and ventured down the hill because he wanted to see the cat his dad had shot. They believe Larry flew into a rage and killed Tommy and double bagged his body when he buried it as he knew the police dogs wouldn't be able to locate it. They said Larry had a history of abusing his children. I believe someone from the board had also spoke with the K-9 Rescue Team who was involved in helping search for Tommy and they said his clothes were found but no body. They believe that Larry killed Tommy in the kitchen which could be why the daughter claims to have seen it.

I always wondered who "spot in the road" was and what was in that letter.

Indeed an intriguing case and I'm learning plenty more details from today's posts. Mostly they confuse me. If Larry killed Tommy in the kitchen, where was the wife? Why doesn't she have first hand knowledge and not merely accepting what the daughter says? On the UM segment the home looked like a trailer, and certainly not very large. The segment showed the wife watching TV when Larry returned from his supposed 47 minute jog.

The theory about killing him in the kitchen doesn't ring probable to me. Larry Gibson might have been enraged at the son for leaving the vicinity of the home, but you would think the apex of that anger would occur immediately, out in the yard near the dead cat. Bringing him home should have been enough to chill the anger, unless the brutal blows had already happened outside. I know from psychological studies that parents who hurt/kill a child almost always do it away from view of other children, not in front of them, regardless of age.

Also, where were the clothes found? And what is the "spot in the road" reference?

I've never heard that double bagging theory before. I thought dogs had sniffers 1 million times, or more, superior to ours. You wouldn't think an extra layer of plastic would thwart that. If that's all it takes, no wonder so many bodies are not located.

LooksLikeCRicci · 02-10-2006, 11:09 AM

Yeah, I wasn't sure about the double-bagging either. It's interesting!

crystaldawn · 02-10-2006, 11:25 AM

I believe the person who stated they think Tommy was killed in the kitchen was one of the people handling the search dogs. I agree it isn't very plausible, I just assumed they thought that because maybe Tommy's scent was strong in there. That person also stated they found Tommy's clothes buried but I'm not sure where. I didn't realize search dogs couldn't sniff through multiple bags either but thats what the policeman stated (and remember Larry Gibson WAS a policeman at the time this occurred).

As far as "spot in the road" goes someone anonymously sent the police a letter and signed it "spot in the road". I can't remember if it implicated Larry or not (maybe someone here remembers) but the letter writer seemed to have additional info about the case and RS urged them to come forward. I'm just curious who the letter writer turned out to be. I would have been very interested to read that letter.

Kane · 02-10-2006, 02:22 PM

If Larry Gibson is truly guilty of any involvement in Tommy's disappearance, then he should come clean about it. Maybe it could result in the recovery of Tommy or his remains.

I'm making this suggestion based on the fact that we have double jeopardy laws. Larry Gibson has already been convicted in the case, and served time in jail. Therefore, even if new evidence surfaces, he cannot be retried for the disappearance or death of Tommy.

Just a thought.

Awsi Dooger · 04-11-2007, 05:29 AM

This case was recently uploaded to the taboo site. Gad, our dynoguy pulled no punches in his description of Larry Gibson in the opening segment.

By far the most blunt I've ever seen.

Anyway, I looked at some related threads tonight and saw DarkDante's mention that Gibson turned to a career in music. I checked it out and here's a web page I found. He rambles on and on about his career and his father's background in music but no mention of the little difficulty in Oregon. All he says is, "I came home to Montana in 1996 and moved here to Townsend."

Yeah, after that brief stint in jail.

http://www.awa-awards.org/musician.html

Hey, maybe CRicci can visit and give us a review of his talent.

02-08-2006, 02:58 PM	#1
justins5256 Member Forum 3000 Club Member Join Date: Aug 08, 2002 Posts: 3,866	Tommy Gibsons's body still missing despite father's conviction The story was on again this afternoon. Here is some more information. MAN CONVICTED IN KILLING; SON'S BODY STILL MISSING THE SEATTLE TIMES March 19, 1995 Author: JEFF BARNARDAP Estimated printed pages: 2 GLENDALE, Ore. - For some residents who have never given up trying to find little Tommy Gibson, there is only way to settle things: tell them where his body is. "I wish he would own up to it so we could find the child and put him away right," said Ron Marriott, who has been searching for Tommy since the 2 1/2-year-old disappeared in 1991. "That would clean it all up." The boy's father, Larry Gibson, was convicted of manslaughter Thursday. The former deputy sheriff in this southern Oregon timber town had been charged with murder. Gibson, 34, claimed he last saw Tommy playing alone in the yard when he went for a jog. District Attorney Ted Zacher argued that Gibson had a history of abusing his children and killed his son in a rage after the boy disobeyed orders to stay near the house. A suspect from the beginning, Gibson was arrested in April in Montana, where he moved his family in 1992 and worked as an insurance salesman. The verdict "doesn't settle anything," said Marriott, a member of the South Douglas County Search & Rescue Team. "It just says more people than us thought he was guilty." That first night Tommy was missing, Marriott and other rescue members were standing in the snow warming up around a campfire. Gibson told them to give up their search and go home. "When the father of a missing child tells you to go home and it's snowing, that's not usual," Marriott said. At that point, they quit looking for a lost boy and started looking for a body. They concentrated on a remote area up an old logging road around a creek. State police investigators figured Gibson had dumped his son's body there. The body was never found. Gibson's wife, Judy, took their three daughters and moved out last year, leaving her estranged husband to move in with his grandmother in Montana. Then Gibson's 8-year-old daughter, Karen, told authorities in April she had seen her father hit Tommy, load him in the back of his patrol car and drive away the day the boy disappeared. It was the first evidence hard enough to bring an indictment, and Gibson was charged. Karen, holding a teddy bear while testifying, was the prosecution's star witness in the six-week trial. Alan Scott, Gibson's lawyer, said Gibson maintains his innocence and he would appeal. "I know he wants the search to continue for Tommy." The verdict was enough to make Bob Gaedecke, a retired logger who heads the search and rescue team, feel vindicated. As recently as three weeks ago, he was out training his new bloodhound, Bubba, still looking for the boy's body. "Maybe 'til they put me in a box, I'm going to look for an answer to this puzzle," he said Edition: WEEKEND Section: LOCAL NEWS Page: B2 Index Terms: MURDERS AND ATTEMPTED MURDERS; SENTENCES OF CRIMINALS; MISSING PERSONS Dateline: GLENDALE, ORE. Copyright 1995 The Seattle Times Record Number: 2110935

02-08-2006, 05:20 PM	#2
DarkDante Member Senior Member Join Date: Jul 27, 2002 Posts: 1,569	I think its important to note that since this article was published Larry Gibson has been released from prison and is persuing a career in music.

02-08-2006, 07:16 PM	#5
Awsi Dooger Member Senior Member Join Date: Feb 18, 2003 Location: Miami Posts: 1,537	I have no doubt Larry Gibson was involved in the disappearance and probable murder. It's incredible to me the typical sentencing guidelines for this type of manslaughter conviction is 16-18 months in that state, according to one website I looked at, and apparently Gibson was sentenced to only 3 years. However, this case provides further evidence of two things that frustrate me to the point of high decibel disbelief: creative law enforcement and absolutely zero clue regarding probability. The initial theory of the bullet killing the cat then hitting and killing the son is so insanely ludicrous it's mind boggling it could even be theorized, let alone presented as a likely occurence by law enforcement to a national television audience. Just think of the necessary permutations and chain of events that have to line up. What, was this a 4 foot tall cat? The shot would have to be at a downward trajectory. Or else it bounced or richocheted at just the perfect angle to hit the son and kill him. You could literally stand there all your life and fire one shot after another TRYING to make that happen, without success. I'm a big believer in truth stranger than fiction, but when you have law enforcement dreaming up and embracing scenarios like that it's absolutely scary because those theories are presented to juries by lawyers wearing expensive suits and with all the prerequisite schooling and positive citations. Unless the jurors understand probability and appropriately hear the Monty Python theme song, or similar, jingling in the background when prosecutors present blather like that, you get the inevitable unjust convictions.

02-09-2006, 04:25 PM	#6
Mr. Fuji Member Frequent Poster Join Date: Jul 23, 2004 Posts: 235	This case fascinated me. I really don't know what to think. While watching the segment, something about Larry told me that he seemed guilty. But the fact that his daughter didn't reveal that she saw her dad beat her brother to death until after she and her mother moved away from him makes the whole thing questionable. It's obvious that the daughter is very impressionable; after all, it seems as if Larry got her to fabricate a story about a yellow truck that was in the area with its license plate taped to the rear window (I personally believe there is no way that she could have the capacity to remember something like that in such detail, along with a great description of the two people who supposedly took her brother away). I think it's very possible that her mom could have helped her fabricate this new story of Larry beating his son to death just because her mom wanted to get back at Larry. I really think Larry is involved in it somehow, but all the details are so sketchy. This was one of the best segments I've seen in a long time.

02-09-2006, 04:40 PM	#7
CODIS Member Occasional Poster Join Date: May 02, 2005 Posts: 58	Mr. Fuji, If I remember correctly the description of the male and female in the truck(along with the plate in the window) were given by a neighbor that was driving up the street near the Gibson home. This info has come under question do to the fact that the day at which she recalled this inofrmation is disputed. I think the Gibsons daughter coraborated the story after the fact whe t the lil' girl told the soppsed details to her Grandmother. I may be a little off on the details by I believe that's the jist. However the unaccounted time and patrol car mileage, along with the fact that Gibson sr. left the area where his son had supposedly "JUST" gone missing does not look good nor is it adequetly explainable. I don't have children but I went crazy looking for a fish that hid in the rock pile of a fish tank, and that was in a 6 x 2 ft tank!

02-09-2006, 04:41 PM	#8
crystaldawn Member Forum 4000 Club Member Join Date: Dec 17, 2002 Location: Illinois Posts: 4,261	I have a similar article Justin sent to me and the police theorize that Tommy disobeyed Larry when he told him to stay near the house and ventured down the hill because he wanted to see the cat his dad had shot. They believe Larry flew into a rage and killed Tommy and double bagged his body when he buried it as he knew the police dogs wouldn't be able to locate it. They said Larry had a history of abusing his children. I believe someone from the board had also spoke with the K-9 Rescue Team who was involved in helping search for Tommy and they said his clothes were found but no body. They believe that Larry killed Tommy in the kitchen which could be why the daughter claims to have seen it. I always wondered who "spot in the road" was and what was in that letter.

02-10-2006, 11:09 AM	#12
LooksLikeCRicci Likes to live in a clean house Moderator Forum 4000 Club Member Join Date: Nov 27, 2005 Posts: 4,050	Yeah, I wasn't sure about the double-bagging either. It's interesting!

02-10-2006, 11:25 AM	#13
crystaldawn Member Forum 4000 Club Member Join Date: Dec 17, 2002 Location: Illinois Posts: 4,261	I believe the person who stated they think Tommy was killed in the kitchen was one of the people handling the search dogs. I agree it isn't very plausible, I just assumed they thought that because maybe Tommy's scent was strong in there. That person also stated they found Tommy's clothes buried but I'm not sure where. I didn't realize search dogs couldn't sniff through multiple bags either but thats what the policeman stated (and remember Larry Gibson WAS a policeman at the time this occurred). As far as "spot in the road" goes someone anonymously sent the police a letter and signed it "spot in the road". I can't remember if it implicated Larry or not (maybe someone here remembers) but the letter writer seemed to have additional info about the case and RS urged them to come forward. I'm just curious who the letter writer turned out to be. I would have been very interested to read that letter.

02-10-2006, 02:22 PM	#14
Kane Member Forum 3000 Club Member Join Date: Mar 07, 2001 Location: MA, United States Posts: 3,367	If Larry Gibson is truly guilty of any involvement in Tommy's disappearance, then he should come clean about it. Maybe it could result in the recovery of Tommy or his remains. I'm making this suggestion based on the fact that we have double jeopardy laws. Larry Gibson has already been convicted in the case, and served time in jail. Therefore, even if new evidence surfaces, he cannot be retried for the disappearance or death of Tommy. Just a thought.

04-11-2007, 05:29 AM	#15
Awsi Dooger Member Senior Member Join Date: Feb 18, 2003 Location: Miami Posts: 1,537	This case was recently uploaded to the taboo site. Gad, our dynoguy pulled no punches in his description of Larry Gibson in the opening segment. By far the most blunt I've ever seen. Anyway, I looked at some related threads tonight and saw DarkDante's mention that Gibson turned to a career in music. I checked it out and here's a web page I found. He rambles on and on about his career and his father's background in music but no mention of the little difficulty in Oregon. All he says is, "I came home to Montana in 1996 and moved here to Townsend." Yeah, after that brief stint in jail. http://www.awa-awards.org/musician.html Hey, maybe CRicci can visit and give us a review of his talent.