Dave Bocks

[TheCars1986]

I'm through four episodes of Accused, and the idea that Dave Bocks was killed because he was a potential whistleblower is patently absurd. NLO was being sued by widows of workers who died from cancer two years before Dave's death. There were multiple safety issues that were raised throughout the decades preceding Dave's death. Locals may not have known exactly what Fernald was, but there were articles (several of them locally) written in the decades prior to Dave's death with headlines such as, "Nuclear waste at Ohio plant manages to keep low profile." Harry Easterling says in the UM segment:

Dave was a fairly quiet guy, but if you worked on a job, and it was high radiation level, Dave would tell you, ‘You know, that particular dust collector is fairly radioactive, so watch yourself,’ or, ‘That pump has a certain kind of acid in it so be careful when you work on it.

Does that sound like someone who was ready to blow the roof off of safety violations in the plant, or just a guy looking out for a fellow coworker? Much of the podcast has been about how nearly impossible it would have been for Dave to have jumped into the furnace to commit suicide because the opening to get in was very small, and the furnace tank itself was only 4 feet deep. They also talked to former plant workers who said they would throw their apple cores and pieces of watermelon into the furnace and because of the moisture on the fruit, it would cause loud shotgun sounding like explosions. The host brings up a very solid point: if an apple core could cause such a loud explosion, a human body would probably be much worse. But what is ignored is that also applies to someone lowering an unconscious or dead Dave into the furnace. The body would have reacted the same way. The podcast also says that there were two temperature drops within 30 minutes of each other. Look at this picture:



That is an investigator standing in the opening (that would have been "open" even though the lid was closed; the lid did not fully enclose the opening inside the furnace) to the furnace. It looks like Dave could have jumped or fallen in. I don't want to sound too graphic, but since the tank was only 4 feet deep, I wonder if the first dip in the temperature was half of his body, and when that was completely incinerated, the other dip was the rest of his body.

[Allierain]

Originally Posted by TheCars1986

I'm through four episodes of Accused, and the idea that Dave Bocks was killed because he was a potential whistleblower is patently absurd. NLO was being sued by widows of workers who died from cancer two years before Dave's death. There were multiple safety issues that were raised throughout the decades preceding Dave's death. Locals may not have known exactly what Fernald was, but there were articles (several of them locally) written in the decades prior to Dave's death with headlines such as, "Nuclear waste at Ohio plant manages to keep low profile." Harry Easterling says in the UM segment:



Does that sound like someone who was ready to blow the roof off of safety violations in the plant, or just a guy looking out for a fellow coworker? Much of the podcast has been about how nearly impossible it would have been for Dave to have jumped into the furnace to commit suicide because the opening to get in was very small, and the furnace tank itself was only 4 feet deep. They also talked to former plant workers who said they would throw their apple cores and pieces of watermelon into the furnace and because of the moisture on the fruit, it would cause loud shotgun sounding like explosions. The host brings up a very solid point: if an apple core could cause such a loud explosion, a human body would probably be much worse. But what is ignored is that also applies to someone lowering an unconscious or dead Dave into the furnace. The body would have reacted the same way. The podcast also says that there were two temperature drops within 30 minutes of each other. Look at this picture:



That is an investigator standing in the opening (that would have been "open" even though the lid was closed; the lid did not fully enclose the opening inside the furnace) to the furnace. It looks like Dave could have jumped or fallen in. I don't want to sound too graphic, but since the tank was only 4 feet deep, I wonder if the first dip in the temperature was half of his body, and when that was completely incinerated, the other dip was the rest of his body.

Ha, wait till you get to episode 6. It’s fun. Poor DC Cole can’t get a break, in fact a joke made about him in this forum is quoted.

If you remove the Fernald story from the equation you find that there is absolutely nothing at all that points to whistleblowing. The night Dave Bocks disappeared was totally normal. The only report otherwise came from that witness who claimed to see Dave having a private conversation with someone in a truck. To be honest with you I can’t see how someone standing in the early morning darkness, 50-60 feet or more away, can clearly see who is sitting in a truck doing what. Did the police not follow up with this witness? Who did the truck belong to, was it company or personal? Regarding family, co-workers, and friends, none of them ever reported that Dave had complained about his job or any safety issues. There were no months of investigation like Karen Silkwood. No comments and no concerns.

There is something about the apple core thing that bothers me. If apple cores made little explosions when dropped in the molten salt, how on earth would one be able to lower in a human body without creating a loud noise or a huge mess?

[TheCars1986]

Finished the podcast. The conclusion they reach (and try to force the listener into accepting) is that Dave Bocks was murdered by someone for either finding illicit drug use/dealings at the plant or because he was a stickler to the rules and got someone suspended for sleeping on the job. But there is a zero percent chance that Dave Bocks was murdered, and IMO, the detective interviewed on the podcast lays out exactly how impossible it would have been.

First, the lift that UM made it seem like someone could have lowered Dave into the furnace with only moved in two directions: down to where it would be fitted to the lid and then moved to the side where the furnace would be open. But once the lid was opened, the lift wouldn't be able to operate to lower something unless the lid was closed again. And that three wire loop that UM made a big deal about? That was from an experiment that an engineer at the plant had done a month before Dave's death. They even produced a memo (with a date of May 2nd) describing the experiment as "a heat-treat test involving an 11-inch-diameter ingot, one or two sections of twisted bailing wire, each section measuring about 36 inches in length, and one or two sections of a thermocoupler, length undefined." Unless NLO was savvy enough to forge and produce this document in an effort to cover up Dave's murder, I think it's safe to say that it had absolutely nothing to do with Dave's death. He was not lowered into the furnace. And even if someone killed him or knocked him unconscious, and then operated the lift to open the lid to the furnace, the police said that the furnace was too hot for anyone to have gotten close enough to throw or dump a body into there. He either committed suicide or accidentally fell in.

[Allierain]

I apologize ahead of time for this, I do not mean to come across as disrespectful. But the problem I have with the suicide theory in this case is the method. Why would Bocks choose such a painful and potentially drawn-out method to end his life? Not to mention the discomfort getting close to the tank. If the tank was too hot for people to stand around it long, how on earth could Bocks have done it too?

[TheCars1986]

Originally Posted by Allierain

I apologize ahead of time for this, I do not mean to come across as disrespectful. But the problem I have with the suicide theory in this case is the method. Why would Bocks choose such a painful and potentially drawn-out method to end his life? Not to mention the discomfort getting close to the tank. If the tank was too hot for people to stand around it long, how on earth could Bocks have done it too?

The police speculated that he started out from a distance away from it and took off running and jumped into it. If that picture of the furnace I posted above was taken from above, then that means Dave could have jumped from that spot feet first into the furnace. I also still would not rule out an accident.

[Mike82]

Originally Posted by Allierain

I apologize ahead of time for this, I do not mean to come across as disrespectful. But the problem I have with the suicide theory in this case is the method. Why would Bocks choose such a painful and potentially drawn-out method to end his life? Not to mention the discomfort getting close to the tank. If the tank was too hot for people to stand around it long, how on earth could Bocks have done it too?

I don’t find it disrespectful at all. We don’t know him or his situation, so at this point everyone is making educated guesses. Personally, I’m on the fence about it.

If it was a suicide, my assumption is that he may have been thinking less about how horrific the method was and more about the certainty of it. People have survived suicide attempts under near-impossible circumstances, but once someone enters that furnace, there is no chance of survival.

I used to work at a college where we had a blind, middle-aged student who required accommodations. I spoke with him once and learned that he had shot himself in the head and survived, but lost his vision entirely. I imagine Dave may have wanted to avoid a similar outcome.

[freakbook]

Originally Posted by Allierain

I apologize ahead of time for this, I do not mean to come across as disrespectful. But the problem I have with the suicide theory in this case is the method. Why would Bocks choose such a painful and potentially drawn-out method to end his life? Not to mention the discomfort getting close to the tank. If the tank was too hot for people to stand around it long, how on earth could Bocks have done it too?

Originally Posted by TheCars1986

The police speculated that he started out from a distance away from it and took off running and jumped into it. If that picture of the furnace I posted above was taken from above, then that means Dave could have jumped from that spot feet first into the furnace. I also still would not rule out an accident.

I agree with Allierain. While I can't speak for Dave Bocks, or know what was going on in his head, having a running start to jump into a boiling hot furance seems bizarre when there are easier methods of suicide.

I also find it strange for him to show up to work only to have a burning desire to run and jump into a boiling hot furance. If he was feeling that bad then why show up to work? Why not just take his own life elsewhere?

I'm not sure I buy him purposefully jumping into the furnace.

[TheCars1986]

The cops did a pretty thorough job of investigating homicide, IMO. They inspected the crane that was used to lift the furnace, they determined that no human being could have gotten close enough to the furnace to where they would have been able to dump Dave's body in, and there really wasn't anything concrete that they could have gone on.

[freakbook]

Originally Posted by TheCars1986

The cops did a pretty thorough job of investigating homicide, IMO. They inspected the crane that was used to lift the furnace, they determined that no human being could have gotten close enough to the furnace to where they would have been able to dump Dave's body in, and there really wasn't anything concrete that they could have gone on.

If someone was wearing a kiln/furnace suit couldn't they get close enough to dump his body?

[TheCars1986]

Originally Posted by freakbook

If someone was wearing a kiln/furnace suit couldn't they get close enough to dump his body?

The detective interviewed on the podcast said it was impossible for someone to have gotten close enough to dump another person in because the heat would have been unbearable, and not to mention if an apple core caused a huge explosion what a human body could possibly do to someone standing nearby. The logistics of operating a crane to lower him in would have been impossible due to the way the crane was operated. It only could open the furnace lid and move it to the side, and then the reverse motion could be done to close the furnace lid and lift back up.

[Mike82]

Originally Posted by freakbook

If someone was wearing a kiln/furnace suit couldn't they get close enough to dump his body?

Nobody else seems to have thought of it but it should be obvious that not only were there plenty of suits available, many (most?) of the workers would be trained in furnace safety and how to use one.

I wonder perhaps if the crane can be added to my recent thread about red herrings that people tend to focus on but are irrelevant to the case at hand.

[TheCars1986]

Originally Posted by Mike82

Nobody else seems to have thought of it but it should be obvious that not only were there plenty of suits available, many (most?) of the workers would be trained in furnace safety and how to use one.

From the detective interviewed on the podcast:

Okay. They couldn’t carry him up there. It was too hot. Nobody could get that close to put him in there. That’s the thing. That was the main thing that we were questioning, how could anybody put him in there? They don’t have heat-resistant suits at Fernald to get close enough to that. There’s just -- nobody could have carried him in. That space was so close. If they put him in there, it had to splash because what happens, it’s just like if you have a grease -- a skillet with grease on it. You throw some water on it, it pops, and it splatters all over. That’s what happens because the workers used to take watermelons, you know, pieces of a watermelon and throw them in, and boom, they would explode. That would -- a human body is going to do the same. So if somebody was that close to do that, they would have been burned, if they could have gotten that close, and they couldn’t. It was just too hot.

I can't think of any reason why this man would be lying about any of this.

[freakbook]

Originally Posted by Mike82

Nobody else seems to have thought of it but it should be obvious that not only were there plenty of suits available, many (most?) of the workers would be trained in furnace safety and how to use one.

I wonder perhaps if the crane can be added to my recent thread about red herrings that people tend to focus on but are irrelevant to the case at hand.

Exactly. And with the furnace being on I'm sure workers in the area were wearing them.

Originally Posted by TheCars1986

From the detective interviewed on the podcast:



I can't think of any reason why this man would be lying about any of this.

This detective confuses me. He's saying they don't have heat suits that can withstand the furnace temperature so nobody can get close, but Dave Bocks can somehow run up and jump in with the heat not being a problem?

Also, couldn't the cover could have been partially on the furnace if he was put in obstructing a good chunk of the splash? If a person was wearing a klin suit then I'm sure they could've moved in time. (yes, im ignoring his statement about them not having suits that can't with stand the furnace heat)

Bock's co-worker also said that he saw his keys when he was leaving and they somehow ended up in the furnace.

For the record I don't know if Dave was murdered. However, I'm not fully convinced of the detectives theory.

[TheCars1986]

Originally Posted by freakbook

This detective confuses me. He's saying they don't have heat suits that can withstand the furnace temperature so nobody can get close, but Dave Bocks can somehow run up and jump in with the heat not being a problem?

From my understanding these steps were from a distance away from the opening in the furnace (the photo taken of the furnace I posted above would be from this vantage point). I think he was saying that it was possible that someone could have jumped in to the furnace from these steps as he says in the podcast:

There were steps going up at the end of the salt furnace. What we determined that he wanted to commit suicide. He had to get back, run up those steps, and either jump or dive in that small opening.

I know this sounds farfetched, but his point was that it would have been impossible for another person to have essentially chucked Dave's body into that small opening because the steps were a distance away to where a human couldn't have simply tossed another human into that small opening and that if they had gotten close enough to where they could have thrown his body in, they would have gotten seriously injured or died as well.

Originally Posted by freakbook

Also, couldn't the cover could have been partially on the furnace if he was put in obstructing a good chunk of the splash? If a person was wearing a klin suit then I'm sure they could've moved in time. (yes, im ignoring his statement about them not having suits that can't with stand the furnace heat)

The furnace was 4' tall, and the steps that workers used to work it were on an elevated platform from a distance away. It would have been impossible for someone to have thrown a human being into that small opening. Also impossible to have opened the lid with the lift and then used the lift to lower the body in; the lift was inoperable once the lid was opened and the only way you could operate it again was to close the lid. There is literally no scenario that is possible that involves foul play.

Originally Posted by freakbook

Bock's co-worker also said that he saw his keys when he was leaving and they somehow ended up in the furnace.

I've always wondered if Dave had two sets of keys; the ones found in the furnace that went to his vehicle and his house and another set used exclusively at work.

[freakbook]

Originally Posted by TheCars1986

From my understanding these steps were from a distance away from the opening in the furnace (the photo taken of the furnace I posted above would be from this vantage point). I think he was saying that it was possible that someone could have jumped in to the furnace from these steps as he says in the podcast:



I know this sounds farfetched, but his point was that it would have been impossible for another person to have essentially chucked Dave's body into that small opening because the steps were a distance away to where a human couldn't have simply tossed another human into that small opening and that if they had gotten close enough to where they could have thrown his body in, they would have gotten seriously injured or died as well.



The furnace was 4' tall, and the steps that workers used to work it were on an elevated platform from a distance away. It would have been impossible for someone to have thrown a human being into that small opening. Also impossible to have opened the lid with the lift and then used the lift to lower the body in; the lift was inoperable once the lid was opened and the only way you could operate it again was to close the lid. There is literally no scenario that is possible that involves foul play.



I've always wondered if Dave had two sets of keys; the ones found in the furnace that went to his vehicle and his house and another set used exclusively at work.

Couldn't they just drop him near the opening and then use a long tool to finish shoving him in? Also if they were wearing a klin suit I'm sure they had enough time to put him in before they got injured

It seems really far-fetched that Dave would walk/run through an extremely hot furnace just to possibly get his body down a tiny opening. I can imagine someone going through all of this trouble to hide something. Not just take take their own life which could've been done with less effort