Volume 5 Episode 1: Park Bench Murders

[TheCars1986]

https://unsolved.com/gallery/park-bench-murders/

Probably one of the best segments the new reboot has done. An actual solvable mystery. One weird thing about the write up on the case is that Kate was the one who initiated contact with Carnell saying that it was "important", but the actual segment itself says Carnell was the one who texted Kate first. Either way, I don't think the meeting was anything too serious and I think the most likely explanation was that Carnell was going to tell her about possibly getting back together with his ex girlfriend and wanted to gauge her reaction.

I do not think this was some random racist hate crime. There is a 14 minute window where these murders have to have occurred and the odds that some random racist is driving by and just so happens to look over and see a black guy and white woman sitting on a park bench and then decides to murder them...in an area 10 miles west of Cleveland where there was exactly one reported hate crime in 2019...that absolutely did not happen. The segment also hinted at possible gang activity, which is more plausible, but IMO, not likely. The only evidence of gang involvement was some graffiti found near where the murders were committed on a bridge.

I personally think Kate was the target, and Carnell was at the wrong place at the wrong time. Someone followed her from the gym and saw her meeting with Carnell and went into a rage and shot both of them. I know people think its odd that the roofer who was in the parking lot at the time of the murders (police ruled him out based off of cell phone activity that showed him working during the time frame of the murders), but if he was immersed in his phone listening to music, I don't think it's that too far out of the ordinary. Also, it wasn't really shown on the segment, but where the bench was to the water, there was about a 4-5 foot drop down an embankment. Someone could have easily crouched down and walked along the water's edge and have evaded detection.

[Hambone2421]

Originally Posted by TheCars1986

https://unsolved.com/gallery/park-bench-murders/

Probably one of the best segments the new reboot has done. An actual solvable mystery. One weird thing about the write up on the case is that Kate was the one who initiated contact with Carnell saying that it was "important", but the actual segment itself says Carnell was the one who texted Kate first. Either way, I don't think the meeting was anything too serious and I think the most likely explanation was that Carnell was going to tell her about possibly getting back together with his ex girlfriend and wanted to gauge her reaction.

I do not think this was some random racist hate crime. There is a 14 minute window where these murders have to have occurred and the odds that some random racist is driving by and just so happens to look over and see a black guy and white woman sitting on a park bench and then decides to murder them...in an area 10 miles west of Cleveland where there was exactly one reported hate crime in 2019...that absolutely did not happen. The segment also hinted at possible gang activity, which is more plausible, but IMO, not likely. The only evidence of gang involvement was some graffiti found near where the murders were committed on a bridge.

I personally think Kate was the target, and Carnell was at the wrong place at the wrong time. Someone followed her from the gym and saw her meeting with Carnell and went into a rage and shot both of them. I know people think its odd that the roofer who was in the parking lot at the time of the murders (police ruled him out based off of cell phone activity that showed him working during the time frame of the murders), but if he was immersed in his phone listening to music, I don't think it's that too far out of the ordinary. Also, it wasn't really shown on the segment, but where the bench was to the water, there was about a 4-5 foot drop down an embankment. Someone could have easily crouched down and walked along the water's edge and have evaded detection.

During the segment, did you notice how when they discuss the hate crime angle, gang possibility, Nell's ex gf and a few other suspects, they always gave a specific reason for why each one did not fit.....except for her ex boyfriend. Her sister mentioned that police said he was at a barber shop but she even says that she didn't know if they had video on him or not. LE did not even comment on him during the segment. I wonder if there could be something more there.

I think this case will eventually be solved. People talk. I agree that this was not random. This was planned. Whoever killed them will say something one day and someone will cash in on that 100k reward.

[TheCars1986]

Originally Posted by Hambone2421

During the segment, did you notice how when they discuss the hate crime angle, gang possibility, Nell's ex gf and a few other suspects, they always gave a specific reason for why each one did not fit.....except for her ex boyfriend. Her sister mentioned that police said he was at a barber shop but she even says that she didn't know if they had video on him or not. LE did not even comment on him during the segment. I wonder if there could be something more there.

Kate's ex-boyfriend would be my #1 suspect in this case. It was glossed over quickly, but apparently the police were able to determine that he was in her apartment the night before the murders. Also left out of the episode was that a family member of Kate's went to his house to inform him that he was not welcome at her funeral, the family member claims that they saw a handgun sitting on a table as they were having that conversation at his front door.

[TMC]

Unsolved Mysteries: Why Are There No Suspects In The Park Bench Murder?

Unsolved Mysteries explores the inexplicable case of the Park Bench Murders, which is not only unsolved, but still has no viable suspects.

[blacksymbiote]

Originally Posted by Hambone2421

During the segment, did you notice how when they discuss the hate crime angle, gang possibility, Nell's ex gf and a few other suspects, they always gave a specific reason for why each one did not fit.....except for her ex boyfriend. Her sister mentioned that police said he was at a barber shop but she even says that she didn't know if they had video on him or not. LE did not even comment on him during the segment. I wonder if there could be something more there.

I think this case will eventually be solved. People talk. I agree that this was not random. This was planned. Whoever killed them will say something one day and someone will cash in on that 100k reward.

Proving he was at this barber shop should have been fairly easy if they asked employees and checked the appointment logs. Also, the police dash should have picked up this ex's car as well. Plus, to get away unseen, this person would likely be on foot or bike since the roofer would notice another vehicle pull in. This just feels like a planned random murder akin to how zodiac started.

[TheCars1986]

Originally Posted by blacksymbiote

Proving he was at this barber shop should have been fairly easy if they asked employees and checked the appointment logs. Also, the police dash should have picked up this ex's car as well. Plus, to get away unseen, this person would likely be on foot or bike since the roofer would notice another vehicle pull in. This just feels like a planned random murder akin to how zodiac started.

The police dash camera could have picked up the ex's car, but I don't think the killer would have to have been on foot or bike to get away unseen. Had they driven past the parking lot where the victim's cars were parked, there were multiple places to pull over down the road, where they could have approached from the left and exited the same way back to their vehicle.

[Labonte18]

Originally Posted by blacksymbiote

Proving he was at this barber shop should have been fairly easy if they asked employees and checked the appointment logs. Also, the police dash should have picked up this ex's car as well. Plus, to get away unseen, this person would likely be on foot or bike since the roofer would notice another vehicle pull in. This just feels like a planned random murder akin to how zodiac started.

I mostly agree. You can bet money that they've tracked as many of the cars that went by the cruiser running radar as they could. Since they saw both Nell and Kate.. If someone was following either, they would have passed the cruiser.

Originally Posted by TheCars1986

The police dash camera could have picked up the ex's car, but I don't think the killer would have to have been on foot or bike to get away unseen. Had they driven past the parking lot where the victim's cars were parked, there were multiple places to pull over down the road, where they could have approached from the left and exited the same way back to their vehicle.

Well.. if they parked and had to walk up the road.. They were on foot.

Doesn't mean they had no vehicle, just that they approached the crime scene on foot or bike. Think you're taking that just a bit TOO literally.

I lean towards random on this. The police cruiser running radar is an invaluable piece of evidence. While it doesn't tell us who did it. It does show us that anyone who would have been on the police radar to commit the crime.. Didn't follow Kate or Nell. Radar perhaps being a poor choice of words to use here.

Something that does sit wrong with me is the theory that the killer used a silencer. That's.. It's not like the movies. Those things are NOT easy to get your hands on, and there's a ton of paperwork involved. All that paper.. Leaves a trail.

Now, of course, you can MAKE a silencer.. But..

So.. That links back to the guy working in his truck.. Now, the cops cleared him and.. Who am I to argue with that.. Though.. I'd love to know that they did a GSR swab on him that came back clean. That'd probably be enough for me to agree he wasn't involved.

Seems REALLY odd he wouldn't have seen or heard anything. And, if it was him.. Well, that'd likely be random as no one has been able to link him to either Nell or Kate.

A possibility.. Maybe one of the suspects that have been cleared paid someone. So.. In that sense, it's both random and it isn't. Because, the person who pulled the trigger would, from the outside, look like a random person. So, i'll leave that possibility open. Whoever hired said theoretical person would also make sure that they had a strong alibi..


And, just as a side note.. Boo on the new UM.. This was the ONLY case worth a damn in this set of episodes. Look.. I love the Roswell story and all that, but.. I'll say it again.. With the limited number of episodes, you need to focus on things that could possibly be solved. This case is the only one like that.


One other note here. Wonder if they searched that river for the gun? If this really were a hit for hire. The gun likely would have been dumped immediately. And.. The river would be a good place for it. Of course, we could also argue that any pro hitman worth his salt wouldn't dump the gun at the crime scene.

[Charlie99909]

Originally Posted by TheCars1986

the police were able to determine that he was in her apartment the night before the murders

Just by coincidence. Just by coincidence.

[James T]

I don't necessarily believe he was the target as claimed, another possibility is it was an attempt at sexual assault/rape & in those cases the male assailant usually dispatches the male first, so he can do as he pleases to the female-before murdering them as well. It is possible this person had seen her in that spot at the park regularly-noting her times/movements & decided to ambush her that day, then finds her with the guy.

Why is he meeting her in a park, when he is supposed to be at a family get-together? That makes no sense.

Like others here I feel that although his ex partners gun didn't match, it is still likely to be an ex of hers-this is far more the way a jealous man reacts than a jealous woman.

His family seemed to have no rational thinking-trying to paint it as some random KKK member stumbled upon them & couldn't contain his rage & even pointing the finger at the guy doing his paperwork there & claiming he couldn't have failed to hear anything-even though the perpetrator used a silencer & why would he still be sitting there after the bodies were discovered if he was the culprit?

[James T]

I don't necessarily believe he was the target as claimed, another possibility is it was an attempt at sexual assault/rape & in those cases the male assailant usually dispatches the male first, so he can do as he pleases to the female-before murdering them as well. It is possible this person had seen her in that spot at the park regularly-noting her times/movements & decided to ambush her that day, then finds her with the guy.

Why is he meeting her in a park, when he is supposed to be at a family get-together? That makes no sense.

Like others here I feel that although his ex partners gun didn't match, it is still likely to be an ex of hers-this is far more the way a jealous man reacts than a jealous woman.

His family seemed to have no rational thinking-trying to paint it as some random KKK member stumbled upon them & couldn't contain his rage & even pointing the finger at the guy doing his paperwork there & claiming he couldn't have failed to hear anything-even though the perpetrator used a silencer & why would he still be sitting there after the bodies were discovered if he was the culprit?

[Labonte18]

Originally Posted by James T

I don't necessarily believe he was the target as claimed, another possibility is it was an attempt at sexual assault/rape & in those cases the male assailant usually dispatches the male first, so he can do as he pleases to the female-before murdering them as well. It is possible this person had seen her in that spot at the park regularly-noting her times/movements & decided to ambush her that day, then finds her with the guy.

Why is he meeting her in a park, when he is supposed to be at a family get-together? That makes no sense.

Like others here I feel that although his ex partners gun didn't match, it is still likely to be an ex of hers-this is far more the way a jealous man reacts than a jealous woman.

His family seemed to have no rational thinking-trying to paint it as some random KKK member stumbled upon them & couldn't contain his rage & even pointing the finger at the guy doing his paperwork there & claiming he couldn't have failed to hear anything-even though the perpetrator used a silencer & why would he still be sitting there after the bodies were discovered if he was the culprit?

I don't buy the SA angle.. I'm with you that if they wanted to assault her, yes, they would kill him first..But.. She wasn't assaulted. And.. What? They were going to rape her right there, 40 feet from the highway or whatever? With a possible witness in his truck who could hear the screams?

Yeah.. That don't sit right. Whoever it was shot Nell, and then immediately shot Kate.

The fact that Nell was shot twice with the apparent first shot being to the head.. That says to me that he was the target. Now, does that mean it wasn't one of Kate's exes? Nope.

I feel that whoever did this.. Both of them were going to die. Nell and Kate.

You mention someone knowing her habits.. I didn't see anything that said it was normal for her to go to this park. Did I miss that somewhere?

Go buy a silencer. Dare you. Again.. it's not like the movies. Silencers are VERY hard to come by and if you are able to get one, the gubbment knows you have one.

So.. I don't believe there was a silencer used. Now.. Of course.. This was at a lake, outside.. Sound didn't seem to have a whole lot to echo off of. So.. MAYBE the guy in the van down by the river hears it, just writes it off as a backfire or something. But.. Yeah, I'm a little hung up on him not hearing anything. Also.. Wasn't it a .22 that was used? Or is that what his ex-GF had? Not sure they mentioned what they were shot with.. But, I will say, a .22 would have killed him, because he was shot close up.. She seemed to have been shot while running away.. And.. A .22 isn't all that powerful.. It *IS* rather quiet, tho. Can pretty easily be mistaken for a backfire or firecracker. But.. Mr Van down by the River.. Didn't say anything about hearing it after the fact, either. Like an "Oh, I heard a pop, but didn't think anything of it" type deal.

Why sit there? Because the killer wouldn't do that. No better way to look innocent than to do something that someone guilty wouldn't do.

Do I really think that guy had anything to do with it? Well, again, he was cleared, so.. I have to accept that. But, yes, I do have questions. Some of which might allay my concerns about him. Such as whether a GSR test was done on him. If so, and it was clean.. I'd fully accept he wasn't involved.

Nell was in trouble that day no matter what. Why do I say that? You see his Grandma? She'd have whooped his butt for being late for dinner. You do NOT show up late for dinner with Grandma.

[TheCars1986]

There was a new podcast called "Murder in the Metroparks" that is about 50 minutes long that gave some details that were left out of the UM episode.

* Carnell was the one who initiated the meeting with a text message to Kate. The 10 minute phone call happened shortly after this text.

* The roofer's story was checked extensively by the cops. They did ballistics tests and sound tests to see if it was possible that someone couldn't have heard the gunshots from the distance to where his truck was parked and they verified it. Also were able to verify that he was working on a tablet and a cell phone during the duration of the timeline of the murders. They also say how bad he feels because he didn't see or hear anything related to the murders that could be helpful in solving the case.

* There are license plate reading cameras that were in the general area of the murders, and the official police theory is that they were not being followed to the park by someone.

* They interviewed Lt. Silva from the police department and he said that they ruled out all of Carnell's ex girlfriends. He also said that there was "no information" regarding the hate crime theory and there was nothing that would make them think that theory was more probable than the other theories.

* Kate's family claims that the police did not initially tell her that she was a murder victim, but implied that her death was a suicide.

* The police do have a "handful of people" who are persons of interest in the case, but do not have the evidence for an arrest. They do not have airtight alibis for the time around when the murders were committed.

* There was a tip that came in over the summer that Lt. Silva refused to discuss other than the tip "has legs" but would not comment on whether or not the tip involved an individual suspect.

[Labonte18]

Originally Posted by TheCars1986

There was a new podcast called "Murder in the Metroparks" that is about 50 minutes long that gave some details that were left out of the UM episode.

* Carnell was the one who initiated the meeting with a text message to Kate. The 10 minute phone call happened shortly after this text.

* The roofer's story was checked extensively by the cops. They did ballistics tests and sound tests to see if it was possible that someone couldn't have heard the gunshots from the distance to where his truck was parked and they verified it. Also were able to verify that he was working on a tablet and a cell phone during the duration of the timeline of the murders. They also say how bad he feels because he didn't see or hear anything related to the murders that could be helpful in solving the case.

* There are license plate reading cameras that were in the general area of the murders, and the official police theory is that they were not being followed to the park by someone.

* They interviewed Lt. Silva from the police department and he said that they ruled out all of Carnell's ex girlfriends. He also said that there was "no information" regarding the hate crime theory and there was nothing that would make them think that theory was more probable than the other theories.

* Kate's family claims that the police did not initially tell her that she was a murder victim, but implied that her death was a suicide.

* The police do have a "handful of people" who are persons of interest in the case, but do not have the evidence for an arrest. They do not have airtight alibis for the time around when the murders were committed.

* There was a tip that came in over the summer that Lt. Silva refused to discuss other than the tip "has legs" but would not comment on whether or not the tip involved an individual suspect.

Again.. The roofer.. It just bothers me. I mean, end of the day, he's been cleared by the cops, so.. is what it is. that part, no matter what, will always seem just.. Odd to me. Doesn't mean anything more than just that.. It seems odd, doesn't mean it's wrong. The UM episode did mention that he was working on the tablet the whole time, which.. I took to mean they had verified it.

Kate's family having it presented to them as suicide.. You arrive on that scene.. That's what it looks like. That looks like Murder/Suicide. So, cops notifying the family.. I can 100% see them saying at the start "This looks like a murder/suicide" because.. It does at first glance. But, after the suicide portion of a murder/suicide.. There's no one left to get rid of the gun.

as for the people ruled out.. I'll caution here that you can rule them out as having pulled the trigger. You cannot rule them out for having involvement. I'm not leaning heavily on it, but murder-for-hire is a legit possibility. do I rank that highly? no, not really. But.. having said that. If Nell is shot, then shot a second time.. Kate is running away.. that is NOT a simple shot, hitting a target running away from you. Where was Kate shot? Do we have the info on that? Because, that can change some of my thoughts here.

[mozartpc27]

Originally Posted by TheCars1986

* There are license plate reading cameras that were in the general area of the murders, and the official police theory is that they were not being followed to the park by someone.

Just watched this one...

If this is true - that they were not followed to the park - wouldn't that be tantamount to saying this was definitely a random act? Their meeting at the park was undisputedly a last-second arrangement. If they weren't followed there, therefore, it seems to me that this is the police saying they were randomly selected, meaning this crime was either a hate crime or otherwise motivated by something that did not target these two individuals personally.

Which seems nearly impossible.

An interesting case, to be sure.

[Latka Gravas]

Recently re-watched the "Park Bench Murders" episode in the new Unsolved Mysteries Netflix series. This first episode was hands down the best one in this short season. Very compelling, horrific, and completely baffling. I'm not from the Cleveland area - and had not heard of the case prior to seeing this episode. I don't remember how much (if any) national news coverage it received back in 2019.

Heinous crimes like this that happen when it's still light out in relatively low-crime public areas are especially disturbing - because they're so unusual.

Initially, I was thinking this was probably a random hate crime. I.e., a bigot coincidentally walking through the park at the same time Carnell & Kate were sitting on the park bench targets them both - due to them being an interracial couple.

Outside of the hate crime possibility - it's also plausible that one?! of them was being stalked by someone. However, if this were the case how did the killer know that they were going to be meeting in that specific place in the park - at that particular day & time?!

(Also - though this isn't really that relevant to the case, I wanted to touch on the discussion (in the episode) that Cornell's parents had never met Kate. I don't find this odd at all. Cornell was in his 30's, and at his age - his parents wouldn't necessarily know all of his friends. Anyway, just my .02)

Hopefully this will be solved one day.