How did Batman go from a Top 10/Top 5 Hit in Season 1 to losing viewers in Season 2?

[simmytbone]

Hey guys,

Question: Now....Batman debut during the 65/66 season as a mid-season replacement and became abc's newest hit out of no where

The series was on for 2 nights in its 1st 2 seasons:

Wednesday Nights against The Virginian and Thursday Nights against fellow 20th Century Fox Television Hit Daniel Boone

Produced By William Dozier and Howie Horwitz who produced the short-lived CBS Western Series The Loner with Lloyd Bridges as well as The Green Hornet with Van Williams and Bruce Lee and the unsold pilot of Dick Tracy with Ray MacDonnell, Batman was a series that blends action and comedy with those holy cliffhangers and was a mixture of the Comic Book with elements from the 60's spy series The Man From U.N.C.L.E.

In its 1st season, the Part 1 episodes finished in at #10 and the Part 2 episodes finished at #5, however, it never cracked #1 thanks to Bonanza nor did it finish in the Top 4 thanks to Gomer Pyle USMC, The Lucy Show and The Red Skelton Hour and on both nights, it beat The Virginian and Daniel Boone head to head, but when the show returned for its 2nd season (its 1st full season), Batman on both nights would decline in the ratings

with The Virginian & Daniel Boone gaining the upper hand in the ratings (along with The Andy Griffith Show, Bewitched, Green Acres, The Beverly Hillbilles, Daktari and Petticoat Junction gaining the upper hand as well) Batman fell down in the Nielsen Ratings on both nights

The Wednesday Night Episodes tumbled 48 notches from #10 to #58 with the Thursday Night Episodes falling 32 notches from #5 to #37 and The Virginian moved up from the Top 25 to the Top 10 at #10 tied with abc's The Lawrence Welk Show and CBS' Gomer Pyle USMC and The Ed Sullivan Show and Bewitched which was #7 in the Nielsen Ratings tied with CBS' Daktari & The Ed Sullivan Show was abc's highest rated series on their network

Plus, season 2 was the only season that did not feature Frank Gorshin as The Riddler (John Astin aka Gomez Addams from The Addams Family appeared as The Riddler in the second season)

But in the 3rd season, abc scrapped the cliffhangers and decided to go to once a week airing only on Thursday Nights once again against NBC's Daniel Boone and even the addition of Batgirl didn't help the show either and was cancelled after only 3 seasons

So how did Batman with Adam West & Burt Ward go from abc's newest hit show to losing so many viewers? How did the Wednesday Night Show go from a Top 10 to dropping out of the Top 50 and how did the Thursday Night Show went from a Top 5 to dropping to the Top 40? What do you attribute that to? The Writing? The Movie Version? The network? The Producers? The Directors? The Money? The Cliffhangers? or is it the fact that fans were tired of the same ol' cliches?

and how did The Virginian and Daniel Boone were able to gain the upper hand on Batman on both nights?

THAT'S THE QUESTION!

Please share your thoughts on this

[Charles Knox]

Too much focus on slapstick and goofiness and nothing on what a show about Batman should have been about. Fans of the character had to wait until the late 80's, to get a decent live-action Batman adaptation.

Once the goofy appeal wore off, the show had nothing of any real substance to offer and as a result, the show was canned and the comic book almost canceled. In the early 70's, Dennis O'Neil and Neal Adams had to revamped the character and take him back to his 1930's roots as Gotham's dark knight protector.

[Duster76]

The series was a midseason replacement, and as you noted exploded out of the box, but the first season like all other things came to an end. Between the first and second seasons there were clear signs that the phenomenon was little more than a quick fading fad. The Batman movie released in July made a profit but underperformed at the box office based on expectations. There was a live show put together for the summer of 66 but ticket sales were abysmal, at Shea Stadium in New York only 3,000 tickets were sold.

By season two ratings were crashing and ABC was ready to pull the plug, the producers pitched the series with the addition of a Bat Girl character, and the network renewed it as one single half hour a week with a steep budget reduction. Season three fared even worse than season 2, exit Batman.

So now to the question, what happened and to answer that question we have to go back a few years to the offices of DC Comics. What was under discussion was what to do with one of their flagship publications, Detective Comics (That's where the name DC comes from). The monthly comic which featured Batman was one of the worse performing publications in their portfolio, there was even a discussion about cancelling the comic altogether. The eventual solution was to reimagine the Batman character not only in this comic but in the Batman comic as well. The idea was to update the look of Batman, get rid of the original Bat Girl, Bat Woman, Bat Mite, and give the Batmobile a more contemporary look. Batman would take on darker stories moving away from the softer storylines that were so much a part of the 1950 titles that featured Batman. The May 1964 edition of Detective Comics featured the new version of Batman, so this was the Batman fans were now familiar with when the Batman series premiered in early 1966. The fans of the character took him and the world he resided in seriously and the show made a joke out of the entire thing. Rather than bringing the world of Batman as imagined in DC comics to life, the producers created a parody that would have been more at home in Mad Magazine. The fans turned away quickly (in half a season to be exact), leaving the network, the producers, and a lot of TV columnists trying to figure out what happened.

[Charles Knox]

Originally Posted by Duster76

The series was a midseason replacement, and as you noted exploded out of the box, but the first season like all other things came to an end. Between the first and second seasons there were clear signs that the phenomenon was little more than a quick fading fad. The Batman movie released in July made a profit but underperformed at the box office based on expectations. There was a live show put together for the summer of 66 but ticket sales were abysmal, at Shea Stadium in New York only 3,000 tickets were sold.

By season two ratings were crashing and ABC was ready to pull the plug, the producers pitched the series with the addition of a Bat Girl character, and the network renewed it as one single half hour a week with a steep budget reduction. Season three fared even worse than season 2, exit Batman.

So now to the question, what happened and to answer that question we have to go back a few years to the offices of DC Comics. What was under discussion was what to do with one of their flagship publications, Detective Comics (That's where the name DC comes from). The monthly comic which featured Batman was one of the worse performing publications in their portfolio, there was even a discussion about cancelling the comic altogether. The eventual solution was to reimagine the Batman character not only in this comic but in the Batman comic as well. The idea was to update the look of Batman, get rid of the original Bat Girl, Bat Woman, Bat Mite, and give the Batmobile a more contemporary look. Batman would take on darker stories moving away from the softer storylines that were so much a part of the 1950 titles that featured Batman. The May 1964 edition of Detective Comics featured the new version of Batman, so this was the Batman fans were now familiar with when the Batman series premiered in early 1966. The fans of the character took him and the world he resided in seriously and the show made a joke out of the entire thing. Rather than bringing the world of Batman as imagined in DC comics to life, the producers created a parody that would have been more at home in Mad Magazine. The fans turned away quickly (in half a season to be exact), leaving the network, the producers, and a lot of TV columnists trying to figure out what happened.

1964 was the first Batman revamp. While the show was on the air, the comic book suffered a relapse back into camp and after the fad quickly faded, DC had to revamped the character yet again in the late 60's / early 70's. They even had Dick Grayson (Robin) leave for college to split them up. For a while, they were even experimenting with a new costume for Robin in a 70's issue of the Justice League.

The 2nd revamp was also when they brought back Two-Face and introduced some of Batman's darker villains, such as Ra's Al Ghoul, Killer Croc and ManBat.

[biffbronson]

Minor correction: Killer Croc was not introduced until 1983. The other characters you mentioned were featured in 1970-72 or so.

Several changes in the comic books occurred in 1964 that have not been mentioned in this thread: 1) The oval was introduced around the bat symbol on Batman's chest, as such it could be trademarked. 2) Editor Julius Schwartz was assigned the Batman and Detective Comics series, taking over for Jack Schiff. 3) I believe there was a new contract for Bob Kane; in addition to artwork from his ghost artist Sheldon Moldoff, which he turned in, other stories were now to be drawn directly by DC artists Infantino & Stone and others. 4) A storyline was concocted to result in Alfred being replaced by Dick Grayson's Aunt Harriet; some speculate this was done to introduce a woman into Wayne Manor in response to allegations 10 years earlier of Bruce & Dick being in a homosexual relationship. 5) In addition to character changes, no longer would science fiction and fantasy stories be written to any extent -- previous editor Schiff actually wanted to get away from those themes, but executive v.p. Irwin Donenfeld had insisted on space travel etc.

[king of comedy]

If Aunt Harriet hadn't arrived, we would have had these sci fi and fantasy stories.

[simmytbone]

another thing that hurt Batman was the production cost

Producer William Dozier stated that it was a very expensive show to do, the sets were expensive, the special effects were expensive, and that the cost was killing them.

[TMC]

To The Batpoles: #068 Season Two vs. Season One: Was the slide inevitable?

This time we convene in the place where the batmania started (for us): Centerville, Iowa! This is the town where we lived when we first fell in love with the show. We happen to be here just as we’ve finished watching season two, and we take the opportunity to compare the first two seasons. (Few would argue that there wasn’t a dropoff in quality as the series progressed, notably in the writing and the type of humor presented...or, does it just seem that way because the Lorenzo Semple take on the concept is our favorite?)

Taking the slide in quality as a given, we have to ask: Was this slide inevitable, or could it have been avoided? What were the reasons for the slide? What’s the best attitude to take as we advance, trepidatiously, into season three?

[TMC]

Originally Posted by Duster76

The series was a midseason replacement, and as you noted exploded out of the box, but the first season like all other things came to an end. Between the first and second seasons there were clear signs that the phenomenon was little more than a quick fading fad. The Batman movie released in July made a profit but underperformed at the box office based on expectations. There was a live show put together for the summer of 66 but ticket sales were abysmal, at Shea Stadium in New York only 3,000 tickets were sold.

By season two ratings were crashing and ABC was ready to pull the plug, the producers pitched the series with the addition of a Bat Girl character, and the network renewed it as one single half hour a week with a steep budget reduction. Season three fared even worse than season 2, exit Batman.

So now to the question, what happened and to answer that question we have to go back a few years to the offices of DC Comics. What was under discussion was what to do with one of their flagship publications, Detective Comics (That's where the name DC comes from). The monthly comic which featured Batman was one of the worse performing publications in their portfolio, there was even a discussion about cancelling the comic altogether. The eventual solution was to reimagine the Batman character not only in this comic but in the Batman comic as well. The idea was to update the look of Batman, get rid of the original Bat Girl, Bat Woman, Bat Mite, and give the Batmobile a more contemporary look. Batman would take on darker stories moving away from the softer storylines that were so much a part of the 1950 titles that featured Batman. The May 1964 edition of Detective Comics featured the new version of Batman, so this was the Batman fans were now familiar with when the Batman series premiered in early 1966. The fans of the character took him and the world he resided in seriously and the show made a joke out of the entire thing. Rather than bringing the world of Batman as imagined in DC comics to life, the producers created a parody that would have been more at home in Mad Magazine. The fans turned away quickly (in half a season to be exact), leaving the network, the producers, and a lot of TV columnists trying to figure out what happened.

As others have argued, Season 2 shows a serious decline overall quality. First and foremost, Lorenzo Semple Jr., who was the head writer and script editor left about halfway through the second season. Semple above anybody else, seemed to best understand that there needed to be a delicate balance between "adventure" and "weird humor". But after he left and people like Charles Hoffman took over as script editor, the show went from being an adventure show with weird humor... to a SITCOM with costumes.

There was also you could argue, an influx of lower quality guest villains, in particular those played by way past their prime performers like Tallulah Bankhead (Black Widow) and Walter Slezak (Clock King) as well as Maurice Evans as The Puzzler, Van Johnson as The Minstrel, Art Carney as The Archer, Carolyn Jones as Marcia Queen of Diamonds, and Michael Rennie as the Sandman. This was coupled with an unsatisfactory performance of John Astin as The Riddler in the place of Frank Gorshin.

[simmytbone]

Originally Posted by TMC

As others have argued, Season 2 shows a serious decline overall quality. First and foremost, Lorenzo Semple Jr., who was the head writer and script editor left about halfway through the second season. Semple above anybody else, seemed to best understand that there needed to be a delicate balance between "adventure" and "weird humor". But after he left and people like Charles Hoffman took over as script editor, the show went from adventure show with weird humor... to a SITCOM with costumes.

There was also you could argue, an influx of lower quality guest villains, in particular those played by way past their prime performers like Tallulah Bankhead (Black Widow) and Walter Slezak (Clock King) as well as Maurice Evans as The Puzzler, Van Johnson as the Archer, Carolyn Jones as Marcia Queen of Diamonds, and Michael Rennie as the Sandman. This was coupled with an unsatisfactory performance of John Astin as The Riddler in the place of Frank Gorshin.

Adam West mentioned in his book Back to the Batcave that The Archer & The Minstrel were the 2 weak villains and said he wished that Season 2 had started off strong with the Joker or Penguin or other strong villains.

I have to agree with Mr. West, should've started off with a 3-Part or better yet, a 2 Hour Season Premiere Movie with Batman & Robin vs. The Joker & The Penguin.

Starting off the Season Premiere with The Archer was a horrible decision by the network. That was INDEED a Head Scratcher there

[simmytbone]

Batman did have too many villains that weren't really that good and the cliffhangers from the 2nd season were some of the worst ones that I've seen (with the exception of only a few)

Now the 1st season, I did enjoy the Batvillains that were 1 hit wonders like Zelda the Great and The Bookworm

Plus, I did enjoy Pauline the Riddler's Henchwoman played by the Beautiful Sherry Jackson of TV's Make Room for Daddy aka The Danny Thomas Show

[biffbronson]

Carolyn Jones as one of the "way past their prime" actors playing villains ??? Just for the record, she was still in her thirties!!!

[TMC]

Originally Posted by biffbronson

Carolyn Jones as one of the "way past their prime" actors playing villains ??? Just for the record, she was still in her thirties!!!

I wasn't referring to literally every single actor that I listed beyond the first two! But in Tallulah Bankhead's case in particular, I believe that her guest spot on Batman was her final acting job prior to her death less than a year later.

[TMC]

Originally Posted by Charles Knox

Too much focus on slapstick and goofiness and nothing on what a show about Batman should have been about. Fans of the character had to wait until the late 80's, to get a decent live-action Batman adaptation.

Once the goofy appeal wore off, the show had nothing of any real substance to offer and as a result, the show was canned and the comic book almost canceled. In the early 70's, Dennis O'Neil and Neal Adams had to revamped the character and take him back to his 1930's roots as Gotham's dark knight protector.

In the old Jump the Shark page on Batman, others argued that come the second season, it was less of an action show and more of an out and out comedy. The first season had a good mixture and balance of wit, humor, and suspense. Like I said previously, it was more of an action-adventure show that had "weird humor" in it rather than a sitcom with costumes.

But after the feature film came out in-between Seasons 1 and 2 (which in itself, infamously had Batman fighting a rubber shark that was clung to his leg while hanging on to a helicopter ladder), the show appeared to become too self-conscious that it was a spoof. In other words, once they fully realized that the show was camp, they began writing deliberately funny lines ("Bat-Burgers at the drive-in?"). And whereas you could say that Season 1 of Batman was "true camp" (i.e. outrageous situations, played seriously to comic effect), Season 2 unfortunately, gave way to gags and shtick.

[TMC]

It appears that Season 3 (AKA "The Batgirl Season" with Yvonne Craig) was all that was wrong with Season 2 but multiplied: Repetition, predictability, cheapness, and careless script-writing.