Justin Burgwinkel

[James T]

Originally Posted by DALLASTEXAN!!

I think suicide is a possibility.

While murder is possible his behaviour points heavily towards it, I know it it is hard to judge from looking at photos but the ones they used/are online he just doesn't look right either-he just looks pretty scary/intense. I think/hope that nowadays his behaviour would have been picked up on & he would have been diagnosed with mental health problems & given therapy & maybe some medication-all the signs were there-a shoplifting incident, telling people he was involved in some secret mission, refusing to open a briefcase in front of his gf & then shredding papers inside when she sneaked a look, mood swings, crying, buying guns & ammo etc.

[DALLASTEXAN!!]

Originally Posted by James T

While murder is possible his behaviour points heavily towards it, I know it it is hard to judge from looking at photos but the ones they used/are online he just doesn't look right either-he just looks pretty scary/intense. I think/hope that nowadays his behaviour would have been picked up on & he would have been diagnosed with mental health problems & given therapy & maybe some medication-all the signs were there-a shoplifting incident, telling people he was involved in some secret mission, refusing to open a briefcase in front of his gf & then shredding papers inside when she sneaked a look, mood swings, crying, buying guns & ammo etc.

yes a lot of red flags there.

[rusty spike]

First after reading the many comments of people who knew Justin, he was very well liked and appreciated. I think it speaks well of his character.

Like so many here, I genuinely doubt that Justin was on some secret mission. The spy stuff doesn't fly.

Here's my question and concern. Aside from the account and testimony from the girlfriend about Justin "acting weird, cutting up paper, and going everywhere with a top secret briefcase" was this corroborated by anyone else?

Seriously, the final days of Justin's life is painted by a girlfriend who might have reasons to lie. I'm not suggesting that she is directly involved in his death, but I think she knows more than the "he became paranoid~ secret mission, white sands story" she told on UM. Justin's Mom never mentioned that he was acting out of the normal; only that she had stopped receiving calls from Justin.

We know that Justin was reassigned to Ft Lewis, but went AWOL and returned to see the girlfriend. I think Justin may have tried to persuade her to move with him or even marry him. She may have rebuffed him or even told Justin that she never loved him. I think she broke up with him and possibly drove him to suicide or possibly had a new guy beat him up or murder him. I know that this is a big theory, but his car was eventually found with his wallet, id, keys and military dog tags. In my opinion, people who want to make a hit just do so. I think someone wanted his car and personal affects to be found, but not his body. As you can probably tell, I don't believe the girlfriend and her story.

[Latka Gravas]

Unfortunately, it looks like JB had a mental breakdown of some sort & his disappearance was connected to this. I don't see him being on any kind of "secret mission", as he attested to his gf.

As for the "mysterious call" that the gf got one night when JB was out stating that "the mission was off" (or something to that effect), I don't put any stock in this at all. It could easily have been someone screwing with JB & the gf, and that's it.

Originally Posted by rusty spike

Like so many here, I genuinely doubt that Justin was on some secret mission. The spy stuff doesn't fly.

We know that Justin was reassigned to Ft Lewis, but went AWOL and returned to see the girlfriend. I think Justin may have tried to persuade her to move with him or even marry him. She may have rebuffed him or even told Justin that she never loved him. I think she broke up with him and possibly drove him to suicide or possibly had a new guy beat him up or murder him. I know that this is a big theory, but his car was eventually found with his wallet, id, keys and military dog tags. In my opinion, people who want to make a hit just do so. I think someone wanted his car and personal affects to be found, but not his body. As you can probably tell, I don't believe the girlfriend and her story.

This is possible, but I didn't get that vibe from the gf as she was being interviewed on the segment. IMHO she didn't know any more about what happened to him than his parents.

[ChandlerMurielB1]

I thought his mother and girlfriend came across as odd, as if they were hiding something...

[MegtheEgg86]

Originally Posted by rusty spike

Seriously, the final days of Justin's life is painted by a girlfriend who might have reasons to lie. I'm not suggesting that she is directly involved in his death, but I think she knows more than the "he became paranoid~ secret mission, white sands story" she told on UM. Justin's Mom never mentioned that he was acting out of the normal; only that she had stopped receiving calls from Justin.

Emphasis mine. It seems you contradicted yourself here.

We know that Justin was reassigned to Ft Lewis, but went AWOL and returned to see the girlfriend. I think Justin may have tried to persuade her to move with him or even marry him. She may have rebuffed him or even told Justin that she never loved him. I think she broke up with him and possibly drove him to suicide or possibly had a new guy beat him up or murder him. I know that this is a big theory, but his car was eventually found with his wallet, id, keys and military dog tags. In my opinion, people who want to make a hit just do so. I think someone wanted his car and personal affects to be found, but not his body. As you can probably tell, I don't believe the girlfriend and her story.

It's a big theory, alright. That's being charitable.

[MegtheEgg86]

Found a fantastic Reddit post wherein someone carefully pieced together a timeline of Justin's Army career:

https://www.reddit.com/r/UnresolvedM...kel_disappear/

Originally Posted by Reddit user

I was able to piece together his Military service through people that knew him.Performed well on DLAB (language aptitude test) and ASVAB (military aptitude test) He wanted to eventually be a Ranger, Delta or Special Forces kind of guy.

Enlisted in US Army as a 35P, Interpreter for Korean. appx 1986-87 Completed boot camp. Sent to Presido at Monterey, CA. Completed a large part of the course and was sent to Korea for familiarization training. At this point, he stole Nintendo cartridges and VHS tapes from a local vendor.

He was kicked out of the 35P course for an integrity violation and his Top Secret clearance was likely rejected for criminal activity. At this point, he had remaining service obligations and was not qualified for any jobs requiring a clearance.

1991: He was reassigned by the Army as a 92G, a cook. . Ord, right near the interpreter schoolhouse Presido. Assigned to HHC 9th Infantry Regiment, Fort Ord,California

His morale was crushed, he stopped trying hard and got pudgy. Focused mostly on partying and playing grabass. The unit was undergoing reorganization, his unit was split into one of the line units and he joined either 1/9 2/9 or 3/9 Infantry. He moved to Washington state with the unit.

He continued being a cook and started concocting secret agent stories which his family and friends dismissed as BS. Only once he disappeared did anyone take his stories seriously.

The rest in personal speculation:

He went AWOL, drove all over the west coast, visiting GF, family, etc. Bought two handguns and 1000 rounds. Parked at some shady hotel and abandoned his personal items. Jumped off a bridge or something. This way he dies a 'hero', doesn't have the stigma of suicide and escapes the failure of his military career and shattered view of himself. Possible mix of schizophrenia or other underlying mental health issues.

His military career is poorly explained in the Unsolved Mysteries show, and it seems like he lied to his family about what he did and did not accomplish. His brother Casey thought he completed Ranger training and enlisted as Infantry, but that does not seem to be the case. I think the show just went with what the family said and didn't draw his service records. I don't think he attended Ranger school or pre-Ranger. He likely planned to attend Ranger after language training, but having a criminal record and getting dropped from the schoolhouse so late in training does not do good things for your future.

So, Burgwinkel initially enlisted to become a Korean language specialist, which falls under the military intelligence branch and required a top secret security clearance. The shoplifting incident occurred in Korea at the tail end of his language training, and this caused him to 1) lose his clearance and 2) be kicked out of language school. He indeed was reassigned as a food service specialist, an MOS that does not require an elevated security clearance. At this point, Burgwinkel's life and career seems to have taken a downward trajectory.

I have always thought he committed suicide and that this is probably the reason why.

It really does suck. Although I agree that Justin's actions merited him removal from the course and revocation of his security clearance, I'm not sure a lot of care was taken in reassigning him an MOS. A total recipe for disaster. OF COURSE he began to develop even worse disciplinary problems.

He should have been placed in an MOS that allowed for the Army to utilize his clearly keen intellect, or at least his physical prowess. In the latter case, this is often what happens to hordes of young men who don't make it through Special Forces training every year. They are typically reassigned as infantrymen in the 82nd Airborne.

[Or So It Seems]

Thanks...all this discussion has certainly changed the way I look at this case now.

[WishfulDreamer]

"The mission is off" phone call understandably had Justin's family and girlfriend believing it was possible that an outside party had something to do with his disappearance or that at the very least, others knew where he had gone. But I (and I'm sure most others on this board) think it was just a red herring. When I was younger, I admittedly did find some of the other parts of this segment suspicious which had me thinking that someone could have done him in, but I think Justin's actions speak for themselves.

Some of Justin's behavior prior to disappearing reminds me of the Billy Hargrove case. Both did not show up as they were supposed to and when confronted, they didn't immediately show up/call in because they knew there weren't going to be consequences to face. Billy was in fact pretty happy go lucky (a common occurrence in people about to take their own life, as they know they are about to end their pain), while Justin was adamant that he wasn't AWOL and would straighten things out right away--which, of course, he didn't. I agree with the theory that he probably jumped off a bridge. Suicidal people can't bury themselves, but they can end their lives in ways that make it very difficult for them to ever be found and jumping into a large body of water (especially an ocean) is a way to do that. Monterey Bay was very close to where his car was found, and just happens to be in the largest ocean in the world. If he did jump into it, odds are that he will never be found.

[bell83]

Originally Posted by WishfulDreamer

Suicidal people can't bury themselves, but they can end their lives in ways that make it very difficult for them to ever be found and jumping into a large body of water (especially an ocean) is a way to do that. Monterey Bay was very close to where his car was found, and just happens to be in the largest ocean in the world. If he did jump into it, odds are that he will never be found.

Exactly what I think is the most likely scenario here.

He could even be unidentified skeletal remains in some random sheriff's department, waiting for money to be allotted for DNA testing.

[Hambone2421]

Originally Posted by MegtheEgg86

Found a fantastic Reddit post wherein someone carefully pieced together a timeline of Justin's Army career:

https://www.reddit.com/r/UnresolvedM...kel_disappear/



So, Burgwinkel initially enlisted to become a Korean language specialist, which falls under the military intelligence branch and required a top secret security clearance. The shoplifting incident occurred in Korea at the tail end of his language training, and this caused him to 1) lose his clearance and 2) be kicked out of language school. He indeed was reassigned as a food service specialist, an MOS that does not require an elevated security clearance. At this point, Burgwinkel's life and career seems to have taken a downward trajectory.

I have always thought he committed suicide and that this is probably the reason why.

It really does suck. Although I agree that Justin's actions merited him removal from the course and revocation of his security clearance, I'm not sure a lot of care was taken in reassigning him an MOS. A total recipe for disaster. OF COURSE he began to develop even worse disciplinary problems.

He should have been placed in an MOS that allowed for the Army to utilize his clearly keen intellect, or at least his physical prowess. In the latter case, this is often what happens to hordes of young men who don't make it through Special Forces training every year. They are typically reassigned as infantrymen in the 82nd Airborne.

This makes total sense. I hadn't really given much thought to the suicide theory but the reddit thread you posted along with your post is pretty convincing. He absolutely seemed like the type that bragged about his career. I cant blame him. Young guy, joining the military and likely pretty pumped about it. His suspension and all of the issues he got into certainly derailed everything he wanted to achieve ad told his family about. Embarrassment kicks in and he just didn't have the heart to tell anyone so he continued on with this façade about his military career taking off.

The "White Sands" portion of the story probably fits in perfectly. It was released during this time so he probably wanted to see it, based on its premise, and did and then concocted this elaborate story tying that movie into his entire ordeal to make it seem more realistic. It's a sad ordeal all around.

[DALLASTEXAN!!]

Originally Posted by MegtheEgg86

Found a fantastic Reddit post wherein someone carefully pieced together a timeline of Justin's Army career:

https://www.reddit.com/r/UnresolvedM...kel_disappear/



So, Burgwinkel initially enlisted to become a Korean language specialist, which falls under the military intelligence branch and required a top secret security clearance. The shoplifting incident occurred in Korea at the tail end of his language training, and this caused him to 1) lose his clearance and 2) be kicked out of language school. He indeed was reassigned as a food service specialist, an MOS that does not require an elevated security clearance. At this point, Burgwinkel's life and career seems to have taken a downward trajectory.

I have always thought he committed suicide and that this is probably the reason why.

It really does suck. Although I agree that Justin's actions merited him removal from the course and revocation of his security clearance, I'm not sure a lot of care was taken in reassigning him an MOS. A total recipe for disaster. OF COURSE he began to develop even worse disciplinary problems.

He should have been placed in an MOS that allowed for the Army to utilize his clearly keen intellect, or at least his physical prowess. In the latter case, this is often what happens to hordes of young men who don't make it through Special Forces training every year. They are typically reassigned as infantrymen in the 82nd Airborne.

I can definitely substantiate this. From my understanding the Air Force can discharge someone who doesn't make it through their training or reclassify them into another job, but the Air Force will usually place a person who doesn't make it in special forces (or linguist) into a job of the Air Force's choosing. It really sucks and doesn't make sense to me why they recruit so heavy on special forces and linguists and then in turn they don't throw recruits an olive branch if they cannot make the cut. those positions are extremely difficult to pass through the training. Now there could be more to it than what I know, but I do know what the fine print says when you sign your contract....and linguists/special forces trainees will be well aware of this before they sign.

I never bought into the idea that Justin was abducted or murdered. I think he was unhappy with his life and was trying to fill a void that existed by living out a fantasy. We know that suicide rates are high in the military and it for me is most likely what happened to Justin unfortunately. I wish he could have gotten the help that he needed.

[refinedsugar]

I just watched this segment again. He could have easily put a friend up to it, but I now wonder if the "mission's off" phonecall to his gf wasn't Justin himself. A lot of people enjoy the military men stories UM featured, but to me, one you strip away any crazy conspiracy theories you can see them for what they are.

I don't however have the level of sympathy for Justin like some others have expressed. He messed up and paid the price. There's got to be some level of self accountability. He could have rebounded or learnt from it. He didn't have to kill himself.

[DALLASTEXAN!!]

Originally Posted by refinedsugar

I just watched this segment again. He could have easily put a friend up to it, but I now wonder if the "mission's off" phonecall to his gf wasn't Justin himself. A lot of people enjoy the military men stories UM featured, but to me, one you strip away any crazy conspiracy theories you can see them for what they are.

I don't however have the level of sympathy for Justin like some others have expressed. He messed up and paid the price. There's got to be some level of self accountability. He could have rebounded or learnt from it. He didn't have to kill himself.

I think sometimes people have a false sense of reality in regards to military service, especially the more difficult positions that require difficult training and qualifications. that is why so many people like Justin who try to do it are not able to. and then people who are cut out for it...it is very difficult because of the sacrifices and high level of personal discipline and accountability. with that said I have a lot of empathy for people like Justin who made mistakes and need mental health care. Not saying he did not deserve to be punished for his crime, but definitely needed help. At the end of the day I think he was hurting mentally and was not cut out for the Army. his GF and parents being unfamiliar with the army, they were not able to see through his behavior.

[refinedsugar]

A lot of talk gets made about family, friends, superiors and co-workers spotting people in these situations and getting them the help they need. The reality of it is many times people in bad spots slip thru the cracks and even when they don't sometimes they won't listen and you can't force them to get the help they need.