Angela Hammond - Girl abducted from phone booth

[Stratego]

Originally Posted by LooksLikeCRicci

I thought I was going to have to get out my megaphone and shout “ROB DID NOT DO IT” again….

[TheCars1986]

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-identity.html

I saw this article recently and there are a couple of cryptic paragraphs that make me think the police have a person of interest. Apparently, someone anonymously called in a tip earlier this year:

However, cops noted that investigators have come across information, that was not provided by police, that lends credibility to the mistaken identity theory 'and have so far been unable to refute it.'

Cops said that another break in case might be made if an anonymous tipster who recently reached out would get back into contact with them after providing information about a person cops had previously investigated.

To my knowledge, the people that the cops previously investigated were Rob and an ex-boyfriend. They make a point to mention that Rob had been investigated and cleared, so it's not him. Maybe the ex-boyfriend? But Angie didn't recognize the guy or his truck, so I wonder if there was another person of interest that was never publicly named.

[Jon]

This case is the one I want to see solved more than any other. I don't really know how promising this is, but I'd like to at least think solving the case is not a lost cause.

[James T]

Originally Posted by TheCars1986

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-identity.html

I saw this article recently and there are a couple of cryptic paragraphs that make me think the police have a person of interest. Apparently, someone anonymously called in a tip earlier this year:


To my knowledge, the people that the cops previously investigated were Rob and an ex-boyfriend. They make a point to mention that Rob had been investigated and cleared, so it's not him. Maybe the ex-boyfriend? But Angie didn't recognize the guy or his truck, so I wonder if there was another person of interest that was never publicly named.

Maybe Rob hired some guy to do it?

[TheCars1986]

Originally Posted by James T

Maybe Rob hired some guy to do it?

Doubtful that he would be able to afford that considering they didn't even own a phone in their trailer. Also, the article linked to a different article with a video that had an interview with the captain of the Clinton PD and he said that Rob got a description of the vehicle wrong because it was dark, had "an alibi", "passed numerous polygraphs", and "always cooperated with investigators".

https://www.kctv5.com/news/investiga...5ca0322e5.html

There's the local article with the video. Here are some interesting tidbits:

Police say the lead comes from the original police file. It was ignored because police couldn’t connect it to the mysterious green truck that Rob Schafer chased. An informant in another case turned over a bizarre letter threatening the informant’s wife and daughter. One is named Angela. The informant had moved to Clinton a short time before the disappearance.

“It was postmarked the exact date that our Angela was stolen,” said Captain Abbott. When asked if the two women looked alike, he said, “There were striking similarities. Very much so.”

Police have been exploring theory of a mistaken identity for years, originally only reviling it to Angela’s mother. They decided to go public with it hoping someone with information comes forward. They want a recent tipster to call them back. That tipster left a message echoing their mistaken identity theory.

“Boy, we would sure like to talk to that person,” said Captain Abbott. “That person named that one name that we have investigated before.”

Police are sure of a few things: Angela was kidnapped by a stranger and Rob Schafer has been cleared. He has passed numerous polygraphs, had an alibi and always cooperated with investigators.

The cops had a person of interest at the time, but they were quickly moved away from when they couldn't tie them to the green pickup with a fish mural. Now they think that lead is a dead end and that Rob was mistaken about the details. If I had to bet money, I'd say the informant was involved with drugs and someone from the area he had once lived had come to Clinton seeking revenge and Angie was targeted by mistake. The article below confirms that the informant was involved in a "significant narcotics case".

https://www.ky3.com/2021/04/15/old-e...bduction-case/

[TheCars1986]

Originally Posted by TheCars1986

This is the spot where Rob's vehicle stalled. The abductor was turning left on Charles E. Calvird Drive and was most likely headed to highway 52 to God knows where after that.

If you change the date on Google to 2008, you can see how desolate the area was even then. I can only imagine what it was like in 1991. Rob was approximately 1.5 miles away from the pay phones. So the abductor had a huge head start before the police were notified.

Sorry to keep bumping this thread, but it's interesting that there are multiple ways for the abductor to have taken to get back to the Lake of the Ozarks area. It would have been a huge hole in the theory if the abductor was headed in the opposite direction.

[jOHnNyD]

To believe that Rob arranged this, here’s what you would have to believe:

1) Rob’s hitman would first have to be successful in abducting her. What if he didn’t succeed? It’s not beyond belief she could have fought off his guy, or a Good Samaritan would have interceded. Also, the job of a hitman is to off the target, not abduct them in a struggle - a struggle in the open. So the concept that this was planned is absurd.

2) Rob would have had to also succeed in destroying the transmission in his car at the right time and in the right location when the abductors truck drove by. But even if the abduction was a complete lie (hard to believe since witnesses saw the abductor Rob described), try planning on destroying your transmission that way. It’s not something you can just attempt and hope it will happen. What if he couldn’t break the thing? He’s risking being in the position to keep chasing after the nonexistent abductor’s truck, with no excuse if he didn’t. Plus he put himself in the extremely risky position of being seen by people, in the middle of a downtown, staging the failed chase.

Rob didn’t do this. Period.

[James T]

Originally Posted by jOHnNyD

To believe that Rob arranged this, here’s what you would have to believe:

1) Rob’s hitman would first have to be successful in abducting her. What if he didn’t succeed? It’s not beyond belief she could have fought off his guy, or a Good Samaritan would have interceded. Also, the job of a hitman is to off the target, not abduct them in a struggle - a struggle in the open. So the concept that this was planned is absurd.

2) Rob would have had to also succeed in destroying the transmission in his car at the right time and in the right location when the abductors truck drove by. But even if the abduction was a complete lie (hard to believe since witnesses saw the abductor Rob described), try planning on destroying your transmission that way. It’s not something you can just attempt and hope it will happen. What if he couldn’t break the thing? He’s risking being in the position to keep chasing after the nonexistent abductor’s truck, with no excuse if he didn’t. Plus he put himself in the extremely risky position of being seen by people, in the middle of a downtown, staging the failed chase.

Rob didn’t do this. Period.

No, it was a joke. The recent angle is interesting, but I still fell this was most likely just a sex offender who happened to be passing/in that area & this was nothing more than a chance abduction of a lone woman from a remote location.

[Montanacool360]

Originally Posted by TheCars1986

Doubtful that he would be able to afford that considering they didn't even own a phone in their trailer. Also, the article linked to a different article with a video that had an interview with the captain of the Clinton PD and he said that Rob got a description of the vehicle wrong because it was dark, had "an alibi", "passed numerous polygraphs", and "always cooperated with investigators".

https://www.kctv5.com/news/investiga...5ca0322e5.html

There's the local article with the video. Here are some interesting tidbits:



The cops had a person of interest at the time, but they were quickly moved away from when they couldn't tie them to the green pickup with a fish mural. Now they think that lead is a dead end and that Rob was mistaken about the details. If I had to bet money, I'd say the informant was involved with drugs and someone from the area he had once lived had come to Clinton seeking revenge and Angie was targeted by mistake. The article below confirms that the informant was involved in a "significant narcotics case".

https://www.ky3.com/2021/04/15/old-e...bduction-case/

So was it a green truck or not? If not what type of truck did he actually chase another ford, a Chevy something else?

[TheCars1986]

Originally Posted by Montanacool360

So was it a green truck or not? If not what type of truck did he actually chase another ford, a Chevy something else?

Here is what the video says about the truck:

Back then the biggest lead was a green pickup truck with a fish mural on the back. That best guess in the dark was treated as a rock solid lead. "That's exactly how things get missed in an investigation."

[Montanacool360]

So they say Angie Abduction was due to a narcotics case in lake of the ozarks I’ve searched and searched old newspaper articles from 1991 going five years back but can’t find anything on a drug bust around the area let alone Missouri at the time. Does anyone know what narcotics case they are talking about? and how it got busted besides the confidential informant who got the letter in the mail?

[James T]

Originally Posted by Montanacool360

So they say Angie Abduction was due to a narcotics case in lake of the ozarks I’ve searched and searched old newspaper articles from 1991 going five years back but can’t find anything on a drug bust around the area let alone Missouri at the time. Does anyone know what narcotics case they are talking about? and how it got busted besides the confidential informant who got the letter in the mail?

It is quite possible it never came to court. My problem with this theory is-

1. The letter was dated the same day as the abduction. Clearly the letter writers intention was to scare the individual-so why would you write a letter making threats with the clear intention of dissuading them from talking to the cops again or testifying at a trial & then abduct their daughter the same night anyway?

2. Clearly whoever wrote this letter had confidential information on the informant-so either they had somebody on the inside working for them, or they themselves were in the role. Now are we really expected to believe they then cannot tell the difference between two women called Angela?

3. So even if you kidnap the wrong woman somehow-why kill her & her unborn child rather than just release her? Two counts of murder vs one count of kidnapping if you were caught for that-imagine it would be a mammoth difference in jail time-as in probably the rest of your life vs a year or possibly even a suspended sentence.

4. This other Angela was not harmed in any way & hasn't been in the 30 years since then-so why didn't they then grab her if they were intent on abducting her? The answer-there never was any intent to abduct her, only scare the father.

5. Are we supposed to believe this person managed to somehow botch the person he was supposed to be kidnapping-despite the person who wrote the letter knowing everything about her & her father-like where they lived, no doubt what school she attended or what job she worked etc. Then abducted her while she was on the phone to somebody-while she is giving a description of what he looks like & his vehicle. What sort of professionally hired kidnapper acts suspiciously in front of his intended target & abducts her in such a manner? Wouldn't he wait until she had finished the call-using the other phone booth to pretend to make a call as cover-rather than pacing around & staring at her? This reeks of an impatient sexual predator that just happened to be cruising the area & came across a lone woman in a deserted area.

[TheCars1986]

Originally Posted by James T

The letter was dated the same day as the abduction. Clearly the letter writers intention was to scare the individual-so why would you write a letter making threats with the clear intention of dissuading them from talking to the cops again or testifying at a trial & then abduct their daughter the same night anyway?

The letter specifically said they were going after the daughter. "We know where your foxy daughter is at she will see us soon." The informant's daughter lived in Clinton at the time.

Originally Posted by James T

Clearly whoever wrote this letter had confidential information on the informant-so either they had somebody on the inside working for them, or they themselves were in the role. Now are we really expected to believe they then cannot tell the difference between two women called Angela?

If they have a generic description of the daughter, then I don't think it's quite farfetched. Even if they had a picture of the daughter, her and Angela could have looked very similar. It's what the police allude to in their interviews.

Originally Posted by James T

So even if you kidnap the wrong woman somehow-why kill her & her unborn child rather than just release her? Two counts of murder vs one count of kidnapping if you were caught for that-imagine it would be a mammoth difference in jail time-as in probably the rest of your life vs a year or possibly even a suspended sentence.

They release her, she goes to the cops, they get busted...which is what they were seemingly trying to avoid by threatening the informant. Maybe the plan had nothing to do with killing the daughter but only to scare off the informant. When they realized it was the wrong woman, they had to kill her.

Originally Posted by James T

This other Angela was not harmed in any way & hasn't been in the 30 years since then-so why didn't they then grab her if they were intent on abducting her? The answer-there never was any intent to abduct her, only scare the father.

If the informant went ahead and helped dismantle a large drug ring it would be because the perpetrators were jailed.

Originally Posted by James T

Are we supposed to believe this person managed to somehow botch the person he was supposed to be kidnapping-despite the person who wrote the letter knowing everything about her & her father-like where they lived, no doubt what school she attended or what job she worked etc. Then abducted her while she was on the phone to somebody-while she is giving a description of what he looks like & his vehicle. What sort of professionally hired kidnapper acts suspiciously in front of his intended target & abducts her in such a manner? Wouldn't he wait until she had finished the call-using the other phone booth to pretend to make a call as cover-rather than pacing around & staring at her? This reeks of an impatient sexual predator that just happened to be cruising the area & came across a lone woman in a deserted area.

I don't disagree that, IMO, the desperate sex predator theory sounds more likely on the surface. I'd love to know what this recent information is about. Apparently whoever this person of interest was investigated early on but ruled out because they couldn't be connected to a green pickup. I find that interesting.

[bell83]

Originally Posted by James T

3. So even if you kidnap the wrong woman somehow-why kill her & her unborn child rather than just release her? Two counts of murder vs one count of kidnapping if you were caught for that-imagine it would be a mammoth difference in jail time-as in probably the rest of your life vs a year or possibly even a suspended sentence.

Just look at the Jesse James Hollywood case. They decided they needed to murder the kid, rather than release him, because he got told anyone involved with the kidnapping would get a life sentence. It's really not much of a stretch to understand why they killed her (if this scenario is correct), because you KNOW that she's going to the police after you release her. In addition, if they brought her across state lines (which weren't far away) to hold her, those are federal kidnapping charges with a mandatory life sentence if convicted. So a potential scenario is the guy grabs her, drives into Kansas to the place they're going to hold her. When the guy gets there, they realize they have the wrong girl. So they face life in prison, or they kill her and dispose of the body in such a way that three decades later, we still have no idea what happened.

I'm hoping that whatever apparent DNA evidence they said they had actually pans out, though I'm not sure how they'd have gotten DNA evidence that they are certain is attached to this case. The only crime scene they have is the phone booth, and I don't see how they can guarantee anything there. Like, cigarette butts, for example. It's a bank of phone booths, in a small town, in the early 90s. There's going to be dozens of cigarette butts there. I guess maybe it's possible she fought back enough to maybe make the guy bleed, and there was fresh blood at the scene, so they were able to collect that? I hope so. And I hope the ***hole isn't already dead. I wonder if they've put it into Parabon or whoever.

[Montanacool360]

I’ve always thought she might have been taken across the state line to Kansas or even Nebraska or Iowa but that’s a much further drive. Also from websleuths on Angie’s thread there was a user that posted in 2010 that Angela Hammond was not the intended target and that the guy was after her cousin Aka the other Angie who was at the time working the night shift at a gas station in or near Clinton but thinks he made a mistake and thought that the other Angie had the night off and was on the pay phone not realizing it was the wrong Angela.

I’m not sure on the mistaken identity theory but i do wonder if Clinton police actually did look up every owner in Missouri of a late 1960s to early 1970s Ford truck back then and i wonder if they also looked at any Chevy truck owners in Missouri just in case Rob got it wrong.

I’ve always thought two theories on this

1. Guy abducts Angela and takes her to rural area either near lake of the ozarks or Warsaw he forces her out of the car rapes her and then either shoot her or stabs her to death and buried her on private farmland somewhere and then he dismantled the truck or ripped the decal off then painted the truck.

2. He abducts Angie takes her to a rural area either in Missouri or Kansas near private farmland kills her by strangulation or stabbing her while she is in the truck then buried the truck with her inside it on farmland somewhere and that is why no one saw the truck again.

The guy could’ve been wearing a disguise but since what he was wearing and driving adds to the fact that he could’ve been a farmer or rancher who owned land somewhere in Missouri or Kansas

That’s just my theory though. I have my doubts about it being due to a drug bust but it also wouldn’t surprise me at this point either.