Angela Hammond - Girl abducted from phone booth

[RobinW]

Originally Posted by dynoguy88

Side note: The origin of this thread is amazing. It started in 2005 with just a few responses (one of them me) and then it went dead for two years.

Starting in 2007, it became a 'hot topic' and has now been ongoing for 10 years and 77 pages. If this isn't the longest thread in our history, it's got to AT LEAST be in the top 5.

Just hit the "replies" button to organize the threads by length. This one is currently at #4, baby! Just over 50 more posts and this can even surpass Tim McClure!

[freakbook]

Originally Posted by JRA2000TL

What motive would he really have, anyway?

[Zorzman]

I froze the image of the newspaper during the segment and read the article. It said Rob and her ex were both given polygraph tests but the results were not released. The reason I believe his innocence is why would you make up such a scenario? A high speed chase at around 11 in the center of town? You'd have to pray that not one person was in the area at the time to prove you wrong. A cop on patrol, a person heading to work, people leaving a party, just one person could come forward and say they were in the area at the time and saw nothing would prove your story false. Why not make up a harder story to prove false or a more vague one? He's either innocent, or the luckiest SOB in the world for his fake story to work out. Also wouldn't pay phone records from the phone she used confirm his story?

[freakbook]

Originally Posted by Zorzman

The reason I believe his innocence is why would you make up such a scenario? A high speed chase at around 11 in the center of town? You'd have to pray that not one person was in the area at the time to prove you wrong. A cop on patrol, a person heading to work, people leaving a party, just one person could come forward and say they were in the area at the time and saw nothing would prove your story false. Why not make up a harder story to prove false or a more vague one?

This is an excellent point. Lying about a high speed chase in the middle of downtown would be dumb, he could've easily been caught. On the flip side, no one ever said that they seen it, nor heard Angela scream Rob's name, so I'll go with lucky. I found it weird that no one had heard, or seen anything. Especially with bars, and restaurants around. No one said they heard a loud "ROB!" and tires screeching from any of the establishments nearby, unless downtown at that time in that town was completely shut down.

Originally Posted by Zorzman

Why not make up a harder story to prove false or a more vague one?

Because if his story sounds more legit, then the more innocent he seems. He gave a vague description about the man's appearance, but a super detailed description of the truck, and the chase scene. And to me he was "creating" parts of his story so he could seem believable. He chased the truck(so it must be true since he chased it). Angie is really kidnapped (since she screamed his name then it must be true). The biggest problem is, he can't give us the most important detail.....the license plate number. Angie described everything about this man and his vehicle, but not the license plate? He couldn't glimpse at the plate while chasing behind it? His story is hard to prove, but its vague where it counts the most. A green truck with a fish decal in the back is nothing. I'm sure that's like 60% of Missouri. His description of the kidnapper is garbage because it's vague, and dirty + overalls + beard = 90% of farmers in Missouri. But the one thing that can catch the bastard the quickest.....there's no mention of.


You're absolutely right that he was ballsy to lie about that (if he did). But the fact that no one heard/seen anything in a downtown area makes it 50/50. Maybe he lucked up, maybe he's telling the truth.. but since it can't be confirmed I'll go with lie. I find it hard she saw his car and screamed his name while being kidnapped.

Originally Posted by Zorzman

Also wouldn't pay phone records from the phone she used confirm his story?

It would. Unfortunately, not the conversation. It just shows that he talked to someone on the payphone, what was actually said is from Rob's mouth. She could've been calling to break up with him, and he ran up there to confront her. He could've been talking to Angela's ex about where to dump her body. The world may never know what was actually said in that phone conversation.

[dynoguy88]

Originally Posted by freakbook

This is an excellent point. Lying about a high speed chase in the middle of downtown would be dumb, he could've easily been caught. On the flip side, no one ever said that they seen it, nor heard Angela scream Rob's name, so I'll go with lucky. I found it weird that no one had heard, or seen anything. Especially with bars, and restaurants around. No one said they heard a loud "ROB!" and tires screeching from any of the establishments nearby, unless downtown at that time in that town was completely shut down.

From the research I have done online, I get the impression that the town was completely shut down, which wouldn't be that surprising at 11:45 p.m.

According to Wikipedia, the downtown square of Clinton serves as a center for community commerce and public affairs. The square also serves as a parking lot. It features a central courthouse and numerous small shops and eating facilities. More than a dozen churches are found in the community, a few of which predate 1900. (One of those churches was right across the street from the phone booth Angela talked on.) Small motels and taverns are on the outskirts of town on all sides. Though, I don't know if that may have been different in 1991 when this all went down.

My parents have a summer cottage on Lake Michigan and the nearest town is small, much like Clinton. It completely shuts down around 8:00 p.m. except for a gas station or two. The majority of the kids who grew up there immediately move away after college because there's nothing to do in the area. I wonder if Clinton might be the same way.

Regardless, it does not surprise me if a small place like Clinton would be dead around midnight. So no witnesses being around is unfortunate but not out of the ordinary.

[freakbook]

Originally Posted by dynoguy88

From the research I have done online, I get the impression that the town was completely shut down, which wouldn't be that surprising at 11:45 p.m.

According to Wikipedia, the downtown square of Clinton serves as a center for community commerce and public affairs. The square also serves as a parking lot. It features a central courthouse and numerous small shops and eating facilities. More than a dozen churches are found in the community, a few of which predate 1900. (One of those churches was right across the street from the phone booth Angela talked on.) Small motels and taverns are on the outskirts of town on all sides. Though, I don't know if that may have been different in 1991 when this all went down.

My parents have a summer cottage on Lake Michigan and the nearest town is small, much like Clinton. It completely shuts down around 8:00 p.m. except for a gas station or two. The majority of the kids who grew up there immediately move away after college because there's nothing to do in the area. I wonder if Clinton might be the same way.

Regardless, it does not surprise me if a small place like Clinton would be dead around midnight. So no witnesses being around is unfortunate but not out of the ordinary.

Yeah, true. Initially I had typed about more rural "downtown" areas shutting down earlier than say a more populated city like D.C. You confirmed what I was thinking, thanks Dynoguy.

So with the town being shut down earlier, that leaves us at square one. No one around to witness anything means that anything could've happened.

[TheCars1986]

This is the spot where Rob's vehicle stalled. The abductor was turning left on Charles E. Calvird Drive and was most likely headed to highway 52 to God knows where after that.

If you change the date on Google to 2008, you can see how desolate the area was even then. I can only imagine what it was like in 1991. Rob was approximately 1.5 miles away from the pay phones. So the abductor had a huge head start before the police were notified.

[freakbook]

Originally Posted by TheCars1986

This is the spot where Rob's vehicle stalled. The abductor was turning left on Charles E. Calvird Drive and was most likely headed to highway 52 to God knows where after that.

If you change the date on Google to 2008, you can see how desolate the area was even then. I can only imagine what it was like in 1991. Rob was approximately 1.5 miles away from the pay phones. So the abductor had a huge head start before the police were notified.

Yeah, the "abductor" sure did. I wonder if Rob was trying to drive away after the murder, but his car broke down? Maybe the area where he hid her body was rocky, or muddy and he had troubles getting out? Thanks for the link, it confirms what I was saying about the area all along. Look how desolate and rural it is. Seems like the perfect place to hide a body. Especially in a swamp/lake area.

Also, if we look how desolate it is, then him hiding her body in the 45 minute time frame makes more sense than before. I thought the area was more downtownish with the rural area being a bit ways out. If he was in this rural of an area where his truck broke down, then he had more than enough time/space to hide her. He didn't have to waste time driving out to a more rural area, because he was already there.

Originally Posted by TheCars1986

So the abductor had a huge head start before the police were notified.

You've actually helped me proved my case, thanks. Given how desolate, and rural the area is, did the abductor have a "huge head start", or did Rob finish earlier in the 45 minutes because he didn't have to go far to dump her body? Perhaps he had a couple of minutes left over to think up a story as he sat in the truck when the transmission blew out before he contacted the police. He did have a "head start".

[Jon]

Originally Posted by TheCars1986

This is the spot where Rob's vehicle stalled. The abductor was turning left on Charles E. Calvird Drive and was most likely headed to highway 52 to God knows where after that.

If you change the date on Google to 2008, you can see how desolate the area was even then. I can only imagine what it was like in 1991. Rob was approximately 1.5 miles away from the pay phones. So the abductor had a huge head start before the police were notified.

Thank You! The location of the car is very significant in this case...my question for anyone who believes Rob Shafer was involved in Angela Hammond's disappearance is: where do you think he was going when his car stalled? Why was he driving in that direction? (It's an honest question, I'm not trying to be antagonistic)

[Drakken]

Originally Posted by Jon

Thank You! The location of the car is very significant in this case...my question for anyone who believes Rob Shafer was involved in Angela Hammond's disappearance is: where do you think he was going when his car stalled? Why was he driving in that direction? (It's an honest question, I'm not trying to be antagonistic)

Where would Rob's residence at the time be on Google Map?

[freakbook]

Originally Posted by Jon

Thank You! The location of the car is very significant in this case...my question for anyone who believes Rob Shafer was involved in Angela Hammond's disappearance is: where do you think he was going when his car stalled? Why was he driving in that direction? (It's an honest question, I'm not trying to be antagonistic)

My first thought was that he was going to run away and his car broke down, or leave for a little bit and come back when the heat died down, and tell a more exaggerated "chase story".

Then I started thinking that maybe he was driving back to the crime scene, perhaps thinking if he should "rehide" her, but had second thoughts, or his car broke down.

[Jon]

Cars86, Looking at the map - did he really walk all the way to the payphones from his stalled car to call police? I find that very odd. Why not knock on people's doors in that situation?

[Zorzman]

Originally Posted by freakbook

This is an excellent point. Lying about a high speed chase in the middle of downtown would be dumb, he could've easily been caught. On the flip side, no one ever said that they seen it, nor heard Angela scream Rob's name, so I'll go with lucky. I found it weird that no one had heard, or seen anything. Especially with bars, and restaurants around. No one said they heard a loud "ROB!" and tires screeching from any of the establishments nearby, unless downtown at that time in that town was completely shut down.



Because if his story sounds more legit, then the more innocent he seems. He gave a vague description about the man's appearance, but a super detailed description of the truck, and the chase scene. And to me he was "creating" parts of his story so he could seem believable. He chased the truck(so it must be true since he chased it). Angie is really kidnapped (since she screamed his name then it must be true). The biggest problem is, he can't give us the most important detail.....the license plate number. Angie described everything about this man and his vehicle, but not the license plate? He couldn't glimpse at the plate while chasing behind it? His story is hard to prove, but its vague where it counts the most. A green truck with a fish decal in the back is nothing. I'm sure that's like 60% of Missouri. His description of the kidnapper is garbage because it's vague, and dirty + overalls + beard = 90% of farmers in Missouri. But the one thing that can catch the bastard the quickest.....there's no mention of.


You're absolutely right that he was ballsy to lie about that (if he did). But the fact that no one heard/seen anything in a downtown area makes it 50/50. Maybe he lucked up, maybe he's telling the truth.. but since it can't be confirmed I'll go with lie. I find it hard she saw his car and screamed his name while being kidnapped.




It would. Unfortunately, not the conversation. It just shows that he talked to someone on the payphone, what was actually said is from Rob's mouth. She could've been calling to break up with him, and he ran up there to confront her. He could've been talking to Angela's ex about where to dump her body. The world may never know what was actually said in that phone conversation.

Except a decal of a fish jumping out of water isn't vague. Why not just say an old green Ford truck? Now the police have something to track down. He also described an older truck model which would have been 20 years old roughly. How many trucks 20 years old are still on the road at the time? That also helped police narrow down their search. If he made the story up, why not use a newer truck that was more common and harder to track down? You'd want to make it harder for police to find the truck not easier if you were guilty. Also, according to the charlieproject, two other witnesses did see this man and his truck around the parking lot. Yes, not getting the license plate bothers me, but there could been a legitimate reason for him not getting it since the police cleared him. Maybe there was too much dirt on it, maybe he couldn't get close enough to see it clearly. He did say there was dust kicking up from the truck which could have made it hard to see. I wished unsolved mysteries had asked him that question.
I'm wondering how long did Rob take to report this crime? If it was an hour after the phone call, that would not give him enough time to hide the body sufficiently. That's why I think the phone records are important. If he waited hours after the call was made, then yes he might have been able to kill her and hide the body.
That being said, I do think it may have been possible for Rob to have killed her, but I just don't see enough evidence.

[TheCars1986]

Originally Posted by Drakken

Where would Rob's residence at the time be on Google Map?

Rob lived with Angela in a mobile home. But he was watching his younger brother at his parents house at the time. And in various newspaper articles all that it says is that the house where Rob left from to go to the convenience store was a "few blocks away".

[Drakken]

Originally Posted by TheCars1986

Rob lived with Angela in a mobile home. But he was watching his younger brother at his parents house at the time. And in various newspaper articles all that it says is that the house where Rob left from to go to the convenience store was a "few blocks away".

Sorry, I wanted to refer to the house he was babysitting his brother in.

Still, where is mobile home would lay on the map can also help tremendously to evaluate if he had time to commit the crime before reporting it to the police.

If he did kill Angela and got rid of the body, he must have changed clothes and cleaned himself somewhere. His mobile home would be the obvious place... but how would have reached his home while his car's transmission died down? If he called someone to give him a lift, that means more witnesses... and more time passing.

That is why the "Rob did it" theory does not make sense: He would need to be the Flash. There is just not enough time between the abduction and time police arrived for Rob to realistically commit that crime unseen by anyone, change his clothes, remove evidence, all this before his transmission dies.