Why did they change Mike so much between Season 1 and 2? - Sitcoms Online Message Boards

TMC · 08-05-2016, 05:57 AM

You could tell he was probably conservative leaning, but he wasn't obnoxious about his politics. He was well educated and well traveled and cultured and was genuinely a great husband and father, who would help with things around the house like doing the laundry without any fuss. All in all, Mike Baxter was a decidedly well rounded and complex person. I thought that Mike seemed more like a real character in Season 1. He wasn't a political cartoon.

But something clearly happened between Season 1 and 2, because a lot of these characteristics seemed to disappear. It's like they tried to turn him into Archie Bunker. He suddenly had the political knowledge one gets from scanning bad headlines, he doesn't seem as smart anymore. He's more obnoxious and makes blatantly racist (saying the Laraby's are going to bring over malt liquor) and sexist (saying that a man sitting in a chair while a woman works is the way things should be) comments.

Whereas Mike in Season 1 challenged the image of what some people see a Midwestern conservative man as (educated, cultured, genuinely loving to his family), Mike in Season 2 plays into all the bad stereotypes of what people think of as the conservative Midwestern man (racist, sexist, oblivious, obnoxious). He no longer seems to care or talk about his great adventures traveling the world and absorbing different cultures. He's just been reduced to the over the top political joke who puts 50 Romney signs in his yard and skits shouts "Nobama" and "Hellary" all day.

JO Sweet Heart · 08-05-2016, 09:41 PM

I haven't noticed any difference.

God bless you always!!!

Holly

P.S. I am guessing that the reason why he is so annoying with his politics is because everyone else is too. When one opinion is put out there, what do you think will be put out there next? .....Another opinion.

TMC · 01-22-2017, 03:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JO Sweet Heart

I haven't noticed any difference.

God bless you always!!!

Holly

P.S. I am guessing that the reason why he is so annoying with his politics is because everyone else is too. When one opinion is put out there, what do you think will be put out there next? .....Another opinion.

If you go back and watch the first season, it was the typical family sitcom with very mild situations and no political stuff. It was actually kind of an abrupt switch if like me, you watched the last episode of the first season and then immediately afterwards watched the first episode of the second season.

That is part of why Alexander Krosney was fired and replaced with Amanda Fuller. It was decided to go in a different direction and she didn't like it.

TMC · 05-19-2017, 02:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JO Sweet Heart

I haven't noticed any difference.

God bless you always!!!

Holly

P.S. I am guessing that the reason why he is so annoying with his politics is because everyone else is too. When one opinion is put out there, what do you think will be put out there next? .....Another opinion.

Right leaning comedy like that usually consists of jokes about how dumb the government is and how cool guns are. It’s just plain boring, stale, cliched and predictable.

Take a look instead at Parks & Recreations for a better idea of handling that sort of thing. The Ron Swanson character worked because he was the stereotypical libertarian, who also had hardcore Democrat Leslie Knope to play off of. And they still at the end of the day, respected the hell out of each other.

Tim Allen on the other hand, occasionally added some liberal dweeb as a straw-man, who always lost because Tim knew about the “good ole days”. In essence, Tim had to have give himself some sort of hero complex on LMS.

Maybe his wife played by Nancy Travis, should have been a MASSIVE character to play off and she never was. If anything, Tim needed a Democrat who would win every once in a while and not just be a joke.

TMC · 08-15-2017, 02:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TMC

If you go back and watch the first season, it was the typical family sitcom with very mild situations and no political stuff. It was actually kind of an abrupt switch if like me, you watched the last episode of the first season and then immediately afterwards watched the first episode of the second season.

That is part of why Alexander Krosney was fired and replaced with Amanda Fuller. It was decided to go in a different direction and she didn't like it.

Tim Allen for a lack of a better word, seemed to envision Last Man Standing as All in the Family 2.0 if we were supposed to be "laughing with" Archie Bunker instead of "laughing at him" (which was Norman Lear's intent).

Larry Weston · 09-03-2019, 09:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TMC

(racist, sexist, oblivious, obnoxious)

I can only agree with that statement.
I just started with season 2 and i must say im a little shocked about that show, partly already in season 1. I find it surprising, that it was OK, to air such a controversial show. I mean all that obama-bashing and all the stuff mentioned above. I'm not even involved in US politics, since im not live there, but that is quite odd to see - also the open advertising for Romney.
Once he sayd "Mankind is at top of the food-chain, and as a american were even at the summit". That really upset me.
It's almost like it upsets more, than it makes laugh.
I have only 4 seasons and i guess i won't continue.
In "Home Improvement" he was way more funny, why did he change so much ?

TMC · 10-02-2019, 02:17 AM

I don't know how much merit this has, but I've read the suggestion that in the time spent in between "hitting it big" with Home Improvement and now with Last Man Standing, Tim Allen has spent less and less time honing his craft. In other words, he pretty much forgot how to be funny as he was in his previous roles like Home Improvement and Toy Story. On Last Man Standing, Tim Allen isn't really so much "acting" as he is simply spewing forth his own political beliefs. And yet, it’s supposed to be funny when he does this. I suppose on the show, he just sensationalizes it more than it is in reality what he’s said.

SledgeBarone · 06-06-2020, 03:03 AM

I can't find the article, but I remember reading that Tim Allen hooked up with a producer (don't recall his name) who wanted to start pushing the political stuff. Funny thing was that Allen saw a picture of the guy protesting against the "lying president" (or something like that) and immediately agreed with him. Then the guy told Allen the picture was from protesting George W. Bush and the Iraq War.

Heenan Fan · 06-06-2020, 07:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Larry Weston

I can only agree with that statement.
I just started with season 2 and i must say im a little shocked about that show, partly already in season 1. I find it surprising, that it was OK, to air such a controversial show. I mean all that obama-bashing and all the stuff mentioned above. I'm not even involved in US politics, since im not live there, but that is quite odd to see - also the open advertising for Romney.
Once he sayd "Mankind is at top of the food-chain, and as a american were even at the summit". That really upset me.
It's almost like it upsets more, than it makes laugh.
I have only 4 seasons and i guess i won't continue.
In "Home Improvement" he was way more funny, why did he change so much ?

Don't let the door hit you on your ass on the way out.

If you don't live here, why are you obsessed over our politics. By the way, it's a rhetorical question. I can give two farts about your outsiders opinion.

SledgeBarone · 06-07-2020, 04:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SledgeBarone

I can't find the article, but I remember reading that Tim Allen hooked up with a producer (don't recall his name) who wanted to start pushing the political stuff. Funny thing was that Allen saw a picture of the guy protesting against the "lying president" (or something like that) and immediately agreed with him. Then the guy told Allen the picture was from protesting George W. Bush and the Iraq War.

Not exactly the article, but it backs up what I recalled:

https://www.nytimes.com/2015/01/11/a...f-writers.html

Quote:

Enter Mr. Doyle, a casual man with white hair, a mischievous streak and liberal views. During his first meeting with Mr. Allen, the subject of politics came up. The star had looked the writer up on the movie database IMDB.com, Mr. Doyle said, “and there’s a picture of me on IMDB standing in front of the White House holding up a sign that says, ‘Liar.’ And he said, ‘Yeah, yeah, Obama’s a big liar.’ And I said, ‘No no, that’s an old picture.’ ”

From that conversation, Mr. Doyle thought Mr. Allen’s character should indulge his Republican views more, something the show had only touched on. The second season was starting the Friday before the 2012 presidential election, and Mr. Doyle centered the first episode around Mike’s fervent support of Mitt Romney.

“It may have been heavy-handed, it may have been clumsy, it may have been shallow, but we startled people a little bit,” Mr. Doyle said. “Because sitcoms at this point don’t do that stuff. They don’t mention politics ever.”

https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0236506

TMC · 06-09-2020, 03:56 AM

Last Man Standing seems to be one of those shows that goes out of its way to make rather poorly written cheap-shot attacks on liberalism itself. In any other comedic show, they may either point out hypocrisy (e.g. on South Park or American Dad) or gently skewer the foibles of those who may be a bit over-earnest (e.g. on Portlandia, Dharma & Greg, or Parks & Recreation). The common formula for LMS however, appears to be putting the right wing against the left wing and having them fight for an entire episode about an issue. Then one side wins and they hash it out all while Tim Allen's character says in so many words "surprised it worked, here's some more propaganda about why I'm surprised it worked" or "I told you to do it my way". That may be fine in theory if you want to make a show about a diverse family with different opinions, who are living and loving together (a la Modern Family). But then, every LMS episode is finished off with Tim Allen's character talking about how he, his idea or side was right the entire time and sometimes you just got to "let the idiots win". That is generally the gist of his diatribes at the end of every episode to put things into perspective.

favoriteshow · 06-09-2020, 05:46 PM

I haven't seen enough of this show to know about what was described above.

I tune in for about two minutes (for post Home Improvement curiosity factor) and change the channel, anytime I channel flip. The laugh track, and the manicured reality TV fixed up house setting doesn't appeal to me.

It airs extensively on WGN America which I get only on my Fios set top box but not on Sling, Philo or any of the main OTT carriers that I've tried. After reading through this thread, it seems like a show that would not appeal to me, and maybe WGN America is less of an appeal for the OTT carriers because of the content. (At one time, WGN was such a cool channel to get on a lineup).

Just curious though, is Tim Allen's character still pro-Romney guy?

RWKATE · 04-03-2021, 11:48 PM

Always remember if you don't like something, don't watch. Grow up and learn a few life lessons and get out of American conversations.

RWKATE · 04-03-2021, 11:51 PM

Yep. We are still in America the land of the free and Blessed By God. We can have our opinions. If you do not agree that is your right if you are an AMERICAN.

Larry Weston · 04-29-2021, 03:10 PM

Heenan Fan
It looks, like "the door hitted your ass, on the way in."
Why am i interested in politics and sitcoms... Well, because i just am. And not US politics and sitcoms exclusively. And certainly not obsessed. Reverse to ignorant others, im curious what happens abroad, in other countryes on this world.
If we're already in politics: You say "I dont give a fart about other opinions." But i guess, you have to agree, that your governement has opinions about other countryes all the time. (Economy, politics)
Im quite shocked, that you actualy claim to be a "Moderator". Are you always that harsh? Shouldnt a Mod. be diplomatic? And neutral!

RWKATE
Why should or would only americans be allowed to participate in "american discussions"?
Thats a odd point of view. A big life lesson is, that there's a whole wide world out there.
This is a forum on a website, where thousands of people from all over the world are participating. And write theyr opinions.

08-05-2016, 05:57 AM	#1
TMC Member Forum Idol Join Date: Jan 09, 2001 Posts: 125,090	Why did they change Mike so much between Season 1 and 2? You could tell he was probably conservative leaning, but he wasn't obnoxious about his politics. He was well educated and well traveled and cultured and was genuinely a great husband and father, who would help with things around the house like doing the laundry without any fuss. All in all, Mike Baxter was a decidedly well rounded and complex person. I thought that Mike seemed more like a real character in Season 1. He wasn't a political cartoon. But something clearly happened between Season 1 and 2, because a lot of these characteristics seemed to disappear. It's like they tried to turn him into Archie Bunker. He suddenly had the political knowledge one gets from scanning bad headlines, he doesn't seem as smart anymore. He's more obnoxious and makes blatantly racist (saying the Laraby's are going to bring over malt liquor) and sexist (saying that a man sitting in a chair while a woman works is the way things should be) comments. Whereas Mike in Season 1 challenged the image of what some people see a Midwestern conservative man as (educated, cultured, genuinely loving to his family), Mike in Season 2 plays into all the bad stereotypes of what people think of as the conservative Midwestern man (racist, sexist, oblivious, obnoxious). He no longer seems to care or talk about his great adventures traveling the world and absorbing different cultures. He's just been reduced to the over the top political joke who puts 50 Romney signs in his yard and skits shouts "Nobama" and "Hellary" all day.
	Last edited by TMC; 06-01-2021 at 08:14 PM.

08-05-2016, 09:41 PM	#2
JO Sweet Heart Member Forum Veteran Join Date: Mar 11, 2012 Location: East Tennessee Posts: 7,842	I haven't noticed any difference. God bless you always!!! Holly P.S. I am guessing that the reason why he is so annoying with his politics is because everyone else is too. When one opinion is put out there, what do you think will be put out there next? .....Another opinion.
	__________________ Go here to check out my most favorite singer, James Otto, when you can!

06-09-2020, 03:56 AM	#11
TMC Member Forum Idol Join Date: Jan 09, 2001 Posts: 125,090	Last Man Standing seems to be one of those shows that goes out of its way to make rather poorly written cheap-shot attacks on liberalism itself. In any other comedic show, they may either point out hypocrisy (e.g. on South Park or American Dad) or gently skewer the foibles of those who may be a bit over-earnest (e.g. on Portlandia, Dharma & Greg, or Parks & Recreation). The common formula for LMS however, appears to be putting the right wing against the left wing and having them fight for an entire episode about an issue. Then one side wins and they hash it out all while Tim Allen's character says in so many words "surprised it worked, here's some more propaganda about why I'm surprised it worked" or "I told you to do it my way". That may be fine in theory if you want to make a show about a diverse family with different opinions, who are living and loving together (a la Modern Family). But then, every LMS episode is finished off with Tim Allen's character talking about how he, his idea or side was right the entire time and sometimes you just got to "let the idiots win". That is generally the gist of his diatribes at the end of every episode to put things into perspective.
	Last edited by TMC; 05-15-2021 at 12:47 AM.

10-02-2019, 02:17 AM	#7
TMC Member Forum Idol Join Date: Jan 09, 2001 Posts: 125,090	I don't know how much merit this has, but I've read the suggestion that in the time spent in between "hitting it big" with Home Improvement and now with Last Man Standing, Tim Allen has spent less and less time honing his craft. In other words, he pretty much forgot how to be funny as he was in his previous roles like Home Improvement and Toy Story. On Last Man Standing, Tim Allen isn't really so much "acting" as he is simply spewing forth his own political beliefs. And yet, it’s supposed to be funny when he does this. I suppose on the show, he just sensationalizes it more than it is in reality what he’s said.

06-06-2020, 03:03 AM	#8
SledgeBarone Member Senior Member Join Date: Apr 01, 2020 Posts: 1,930	I can't find the article, but I remember reading that Tim Allen hooked up with a producer (don't recall his name) who wanted to start pushing the political stuff. Funny thing was that Allen saw a picture of the guy protesting against the "lying president" (or something like that) and immediately agreed with him. Then the guy told Allen the picture was from protesting George W. Bush and the Iraq War.

06-09-2020, 05:46 PM	#12
favoriteshow Member Forum Regular Join Date: Dec 08, 2018 Posts: 587	I haven't seen enough of this show to know about what was described above. I tune in for about two minutes (for post Home Improvement curiosity factor) and change the channel, anytime I channel flip. The laugh track, and the manicured reality TV fixed up house setting doesn't appeal to me. It airs extensively on WGN America which I get only on my Fios set top box but not on Sling, Philo or any of the main OTT carriers that I've tried. After reading through this thread, it seems like a show that would not appeal to me, and maybe WGN America is less of an appeal for the OTT carriers because of the content. (At one time, WGN was such a cool channel to get on a lineup). Just curious though, is Tim Allen's character still pro-Romney guy?

04-03-2021, 11:48 PM	#13
RWKATE Member Forum Cub Join Date: Mar 22, 2021 Location: NEW YORK Posts: 2	Always remember if you don't like something, don't watch. Grow up and learn a few life lessons and get out of American conversations.

04-03-2021, 11:51 PM	#14
RWKATE Member Forum Cub Join Date: Mar 22, 2021 Location: NEW YORK Posts: 2	Yep. We are still in America the land of the free and Blessed By God. We can have our opinions. If you do not agree that is your right if you are an AMERICAN.

04-29-2021, 03:10 PM	#15
Larry Weston Member Occasional Poster Join Date: Sep 28, 2016 Location: Switzerland Posts: 8	Heenan Fan It looks, like "the door hitted your ass, on the way in." Why am i interested in politics and sitcoms... Well, because i just am. And not US politics and sitcoms exclusively. And certainly not obsessed. Reverse to ignorant others, im curious what happens abroad, in other countryes on this world. If we're already in politics: You say "I dont give a fart about other opinions." But i guess, you have to agree, that your governement has opinions about other countryes all the time. (Economy, politics) Im quite shocked, that you actualy claim to be a "Moderator". Are you always that harsh? Shouldnt a Mod. be diplomatic? And neutral! RWKATE Why should or would only americans be allowed to participate in "american discussions"? Thats a odd point of view. A big life lesson is, that there's a whole wide world out there. This is a forum on a website, where thousands of people from all over the world are participating. And write theyr opinions.