Did Irma Kalish do more harm than good to the series?

[TMC]

Irma Kalish was if I'm not mistaken, the showrunner for The Facts of Life during its final two seasons. So she was pretty much there during the Cloris Leachman/post-Charlotte Rae seasons. I recently started a thread asking about so-called "bad" TV showrunners throughout history. I have brought up Irma Kalish before in here, but I didn't really go far in detail.

The main knocks that I've heard elsewhere about The Facts of Life during Irma Kalish's tenure as showrunner/executive producer is that the show began focusing on one character at a time per episode, instead of the whole gang. There would rarely if ever, even be a B-plot. She also expanded Mackenzie Astin's role by having Beverly Ann adopt Andy. And she introduced the decidedly unnecessary Pippa. The point is that both Andy and Pippa naturally felt like the resident Cousin Olivers of TFOL.

Come Season 9, it seemed like the writers began recycling plots they had just written. For instance, Rick and Jo's dad meet and don't get along at first. A couple of episodes later, Snake and Jeff meet and don't get along at first. And a couple of episodes later, Tootie and Jeff's grandma meet and don't get along at first.

[FOL-FAN-ITA]

Irma Kalish also wrote episodes for the last couple of seasons of Good Times and did a terrible job too

[TV Guy]

I thought she was a terrible showrunner. I don’t understand all the love for season 8 around here. I’ll take season 7 over 8, any day, when the longtime writers and producers were still around. Season 8 and 9 are written and produced by pretty much a completely different team. But people pretty much agree that season 9 was awful. She also did such a poor job setting up the finale and follow up series that NBC declined to pick it up.

[80s Dude]

The girls were all grown up or close to growing up as the show ended. They needed some new kids to build more plot lines around. Pippa was suppose to be in Coed Easton spinoff.

[Christopher]

Originally Posted by TV Guy

I don’t understand all the love for season 8 around here.

Season 8 is just like any other previous season. Unlike season 9, we see the girls in season 8 care about not only each other but those that come into their lives. Season 9 they're giving each other the F.U whenever someone has a problem. Most noticeable is A House Divided. Whenever two of the girls are fighting, the others get involved to help them stay friends. In A House Divided, they could care less about Natalie and Tootie fighting. Jo even said one of em could move. It was very different compared to the previous season where Jo got in the middle to offer advice to mend the fight between Natalie and Tootie. Season 8 showcases the girls strong friendship with each other.

Season 8 also shows the girls helping those around them. They were helping Beverly Ann recover from her divorce in season 8 by setting her up with a date and taking her on trips. They were also supportive when she wanted to adopt Andy. In season 9 they do a complete 180 with Pippa. Here's a foreign exchange student who they treat as a pest than a person. They were constantly pushing her out of their lives. This isn't how they acted in season 8 and years prior to someone and it surely wasn't how Mrs. Garrett taught them to treat another regardless of age difference.

Season 8 also had the girls in clothing that matched the type of character they were. Jo was always in jeans or pants. In season 9 they made Jo a girlie girl with red nail polish and skirts. They also loaded her face up with tons of makeup. That wasn't the Jo we saw the previous 7 years.

Season 9 was a whole new experience for not only the characters but viewers to see. It's like they knew going into season 8 they needed to keep things the same. When season 9 came around, they tried something different and it failed.

[RetroGuy2000]

Originally Posted by TV Guy

I thought she was a terrible showrunner. I don’t understand all the love for season 8 around here.

I feel like the first half of Season 8 was a return to classic form, in some sense. We got a strong two-parter with Mrs. Garrett, albeit the end of her character. We got the return of the Lost Girls, which never would have happened on a lesser show. The girls finally got a second bedroom in "Another Room" (that should have happened years earlier). So for me, Season 8 starts off strong, and sort of devolves near the end, but I can totally see where fans might like it.

I’ll take season 7 over 8, any day, when the longtime writers and producers were still around.

Most of the long-time writers, including Jerry Meyer, Linda Marsh, Margie Peters, and Kimberly Hill, all left after Season 6.

Jack Elinson was only around for a single Season 7 episode: "The Agent". Of the major writers, only Deidre Fay and Stuart Wolpert were left, and they hadn't started writing until Season 3.

Season 8 and 9 are written and produced by pretty much a completely different team.

No, the changes actually took place a year earlier, with the departure of Meyer, Marsh, Peters, and Hill. Season 7 saw the addition of major writers Michael Maurer, Martha Williamson, and Jane Anderson, along with several new one-off writers.

[TV Guy]

Originally Posted by RetroGuy2000

Jack Elinson was only around for a single Season 7 episode: "The Agent". Of the major writers, only Deidre Fay and Stuart Wolpert were left, and they hadn't started writing until Season 3.

No, the changes actually took place a year earlier, with the departure of Meyer, Marsh, Peters, and Hill. Season 7 saw the addition of major writers Michael Maurer, Martha Williamson, and Jane Anderson, along with several new one-off writers.

Jack Elinson was around for more than one episode; he was the showrunner for the second half of the season, after Fay and Wolpert stepped down. Yep - there were a lot of new writers, but I should clarify - this is the last time that series vets were in charge. Season 8 is when an outsider came in to be showrunner and feels like it. I do agree that 7 feels more like 8 than 6 does. But 7 still has the girls acting like an ensemble and has some good banter. That felt like it was declining in season 8. You also had this outsider as the elder figure, and that felt contrived - she never fit in to me.

I agree that Mrs. G’s farewell was good. But Irma Kalish had not been brought in yet. Paul Haggis (a later Oscar winning writer and producer!), who started as a writer in season 6, was the showrunner for those two episodes. Then he was fired, and Richard Gurman and Katherine Green were showrunners for a few episodes. Then they were let go, and Irma Kalish was brought in. I like Haggis’ episodes in seasons 6 and 7; I wonder how the series would have felt if he had stayed.

[valentina warner]

Originally Posted by TV Guy

Jack Elinson was around for more than one episode; he was the showrunner for the second half of the season, after Fay and Wolpert stepped down. Yep - there were a lot of new writers, but I should clarify - this is the last time that series vets were in charge. Season 8 is when an outsider came in to be showrunner and feels like it. I do agree that 7 feels more like 8 than 6 does. But 7 still has the girls acting like an ensemble and has some good banter. That felt like it was declining in season 8. You also had this outsider as the elder figure, and that felt contrived - she never fit in to me.

I agree that Mrs. G’s farewell was good. But Irma Kalish had not been brought in yet. Paul Haggis (a later Oscar winning writer and producer!), who started as a writer in season 6, was the showrunner for those two episodes. Then he was fired, and Richard Gurman and Katherine Green were showrunners for a few episodes. Then they were let go, and Irma Kalish was brought in. I like Haggis’ episodes in seasons 6 and 7; I wonder how the series would have felt if he had stayed.

I strongly disagree with you on that one!!!!

season 7 is definitely the WORST of them all: for one, MRS G behaves like a POD all through it, and gone is the warm and bubbly 'feisty red haired' who was always the voice of the reason for the girls; the stories are completely absurd, the URCHIN ANDY character gets annoying and they ad the unnecessary character GEORGE!

Season 8 on the other hand has great stories and the writing is strong: i particularly like the last episode where we see the WARNERS get together (only if for a brief moment) to see their daughter graduate, and the speech she delivers instead of JO is very heartwarming.....

But i agree: the early years (or EDNA years) are DEFINITELY the best!
The girls and MRS G become a real family, and i can understand why you would think BEVERLY ANN never fit in it: to be honest i kind of feel a bit like you in that way. I do like BEVERLY ANN, but i have always felt that the girls never quite bonded with her the way they did with MRS G; i guess it's partly because she was so different, but also maybe because they were already young adults, and didn't need any more supervision....

[FOL-FAN-ITA]

Originally Posted by Christopher

Season 8 is just like any other previous season. Unlike season 9, we see the girls in season 8 care about not only each other but those that come into their lives. Season 9 they're giving each other the F.U whenever someone has a problem. Most noticeable is A House Divided. Whenever two of the girls are fighting, the others get involved to help them stay friends. In A House Divided, they could care less about Natalie and Tootie fighting. Jo even said one of em could move. It was very different compared to the previous season where Jo got in the middle to offer advice to mend the fight between Natalie and Tootie. Season 8 showcases the girls strong friendship with each other.

Season 8 also shows the girls helping those around them. They were helping Beverly Ann recover from her divorce in season 8 by setting her up with a date and taking her on trips. They were also supportive when she wanted to adopt Andy. In season 9 they do a complete 180 with Pippa. Here's a foreign exchange student who they treat as a pest than a person. They were constantly pushing her out of their lives. This isn't how they acted in season 8 and years prior to someone and it surely wasn't how Mrs. Garrett taught them to treat another regardless of age difference.

Season 8 also had the girls in clothing that matched the type of character they were. Jo was always in jeans or pants. In season 9 they made Jo a girlie girl with red nail polish and skirts. They also loaded her face up with tons of makeup. That wasn't the Jo we saw the previous 7 years.

Season 9 was a whole new experience for not only the characters but viewers to see. It's like they knew going into season 8 they needed to keep things the same. When season 9 came around, they tried something different and it failed.

I agree on everything! Season 8 is one of the best seasons, even without Mrs. Garrett

[Impressions]

Season 9 was so bland. I felt like the chemistry was sucked out of the show at this point. The girls were cold and callous. Blair and Jo weren't themselves. Pippa and Andy didn't need to be there. Natalie, Blair, and Jo looked like they had a clown apply their make-up, and their hair looked like they had been electrocuted by the tanning bed that they had been sitting in all day.

[TV Guy]

At least we can all agree on season 9!

[valentina warner]

I agree that season 9 was bland (as impressionsput it), with the exception of the episode 'Rumour has it': as i was watching it today (i have now started with season 9) i liked how mature and responsible BLAIR presented herself, and the interaction between JO and her was very sweet!
I also wished the young handsome law teacher hadn't left in the end: he had a great chemistry with BLAIR, and i would have loved to see him as a possible suitor for her! (He'd be the perfect one to share his wisdom in law with her!) Nevertheless, it wasn't meant to be.....
The other thing that i also noticed, and is different from the earlier seasons is that the 4 are no longer together really: we see TOOTIE hang out with NAT, and BLAIR hang out with JO, but to me it feels as if the '4 Musketeers' have split.....

[RetroGuy2000]

Originally Posted by Impressions

Season 9 was so bland. I felt like the chemistry was sucked out of the show at this point. The girls were cold and callous. Blair and Jo weren't themselves. Pippa and Andy didn't need to be there. Natalie, Blair, and Jo looked like they had a clown apply their make-up, and their hair looked like they had been electrocuted by the tanning bed that they had been sitting in all day.

This made me laugh, so thanks for the comments.

I recently re-watched "Something in Common" (9-13) and "Peekskill Law" (9-14). It had been many years since I had seen either of them. There were some funny scenes in "Peekskill Law" (I like the scene at dinner), and I appreciate the continuity of bringing back Blair's law professor.

In "Something in Common", Jo's hair and clothes were so fancy it looked like she had become Blair. But even worse than the clothes was the writing. The storyline was weird... Charlie and Rick were fighting, but the reason they weren't getting along from the beginning wasn't exactly clear. Rick was in a dress and Charlie didn't like that. But it should have been clear, as it was explained, that it was just for a costume party. Charlie got upset about Rick playing a joke on him, but Jo's dad, in any other episode, wouldn't have minded. They just needed him to become angry, and it just felt... false.

"Peekskill Law" started off decently enough, but ended up not good. The courtroom scene was so awkward and cheesy. Blair was trying to trick the prosecution's witness into confessing, by dressing Tootie in a widow's costume. The witness stupidly confesses his crimes, and then the big reveal is... it's actually Beverly Ann.

I feel like these two scripts were rough drafts that needed revision. With some work, they could have been really good. But they both feel rushed, and the comedy just feels forced.

Neither episode felt cohesive. I didn't feel the love between the characters. Pippa annoys the Core Four by just existing. I really wondered why they were still living together (or at least why they were living with Pippa). These characters felt so far removed from the original characters that it didn't feel believable. The courtroom scene in PL felt like something from Charles in Charge.

[valentina warner]

Originally Posted by RetroGuy2000

This made me laugh, so thanks for the comments.

I recently re-watched "Something in Common" (9-13) and "Peekskill Law" (9-14). It had been many years since I had seen either of them. There were some funny scenes in "Peekskill Law" (I like the scene at dinner), and I appreciate the continuity of bringing back Blair's law professor.

In "Something in Common", Jo's hair and clothes were so fancy it looked like she had become Blair. But even worse than the clothes was the writing. The storyline was weird... Charlie and Rick were fighting, but the reason they weren't getting along from the beginning wasn't exactly clear. Rick was in a dress and Charlie didn't like that. But it should have been clear, as it was explained, that it was just for a costume party. Charlie got upset about Rick playing a joke on him, but Jo's dad, in any other episode, wouldn't have minded. They just needed him to become angry, and it just felt... false.

"Peekskill Law" started off decently enough, but ended up not good. The courtroom scene was so awkward and cheesy. Blair was trying to trick the prosecution's witness into confessing, by dressing Tootie in a widow's costume. The witness stupidly confesses his crimes, and then the big reveal is... it's actually Beverly Ann.

I feel like these two scripts were rough drafts that needed revision. With some work, they could have been really good. But they both feel rushed, and the comedy just feels forced.

Neither episode felt cohesive. I didn't feel the love between the characters. Pippa annoys the Core Four by just existing. I really wondered why they were still living together (or at least why they were living with Pippa). These characters felt so far removed from the original characters that it didn't feel believable. The courtroom scene in PL felt like something from Charles in Charge.

I absolutely agree with what you're saying Retro!!!!

In season 9 the chemistry between the 'Core of 4' is not the same as in the previous ones: for one, JO & BLAIR are constantlycatty and bitchy towards each other; TOOTIE & NATALIE only care about their boyfriends, and only BEVERLY ANN, PIPPA + ANDY behave warm & caring towards one another.
What's missing mostly, is the togetherness the 'Core of 4' once had: during the earlier years, they were the '4 Musketeers', always arguing and fighting, but also sharing and enjoying each other's company.....

I'm not that far on season 9 yet (i'v only started with the disc 1) so i haven't watched any of the episodes you've mentioned, nor have i seen the infamous RICK yet, but i can already tell you, that the one thing i approve of, is BLAIR's new boyfriend: CASEY is such a handsome guy wow!!! (she always get the hottest guys man!) and i now their dynamic is there ha ha! It amazes me, how BLAIR always says she's going to marry money, but she always ends of dating the paupers lol! (your basic 'poor rich girl' tale)!

And yes Retro, you're also right about the 'Core of 4': they have ABSOLUTELY no consideration with PIPPA (especially JO, who was suspicious and cold towards her from the very beginning).
BEVERLY ANN on the other hand took the Australian teenage girl right under her wings (you can tell she's related to MRS G).

TOOTIE was the kindest one (out of the 4) towards PIPPA: to my surprise, JO quite the opposite (it's like she's forgotten she was once a very rebellious teenager, just like our 'Australian chick' lol!) JO is the biggest POD ha ha!

PS: i quite like PIPPA i have to say! She's kind of cool,and i like her air of independence!

party

[RetroGuy2000]

Originally Posted by valentina warner

I absolutely agree with what you're saying Retro!!!!

In season 9 the chemistry between the 'Core of 4' is not the same as in the previous ones: for one, JO & BLAIR are constantlycatty and bitchy towards each other; TOOTIE & NATALIE only care about their boyfriends, and only BEVERLY ANN, PIPPA + ANDY behave warm & caring towards one another.

I do feel as though Beverly Ann, Andy, and Pippa make a good family unit. But the rationale of having Beverly Ann there in Peekskill was that she was there to help the girls run the store. Beverly Ann then convinces the girls, in "Something in Common", that the store... should close! What, then, is she still doing there?! She's just talked herself out of a job, and now she and her adopted son and exchange student are living in a house where she can no longer make a living.

I'm not that far on season 9 yet (i'v only started with the disc 1) so i haven't watched any of the episodes you've mentioned, nor have i seen the infamous RICK yet

When you get to that point, let us know what you think!

And yes Retro, you're also right about the 'Core of 4': they have ABSOLUTELY no consideration with PIPPA (especially JO, who was suspicious and cold towards her from the very beginning).

Yeah, Jo definitely was cold to Pippa.

Another thing I don't understand. Pippa goes upstairs to sleep on Jo's bed, irritating Jo. But Pippa knew Tootie was out of town. Why didn't she sleep in Tootie's bed?!