Was Season 5 the beginning of TFOL's downward slope creatively

[TMC]

It was when Edna's Edibles became the principle setting. The problem was that Eastland was very much a character itself. I understand why the had to move away from Eastland since by this point, Blair and Jo had already graduated. But still, stripping the show of that setting essentially left it one character short.

This goes into the second point, Mrs. Garrett became really a 3rd wheel. As the setting moved away from Eastland, the girls no longer needed a house mother or a dietitian. And by Season 5, it became very clear that it was going to be hard to tell stories for Edna that had nothing to do with the girls. She really wasn't all that interesting outside of the original context. That's why they looked for ways to make her seem stressed over the shop.

Meanwhile:

• The show gradually moved away from topical storytelling. And as they got into the mid-'80s, shows were more concerned about goofy characters and silly plots (take for instance, ALF), which really wasn't what TFOL was about.
  
  The writers evolved the characters to a point where they tended to feel too different. While Blair may have benefited from this growth, as did Natalie, the loss of Jo's edge left her feeling too bland while Tootie became far too shallow and vapid. By the end, a character like Blair was just about 25 years old. Even little Tootie was nearly 19. They simply started to run out of milestones in the girls' lives.
  
  They almost became "Too '80s" for their own good. It wasn't just the change in setting to Over Our Heads. They tried so hard to look hip (from the fashion to the hair) that it felt forced. Other shows arguably represented the decade more organically. You could also see it in the number of younger characters that they tried to add to the cast. It started in Eastland when they added Alex, but continued when they added Kelly and Andy. Pippa was the last straw. This forced trendiness also removed that down to earth feeling that the girls had in during the Eastland days. Maybe the writers themselves knew that they were losing that authentically young adult vibe.

[Schmoopie]

I just finished watching Season 7 and I have to say that you're right. I can't stand that "Over Our Heads" shop. It's awful. I won't rant about it again here since Iv'e done that in a couple of other threads but I have to agree with you about the show going downhill. I was really hoping that it would have gotten better, but so far it hasn't. I figured that Tootie would grow on me but she has gotten worse and worse and in this last episode where she basically barged in on Natalie's apartment, I wanted to smack her so hard.

The clothes and the hair were definitely very 80's. And what happened to the uniforms? I thought that was the whole point of the show. LOGO must have skipped the ep where Blair and Jo graduated because the only graduation I have seen is Tootie's. Hmm... Maybe Natalie as well, but I woudl remember Jo and Blair's.

[RetroGuy2000]

Yes. It's not that the Edna's Edibles years were bad (they weren't), but they lost the "character" of Eastland, and with that the possibility of bringing in guest stars from the previous eras of the show: characters like Mr. Bradley couldn't credibly pop in for a visit to Edna's Edible because he'd never been there in the first place.

The series began to stagnate, with the same five characters doing the same old things: selling stuff in a shop, for the next five years. To their credit, the producers saw the problem of only having five characters in such a static environment, but tried to solve it by bringing in characters no-one liked, which was a disaster. Few of these characters even lasted very long.

As time went on, the show began to unravel, with the writers even forgetting who these characters were. A sign of this is the episode where former street hood Jo was now a talented piano player.

Originally Posted by Schmoopie

I just finished watching Season 7 and I have to say that you're right. I can't stand that "Over Our Heads" shop. It's awful. I won't rant about it again here since Iv'e done that in a couple of other threads but I have to agree with you about the show going downhill. I was really hoping that it would have gotten better, but so far it hasn't. I figured that Tootie would grow on me but she has gotten worse and worse and in this last episode where she basically barged in on Natalie's apartment, I wanted to smack her so hard.

The clothes and the hair were definitely very 80's. And what happened to the uniforms? I thought that was the whole point of the show. LOGO must have skipped the ep where Blair and Jo graduated because the only graduation I have seen is Tootie's. Hmm... Maybe Natalie as well, but I woudl remember Jo and Blair's.

You definitely missed two episodes, then, Schmoopie. Jo and Blair graduated high school at the end of Season Four, in a two-part episode. After that, they move to Edna's Edibles, and only Tootie and Natalie wear the Eastland uniform. Even this doesn't last very long, as the writers almost never write anything about Eastland.

[Schmoopie]

Originally Posted by RetroGuy2000

You definitely missed two episodes, then, Schmoopie. Jo and Blair graduated high school at the end of Season Four, in a two-part episode. After that, they move to Edna's Edibles, and only Tootie and Natalie wear the Eastland uniform. Even this doesn't last very long, as the writers almost never write anything about Eastland.

Interesting, but not surprising. Well, I will hopefully catch them after I finish the series. I'm just starting Season 8

['80sSitcoms]

Originally Posted by TMC

Eastland was very much a character itself...stripping the show of that setting essentially left it one character short.

Mrs. Garrett became really a 3rd wheel. As the setting moved away from Eastland, the girls no longer needed a house mother or a dietitian. And by Season 5, it became very clear that it was going to be hard to tell stories for Edna that had nothing to do with the girls. She really wasn't all that interesting outside of the original context. That's why they looked for ways to make her seem stressed over the shop.

I agree about Eastland for sure, but I disagree about Mrs. Garrett. The girls were still all teenagers (18, 16, and 15, respectively), so they needed older guidance and authority.

I think they could have easily written Mrs. Garrett stories, if they had wanted to. But as far as her own personal life, "We Get Letters" was one of the only ones (and it really bothers me in that one how she never confirms to upset Natalie that she never actually had an affair).

Originally Posted by TMC

By the end, a character like Blair was just about 25 years old. Even little Tootie was nearly 19.

Blair was 24 at the end, and Tootie was 21.

Originally Posted by RetroGuy2000

they lost the "character" of Eastland, and with that the possibility of bringing in guest stars from the previous eras of the show: characters like Mr. Bradley couldn't credibly pop in for a visit to Edna's Edible because he'd never been there in the first place.

Well, but Mr. Parker was there. Sure he had an ulterior motive, to get Mrs. Garrett back, lol, but I can see Mr. Bradley popping into EE just as I can any of the Lost Girls: they heard Mrs. Garrett opened her own shop in town, and they stop by to see it out of curiosity and wish her well out of fondness for her.

Originally Posted by RetroGuy2000

As time went on, the show began to unravel, with the writers even forgetting who these characters were. A sign of this is the episode where former street hood Jo was now a talented piano player.

What really sticks in my craw about that is that it was written by season 2 re-toolers and Jo creators Linda Marsh & Margie Peters themselves. That is just. un. be. liev. able.

[RetroGuy2000]

Originally Posted by '80sSitcoms

Well, but Mr. Parker was there. Sure he had an ulterior motive, to get Mrs. Garrett back, lol, but I can see Mr. Bradley popping into EE just as I can any of the Lost Girls: they heard Mrs. Garrett opened her own shop in town, and they stop by to see it out of curiosity and wish her well out of fondness for her.

I could see the Lost Girls being there to drop by for some delicious quiche, or Molly or Cindy dropping by to help Natalie and Tootie study... but Mr. Bradley? That seems like a stretch. Mr. Parker was there to lure Mrs. Garrett back to Eastland, and I can see him stopping by for regular visits, but Mr Bradley?!

What really sticks in my craw about that is that it was written by season 2 re-toolers and Jo creators Linda Marsh & Margie Peters themselves. That is just. un. be. liev. able.

I didn't know that. Wow.

['80sSitcoms]

Originally Posted by RetroGuy2000

I could see the Lost Girls being there to drop by for some delicious quiche, or Molly or Cindy dropping by to help Natalie and Tootie study... but Mr. Bradley? That seems like a stretch. Mr. Parker was there to lure Mrs. Garrett back to Eastland, and I can see him stopping by for regular visits, but Mr Bradley?!

Oh wait! That's right, he presumably wouldn't be at Eastland anymore. Okay, so yeah, that would be "stretchier", haha. Unless maybe he lived right there in Peekskill?

Originally Posted by RetroGuy2000

I didn't know that. Wow.

Yup--- "!!!"

[RetroGuy2000]

Originally Posted by '80sSitcoms

Oh wait! That's right, he presumably wouldn't be at Eastland anymore. Okay, so yeah, that would be "stretchier", haha. Unless maybe he lived right there in Peekskill?

Well, if he still lives in Peekskill, why did he never visit, ever? I mean, if he still lived in Peekskill, he could have come in for quiche at Edna's Edibles, or for cheap 1980s crap at Over Our Heads, but he did not. We could have seen him during the Langley years, if he was teaching or administering there. I mean, what else is he going to do for a living?

Somehow, I always pictured him and Miss Mahoney deciding to stay in Hawaii after their trip there.

[Lorimar Television]

You think Miss Mahoney went to Hawaii with Mr. Bradley?

['80sSitcoms]

I think she's still with her rabbits!

[RetroGuy2000]

Originally Posted by Lorimar Television

You think Miss Mahoney went to Hawaii with Mr. Bradley?

I think they went to Hawaii to start a new life together, and that is why we never saw them again. It was all quite a scandal at Eastland, and was kept hush-hush, which is why they were almost never mentioned again.

'80s, I'm sure she brought her rabbits.

[Christopher]

Originally Posted by RetroGuy2000

characters like Mr. Bradley couldn't credibly pop in for a visit to Edna's Edible because he'd never been there in the first place.

If Mrs. Garrett and him remained friends after he left Eastland, yes he could pop in and have it be credible. Any of the characters from the Eastland years that were on good terms with the girls and Mrs. Garrett could have stopped by. I think it would have been funny if Mr. Bradley came by to visit and reminiscence with Mrs. Garrett. Jo could have given Blair a hard time for having a crush on him Well, season 5 Jo anyways.

['80sSitcoms]

Originally Posted by RetroGuy2000

I think they went to Hawaii to start a new life together, and that is why we never saw them again. It was all quite a scandal at Eastland, and was kept hush-hush, which is why they were almost never mentioned again.

'80s, I'm sure she brought her rabbits.

In my faniverse they remain separate. Miss Mahoney prefers being around her rabbits instead of Bradley, lol.

[RetroGuy2000]

Originally Posted by Christopher

If Mrs. Garrett and him remained friends after he left Eastland, yes he could pop in and have it be credible. Any of the characters from the Eastland years that were on good terms with the girls and Mrs. Garrett could have stopped by. I think it would have been funny if Mr. Bradley came by to visit and reminiscence with Mrs. Garrett. Jo could have given Blair a hard time for having a crush on him Well, season 5 Jo anyways.

That would be funny!

[RetroGuy2000]

Originally Posted by '80sSitcoms

In my faniverse they remain separate. Miss Mahoney prefers being around her rabbits instead of Bradley, lol.