Kurt Cobain: Not a Suicide?

[1990 UM fan]

Today is the 25th anniversary of Kurt Cobain's death. I never believed that he killed himself. He was addicted to drugs, and depressed, but not all people hooked on narcotics and have clinical depression kill themselves. I think it was a money grab. Kurt was going to put an end to his music career, which was going to cost a lot of people a lot of money, but I don't see how killing him would have stopped that, unless he had a big inheritance waiting in the wings or someone wanted creative control of his output and making money off of that still. A lot of people feel that Courtney Love killed him, but why? Was it for money? Fame? Was he going to leave her and break her heart?

Could a random junkie have gotten high with Kurt, killed him and then used his credit card? Maybe someone Kurt knew was with him when he died. I don't think if you are so high and loopy on drugs that you can get a proper grip on a shotgun trigger and focus that right to your head. I will not believe that Kurt Cobain committed suicide, unless definitive proof of him being alone in that garage can be explained logically.

[mothwings]

I always thought that the fact he ditched rehab alone is enough to say he had no plans to live.

There is also a death photo of some kind of abrasion on his thumb that could have only come if he had pulled the trigger and been pinched by it himself.

[JM]

I know some people just "need to believe" because the simplest explanation just can't "be".

Detective who reviewed Kurt Cobain's death file details evidence

If KC hadn't shot himself, he would have surely died from the valium and heroin he had ingested which was several times the lethal limit, even for someone with a tolerance.

For me, that has always been the clinching fact that he had no desire to be alive anymore. It's sad and as a fan at the time, it really did break my heart; I'm a Gen X'er. First there was River Phoenix and then Cobain.

There is simply no credible evidence that KC's death was anything but a suicide. Let the man rest in peace.

[Babalu]

Originally Posted by soundandvision

I know some people just "need to believe" because the simplest explanation just can't "be".

There is simply no credible evidence that KC's death was anything but a suicide. Let the man rest in peace.

Exactly. The size of the controversy is always in direct proportion to the personality involved, never the facts. See JFK, RFK, and Marylin Monroe. Sirhan Sirhan shot Robert Kennedy in front of hundreds of witnesses and was apprehended on the spot, by football player Rosey Grier, who is still alive. And yet RFK's own son doesn't think Sirhan Sirhan did it!

https://www.newsweek.com/robert-f-ke...ination-946078

[DALLASTEXAN!!]

Truth from the last 3 posts. If you watch the UM segment and other conspiracy angles they show unsubstantiated viewpoints about Kurt. One common place is that many of the people or witnesses that feel Kurt was murdered, well they never actually knew him in any way shape or form. Many of those final witnesses that saw him and knew him know that he was suicidal and his wife (like her or not...I don’t) hired an investigator(albeit a poor one) to follow Kurt because she did fear for his life. Kurt was done with living plain and simple. And the UM segment never should have happened.

[isotope]

Originally Posted by soundandvision

I know some people just "need to believe" because the simplest explanation just can't "be".

Detective who reviewed Kurt Cobain's death file details evidence

If KC hadn't shot himself, he would have surely died from the valium and heroin he had ingested which was several times the lethal limit, even for someone with a tolerance.

For me, that has always been the clinching fact that he had no desire to be alive anymore. It's sad and as a fan at the time, it really did break my heart; I'm a Gen X'er. First there was River Phoenix and then Cobain.

There is simply no credible evidence that KC's death was anything but a suicide. Let the man rest in peace.

Agree 100%

UM did a lot of dumb, ratings-chasing segments over the years, but this is arguably the most contemptible. EVERYONE who dealt with Cobain over the last few months of his life would later recall how desperate and depressed he was; he regularly talked about ending his life, he had an out of control drug addition while his band and his marriage were falling apart, had made a suicide attempt by overdose a month previously and had ready access to guns.

The idea that Courtney had him killed is insane. She had TWICE saved his life over the past year (once by calling the cops when he locked himself in a bathroom with a gun, secondly by calling doctors after the above overdose) and called the cops and a PI after he disappeared; Cobain also wrote a lengthy note that no one has ever credibly challenged as inauthentic.

Stuff like this makes me wonder what sort of circumstances would have to exist for a famous person's death NOT to attract conspiracy mongers - it seems that unless they are over 85 or there is a long record of hospitalisation with a fatal illness, then pretty much any celebrity death will attract strange people "just asking questions"...

[1990 UM fan]

This recent article states that the FBI has production notes, among other things, from the time that Unsolved Mysteries aired Kurt's story in 1997: https://www.google.com/amp/s/m.huffp...dc48f1793a/amp

[jets4life]

Hands-down the most ridiculous story UM did in it's history. As with many suicides, the stigma surrounding it is enough for friends, family, and the public to refuse the fact, and make up wild conspiracies in regards to Kurt being murdered.

Let's look at some reasons that Cobain may have taken his life:

-he had a family history of suicide, with 3 family members ending their lives by suicide.
-he was diagnosed with bipolar depression
-he was an outcast, and ostracized at school
-he consumed drugs beginning at 13 (alcohol and pot)
-he would brag to friends in his teens that his life goal was to "become a famous rock star, then blow his brains out"
-when on tour, he was often depressed and withdrawn
-in 1989, he climbed up a 15-20 foot stage, and threatened to jump to his death in Italy
-his breakdown was caused by "the people in the audience reminded me of my high school bullies"
-tried heroin for the first time in 89
-by fall of 1990 after signing with DGC, Kurt began using heroin more often, but still infrequet
-after Nevermind exploded in late 91, Cobain did his second tour of Europe, and would shoot heroin when available
-by January 1992, he was a full fledged addict
-overdosed for the first time after the SNL performance. Revived by Love
-after the tour ended in late Feb 92, married Courtney (a heroin user), and proceeded to do heroin on a regular basis until he did rehab before his daughter was born
-a day after Frances Bean was born, the infamous "Vanity Fair" article came out, calling them junkies, similar to Sid and Nancy, and accusing Love of shooting heroin on a regular basis after pregnancy (not true)
-Cobain aware of the repercussions of the article, went out for hours, came back with a loaded gun and a bag of heroin, asking Love to do a double suicide (she refused)
-between 1992 and 1994, it's estimated that Cobain Overdosed at least 12 times
-Nirvana released a song called "I Hate Myself and Want to Die" 4 months before his suicide
-on the set of Unplugged in NY, Cobain insisted the set be decorated by a funeral procession
-most of the songs on IN Utero deal with depression/suicide related topics
-"You Know Youre Right" clearly sounds like a song insinuating that he was planning to die (see the lyrics)
-Cobain clearly did not want to tour, and acted depressed withdrawn, and had mood swings
-pics from his tour of Europe picture a man who was arguably dying, as the heroin effects were so obvious that he wore eyeliner and makeup to hide the effects of the drug
-suicide attempt in Rome exactly one month before his demise, where he barely survived
-in the last month of his life, was doing dangerous amounts of heroin, locked himself in his washroom, and threatened to blow his brains in (Police removed his weapons)
-finally went to rehab in LA, at the end of March. During the drive with Novoselic to the airport, Kurt tried everything to force himself out of a moving vehicle, cried, and finally when at the airport, attached Novoselic, before running away.
-checked out of the treatment centre 2 days after arriving by scaling a 6 foot fence
-witnesses who saw him withdrawal money from the bank, say that he was in such rough shape, he could barely sign cheques to be cashed.
-Cobain ends up buying enough heroin to kill a horse the last time he was in public, and obtained a firearm.
-Cobain kills himself on April 5
-body discovered with gun in left hand (he was left handed) with a bruised knuckle from firing the gun (which indicates he pulled the trigger)
-wrote a suicide note

And there are people dumb enough to believe he was murdered....lol

[jets4life]

Originally Posted by DALLASTEXAN!!

Truth from the last 3 posts. If you watch the UM segment and other conspiracy angles they show unsubstantiated viewpoints about Kurt. One common place is that many of the people or witnesses that feel Kurt was murdered, well they never actually knew him in any way shape or form. Many of those final witnesses that saw him and knew him know that he was suicidal and his wife (like her or not...I don’t) hired an investigator(albeit a poor one) to follow Kurt because she did fear for his life. Kurt was done with living plain and simple. And the UM segment never should have happened.

All the weirdos came out of the woodwork, to state Courtney killed Cobain.

Love's estranged father, who lost custody of her for giving her drugs at 5 years old, and had not spoken to her for years, contacted "High Times" that did a ridiculous story called "Who Killed Kurt?" in 1996
-El Duce of a band called "The Mentors" claimed that Courtney offered him $50,000 to murder Cobain. Only problem is that El Duce was a known ********ter, addict, and never met or spoke to Love.
-El Duce later joked with his inner circle that High TImes had paid him well for his contribution to the story, and ridiculed the magazine for being so gullible.
-After 32 years, there is no credible evidence to suggest anything but a suicide

[DALLASTEXAN!!]

Originally Posted by jets4life

All the weirdos came out of the woodwork, to state Courtney killed Cobain.

Love's estranged father, who lost custody of her for giving her drugs at 5 years old, and had not spoken to her for years, contacted "High Times" that did a ridiculous story called "Who Killed Kurt?" in 1996
-El Duce of a band called "The Mentors" claimed that Courtney offered him $50,000 to murder Cobain. Only problem is that El Duce was a known ********ter, addict, and never met or spoke to Love.
-El Duce later joked with his inner circle that High TImes had paid him well for his contribution to the story, and ridiculed the magazine for being so gullible.
-After 32 years, there is no credible evidence to suggest anything but a suicide

yeah that guy El Duce was a piece of deuce literally.

the suicide attempt in Rome is very telling. krist novaselic said that Kurt was never the same after that.

[jets4life]

Originally Posted by Hot Jock

I was a huge fan of Nirvana, but neither one of those statements are even remotely close to being true and are pure hyperbole. Did they sell a lot of records? Absolutely. However, so many other artists sold a lot more records in the 90s than they did. Nevermind was a massive success, but In Utero was a huge step down in sales as a follow up. In fact, it fell off the charts relatively quickly and didn't really regain steam until after Kurt's death.

In Utero sold over 15 million units Worldwide. It also went to #1 on the Billboard top 200. Calling it a "Huge step down" is unfair, when it is compared to Nevermind, which happens to be one of the best selling albums of all time. In addition, Cobain deliberately made In Utero not commercially friendly, hiring producer Steve Albini, a producer outspoken in his criticism of the mainstream music industry, as he was know to work with independant artists, and produce raw and abstract albums, which gave In Utero it's sound.

Cobain was a sensitive artist, and the scene he was part of (Olympia, Washington), frowned upon selling out to major record labels. He wanted to regain his "punk credentials," which is why he refused to make an album like Nevermind. IN 1991, Cobain had said that he wanted to make a more pop-rock, "radio friendly" album, in hopes of making it big (Kurt Cobain was full of contradictions, and never intended Nevermind to be a generational changing album).

They toured pretty extensively between 91-94 and never really graduated to playing large arenas or full size stadiums and pretty much were stuck playing mid-level venues with a few rare exceptions when they were playing a larger festival.

Nirvana, and later Pearl Jam, did not want to tour arenas. Nirvana had offers from several established bands in late 91, including Metallica, Guns N Roses, U2, Van Halen, Skid Row, and others, who were desperate to have Nirvana tour with them. Cobain did not want to play at 15,000 seat gigs. Nirvana did not tour much at all after the conclusion of the Australia/Oceania leg of the turn in February 1992. Once Cobain married Courtney Love in Hawaii at the end of February, he did not tour until the beginning of October 1993, only doing the occasional festival and stadium shows.

It should be known that he was literally forced by his record company to eventually play arena gigs by the time the In Utero tour began in the fall of 1993. It should also be known that in 1992-93, Nirvana were headlining major festival concerts like Reading (UK), Argentina, and Brazil. If Cobain had not died, Nirvana would have headlined Lollapalooza in 1994. Aside from that, bands like Motley Crue and Poison, who only would dream of achieving the popularity that Nirvana did in their prime, had been touring arenas for years.

[jets4life]

Originally Posted by kane7474

Ok you talk about the documentary only interviewing Junkies and drug addicts. Well keep in mind this is what Kurt was. Did Kurt have any educated intelligent friends that could shed light on what happened? Probably not. The man himself was a reject and prided himself on the fact so ofcourse when they interview people that knew him there going to be the same type of people as he was.

Of course Kurt Cobain has intelligent friends. Between 1987-91, he became immense in the music scene in Olympia, Washington, which is the state capital, and place with a metro area of 350,000 people, an hour southwest of the much larger Seattle-Tacoma metro area (4.5 million).

Evergreen had a counterculture scene, which Evergreen State College was the epicenter for. The irony is that many in the music sense which gave birth to SubPop and Grunge, looked down upon Kurt, since he was from a small logging town, and he dropped out of school at 17, as most were either attending college, or had graduated arts programs from college.

If one were to look at the people Kurt was close to, most were either college students in bands, or musically talented. Sadly during his last couple of years of his life, especially after the Vanity Fair article came out, he pushed away most of the people trying to help him, and hung out with others that did not have his best interest in mind (fellow junkie musicians, music fans enabling him, etc).

Calling Cobain a "reject" is so narrow minded. Most people who change the World, fall into this category. Normal people do not understand them. This goes for champion fighters, inventors, scientists, artists, musicians,etc. Chris Cornell, Axl Rose, and others in the same scene, were outcasts as well. Should we write them off, since they were not popular with their peers?