Why wasn't Living Single as popular as Friends? - Sitcoms Online Message Boards

TMC · 08-18-2017, 02:52 AM

Living Single and Friends believe it or not are extremely similar shows. Both shows centered on the lives of six young friends, who share personal and professional experiences while living in New York. More to the point, Living Single was about black empowerment (as was Girlfriends, another all black show that was similar in premise that never really got any kind of ratings) and portrayed its characters as young, college educated professionals and entrepreneurs.

Not to answer my own question, but none the less, here are some possible reasons:

In 1993, Fox still wasn't considered a full broadcast network (it wasn't until they got the NFL contract in late '93 that people started taking them seriously in that regard) on the same level that ABC, NBC, and CBS were. There were a lot of markets where Fox wasn't available. (Counterpoint: The Simpsons, which also aired on Fox, was at the height of its status as a cultural phenomenon when Living Single started airing.)
Living Single has a black cast. Black sitcoms, with one or two prominent exceptions like The Cosby Show or even Sanford & Son and The Jeffersons at their respective ratings peaks, were (and kind of still are, in some cases), seen as "for black people" and have a harder time cracking through into phenomenon status with other demographics. There are probably interesting things to say about the differences between how The Cosby Show and Living Single positioned themselves in relation to American blackness that might play a role in how non-black audiences reacted to them.
Friends spent most of its lifetime surrounded by other phenomenon shows, or at least very popular ones. "Must-See TV" wasn't just a marketing label for that night of television. Living Single spent a lot of its lifespan leading into forgotten stuff like The Crew or Between Brothers. It did get paired with Martin (which speaking of The Cosby Show, incidentally, managed to help facilitate the cancellation of it's spin-off, A Different World in 1992-93) in some seasons, but the shows were often up against Friends or other NBC Thursday Night shows. (The other broadcast networks basically ceded the demo on Thursdays most years, and instead aired marginal dramas or old-person TV then.) At the end of the day, Friends was a top tier show while Living Single was a middle shelf show.

TMC · 05-29-2019, 08:12 PM

Friends had two women sharing an apartment (Monica, Rachel), one goofy friend that visited them (Phoebe), two guy friends that lived across the hall one serious and one kind of out there, (Chandler, Joey) and then one friend who seemed rather competent in his field (Ross).

Living Single had three women sharing an apartment, (Khadijah, Synclaire, Regina), one friend that visited (Maxine) and two guys that lived across the hall they were friends with and one was serious and one was kind of out there (Overton and Kyle).

Monica was the Khadijah, Phoebe was the Synclaire, Rachel was the Regina, Ross was the Maxine, Joey was the Overton, and Kyle was the Chandler. Their character types were very much the same. One was in Brooklyn, the other was in Manhattan but at least that cast got along for the most part.

Living Single had the Max and Kyle relationship, which was a well done depiction of a grown up relationship. Friends managed to do something similar with the Chandler/Monica relationship later on in the show's run.

No one at NBC has ever refuted the claims of the producers or cast of Living Single that Friends originated with their idea.

DJM77 · 05-29-2019, 08:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TMC

Friends had two women sharing an apartment (Monica, Rachel), one goofy friend that visited them (Phoebe), two guy friends that lived across the hall one serious and one kind of out there, (Chandler, Joey) and then one friend who seemed rather competent in his field (Ross).

Living Single had three women sharing an apartment, (Khadijah, Synclaire, Regina), one friend that visited (Maxine) and two guys that lived across the hall they were friends with and one was serious and one was kind of out there (Overton and Kyle.)

Monica was the Khadijah, Phoebe was the Synclaire, Rachel was the Regina, Ross was the Maxine, Joey was the Overton and Kyle was the Chandler. Their character types were very much the same. One was in Brooklyn, the other was in Manhattan but at least that cast got along for the most part.

Living Single had the Max and Kyle relationship, which was a well done depiction of a grown up relationship. Friends managed to do something similar with the Chandler/Monica relationship later on in the show's run.

No one at NBC has ever refuted the claims of the producers or cast of Living Single that Friends originated with their idea.

Kyle and Overton lived upstairs from the girls, not across the hall. Other than that I think that your analyzation is spot on!

TMC · 08-10-2019, 02:36 AM

How Living Single paved the way for Friends

The 1990s black sitcom has "in a way" already been rebooted. "Its premise—six twentysomething men and women making their way in New York City—rebaked into a show that inspires more than its fair share of ’90s wistfulness: Friends," says Rachelle Hampton. "The all-white simulacrum, which began airing a year after Living Single’s debut, eventually became a megahit, with the core cast members raking in $1 million per episode by the end of the show’s 10-season run. Despite its own success, Living Single ended after just five seasons, all of which are now streaming for those looking to be initiated into what the theme song calls 'a ’90s kind of world.'"

TVFactFan · 08-11-2019, 03:18 PM

Because it wasn't on one of the main network and most non black female viewers could not identify with the show. It was one of the top watched shows among african americans

TMC · 08-16-2019, 04:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TVFactFan

Because it wasn't on one of the main network and most non black female viewers could not identify with the show. It was one of the top watched shows among african americans

The 1992 movie Singles also may have been a direct influence/inspiration on the creation of Friends. Warner Bros. distributed it and while it wasn't a theatrical hit, they felt that it TV potential. Cameron Crowe, the director rejected the idea, but WB owned the rights so they could do what they wanted. The producers reset the show to New York but kept aspects of the film (including the very white (at the time) Seattle culture.) This likely explains why in the very early episodes, they all have shaggier haircuts, Phoebe is more of a hippie than flaky, etc. Meanwhile, Ross could be considered a more self pitying, Jewish version of the Campbell Scott character.

Bonniegirl · 08-16-2019, 02:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TVFactFan

Because it wasn't on one of the main network and most non black female viewers could not identify with the show. It was one of the top watched shows among african americans

I'm white and I liked Living Single!

I used to watch it, was a funny show and Overton was a hotty!!

I think you are right about it not being on a main TV station, maybe not everyone knew about it!

TVFactFan · 08-16-2019, 04:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bonniegirl

I'm white and I liked Living Single!

I used to watch it, was a funny show and Overton was a hotty!!

I think you are right about it not being on a main TV station, maybe not everyone knew about it!

But you know what I mean it didn't appeal to the majority of the country of the time. BTW, I think Sinclair was a hottie and would love to find someone like her on the dating site lol

Bonniegirl · 08-16-2019, 07:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TVFactFan

But you know what I mean it didn't appeal to the majority of the country of the time. BTW, I think Sinclair was a hottie and would love to find someone like her on the dating site lol

She was really cute!

Regine and Max were really pretty too!

TMC · 01-29-2020, 05:05 AM

David Schwimmer roasted for calling for an "all-black" version of Friends when it's been accused of ripping off Living Single

Schwimmer's recent remarks to The Guardian saying there should be an all-Asian or all-black Friends led many on Twitter to point out that Living Single premiered a year before Friends in 1993. Friends has been accused of being an all-white reboot of Living Single. "David Schwimmer wants a Black reboot of Friends?" tweeted SiriusXM host Clay Cane. "He doesn't know Friends was the white 'reboot' of Living Single - starred in a ripoff & didn't do research? They put Living Single in the SAME time slot as Friends - even Pat Boone & Elvis did research to be culture vultures. SMH."

Old School · 08-28-2021, 03:31 AM

Video Description: Kim Coles on How Living Single Was the Blueprint for FRIENDS. ET’s Kevin Frazier sits down with Kim Coles to talk about her sitcom journey; including how things ended on ‘In Living Color,’ how ‘Living Single’ may have inspired the start of ‘Friends’ and how she navigated the television space as a Black woman in the ‘90s.

TVFactFan · 09-04-2021, 03:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Old School

Video Description: Kim Coles on How Living Single Was the Blueprint for FRIENDS. ET’s Kevin Frazier sits down with Kim Coles to talk about her sitcom journey; including how things ended on ‘In Living Color,’ how ‘Living Single’ may have inspired the start of ‘Friends’ and how she navigated the television space as a Black woman in the ‘90s.

It was definitely copied by NBC since friends started in 1994. And since it aired on NBC and was an all white show, the ratings was #8

Living Single an all black show on Fox after its 1st season was 60

TVLegend · 07-13-2022, 02:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TVFactFan

But you know what I mean it didn't appeal to the majority of the country of the time. BTW, I think Sinclair was a hottie and would love to find someone like her on the dating site lol

Funny because I was once in love with Kim Fields

GentlemanJim · 07-13-2022, 03:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TMC

There are probably interesting things to say about the differences between how The Cosby Show and Living Single positioned themselves in relation to American blackness that might play a role in how non-black audiences reacted to them.

To my way of thinking, that answers the question best of all.

FWIW, I didn't enjoy Friends, at all. While I did find Living Single "watch worthy". There was an undeniable feeling of "engineered for intended purpose" to Living single's writing

Alan Brady's Hair · 07-13-2022, 04:03 PM

Sanford and Son finished as high as No. 2. The Jeffersons topped out at No. 3. The Cosby Show, of course, finished No. 1 five times in a row and is a contender for the most popular sitcom ever. There was no reason to think that American audiences wouldn't embrace shows with black casts.

Being on Fox was a problem. They hit with their first top 30 show in 1989, it took a decade to reach the top 10 with reality shows. Living Single started on Sunday nights, and had the misfortune to move to Thursdays just as NBC was locking down the Seinfeld/Friends version of their Thursday Night dynasty.

The thing about copying is that there's nothing original about either show. All shows copy and get copied - Friends was pretty openly spoken about as Seinfeld for a younger demographic. If you can't point to some important part of your show and say, "There - we started that", then you really can't be upset when someone lifts what you lifted from someone else in the first place.

08-18-2017, 02:52 AM	#1
TMC Member Forum Idol Join Date: Jan 09, 2001 Posts: 124,387	Why wasn't Living Single as popular as Friends? Living Single and Friends believe it or not are extremely similar shows. Both shows centered on the lives of six young friends, who share personal and professional experiences while living in New York. More to the point, Living Single was about black empowerment (as was Girlfriends, another all black show that was similar in premise that never really got any kind of ratings) and portrayed its characters as young, college educated professionals and entrepreneurs. Not to answer my own question, but none the less, here are some possible reasons: In 1993, Fox still wasn't considered a full broadcast network (it wasn't until they got the NFL contract in late '93 that people started taking them seriously in that regard) on the same level that ABC, NBC, and CBS were. There were a lot of markets where Fox wasn't available. (Counterpoint: The Simpsons, which also aired on Fox, was at the height of its status as a cultural phenomenon when Living Single started airing.) Living Single has a black cast. Black sitcoms, with one or two prominent exceptions like The Cosby Show or even Sanford & Son and The Jeffersons at their respective ratings peaks, were (and kind of still are, in some cases), seen as "for black people" and have a harder time cracking through into phenomenon status with other demographics. There are probably interesting things to say about the differences between how The Cosby Show and Living Single positioned themselves in relation to American blackness that might play a role in how non-black audiences reacted to them. Friends spent most of its lifetime surrounded by other phenomenon shows, or at least very popular ones. "Must-See TV" wasn't just a marketing label for that night of television. Living Single spent a lot of its lifespan leading into forgotten stuff like The Crew or Between Brothers. It did get paired with Martin (which speaking of The Cosby Show, incidentally, managed to help facilitate the cancellation of it's spin-off, A Different World in 1992-93) in some seasons, but the shows were often up against Friends or other NBC Thursday Night shows. (The other broadcast networks basically ceded the demo on Thursdays most years, and instead aired marginal dramas or old-person TV then.) At the end of the day, Friends was a top tier show while Living Single was a middle shelf show.
	Last edited by TMC; 11-08-2023 at 12:33 AM.

05-29-2019, 08:12 PM	#2
TMC Member Forum Idol Join Date: Jan 09, 2001 Posts: 124,387	Friends had two women sharing an apartment (Monica, Rachel), one goofy friend that visited them (Phoebe), two guy friends that lived across the hall one serious and one kind of out there, (Chandler, Joey) and then one friend who seemed rather competent in his field (Ross). Living Single had three women sharing an apartment, (Khadijah, Synclaire, Regina), one friend that visited (Maxine) and two guys that lived across the hall they were friends with and one was serious and one was kind of out there (Overton and Kyle). Monica was the Khadijah, Phoebe was the Synclaire, Rachel was the Regina, Ross was the Maxine, Joey was the Overton, and Kyle was the Chandler. Their character types were very much the same. One was in Brooklyn, the other was in Manhattan but at least that cast got along for the most part. Living Single had the Max and Kyle relationship, which was a well done depiction of a grown up relationship. Friends managed to do something similar with the Chandler/Monica relationship later on in the show's run. No one at NBC has ever refuted the claims of the producers or cast of Living Single that Friends originated with their idea.
	Last edited by TMC; 11-08-2023 at 12:21 AM.

08-10-2019, 02:36 AM	#4
TMC Member Forum Idol Join Date: Jan 09, 2001 Posts: 124,387	How Living Single paved the way for Friends The 1990s black sitcom has "in a way" already been rebooted. "Its premise—six twentysomething men and women making their way in New York City—rebaked into a show that inspires more than its fair share of ’90s wistfulness: Friends," says Rachelle Hampton. "The all-white simulacrum, which began airing a year after Living Single’s debut, eventually became a megahit, with the core cast members raking in $1 million per episode by the end of the show’s 10-season run. Despite its own success, Living Single ended after just five seasons, all of which are now streaming for those looking to be initiated into what the theme song calls 'a ’90s kind of world.'"

08-11-2019, 03:18 PM	#5
TVFactFan Member Forum Junkie Join Date: Aug 17, 2002 Posts: 98,949	Because it wasn't on one of the main network and most non black female viewers could not identify with the show. It was one of the top watched shows among african americans

01-29-2020, 05:05 AM	#10
TMC Member Forum Idol Join Date: Jan 09, 2001 Posts: 124,387	David Schwimmer roasted for calling for an "all-black" version of Friends when it's been accused of ripping off Living Single Schwimmer's recent remarks to The Guardian saying there should be an all-Asian or all-black Friends led many on Twitter to point out that Living Single premiered a year before Friends in 1993. Friends has been accused of being an all-white reboot of Living Single. "David Schwimmer wants a Black reboot of Friends?" tweeted SiriusXM host Clay Cane. "He doesn't know Friends was the white 'reboot' of Living Single - starred in a ripoff & didn't do research? They put Living Single in the SAME time slot as Friends - even Pat Boone & Elvis did research to be culture vultures. SMH."

07-13-2022, 04:03 PM	#15
Alan Brady's Hair Member Senior Member Join Date: Aug 30, 2014 Posts: 1,821	Sanford and Son finished as high as No. 2. The Jeffersons topped out at No. 3. The Cosby Show, of course, finished No. 1 five times in a row and is a contender for the most popular sitcom ever. There was no reason to think that American audiences wouldn't embrace shows with black casts. Being on Fox was a problem. They hit with their first top 30 show in 1989, it took a decade to reach the top 10 with reality shows. Living Single started on Sunday nights, and had the misfortune to move to Thursdays just as NBC was locking down the Seinfeld/Friends version of their Thursday Night dynasty. The thing about copying is that there's nothing original about either show. All shows copy and get copied - Friends was pretty openly spoken about as Seinfeld for a younger demographic. If you can't point to some important part of your show and say, "There - we started that", then you really can't be upset when someone lifts what you lifted from someone else in the first place.