Chris, Jerry and Sherman???

[ethelmaepotter]

Originally Posted by pilotguy

This sounds terrible to say, but I can't believe that such a high-profile star and series didn't hire better actors to play Lucy's kids!

Ralph Hart was fine as Viv's son Sherman (Ralph was a very natural actor), but Jimmy Garrett and Candy Moore were TERRIBLE! Candy Moore always sounded like she was reading her lines, and that "Gee Whiz!" wide-eyed expression that she had when talking made her scenes seem like a high school play....and a very amateurish play at that!

Please don't get me started on Jimmy Garrett....They thought that they were making him a little comedian, but he SHOUTED his lines in that stuffed-up nose manner of his. He was as unconvincing as Candy was! Jimmy didn't come across as "funny", he just came across as "obnoxious"....and if you HAVE to have an obnoxious kid on your show, at least have a TALENTED obnoxious kid who can read lines....like "MAKE ROOM FOR DADDY"'s Rusty Hamer!

I don't mean to be cruel, or even critical, but it just amazes me that a known perfectionist like Lucille Ball was satisfied and was willing to settle for the less-than-professional way that the actors playing her children came across.

I don't think "The Lucy Show" was ever about the kids anyway so they didn't put much emphasis on who they hired. The show centered about Lucy & Vivian and that was it. The only reason she had kids was because in 1962, network execs were a little concerned that two middle-aged women living together might conjure up negative images. Don't forget, in the industry, "The Lucy Show" was called "The Dyke Sans Dick Show".

The actors playing the kids did have limited acting ability. In their defense, Lucy coached them on how to read lines and "scream" their lines. Ever watch Lucie Arnaz on "Here's Lucy"? Lucie is hollering to the top of her lungs!

I think the producers of "The Lucy Show" knew early on the kids were unnecessary. They finally disappeared after the third season.

[Jude The Obscure]

In interviews, Candy Moore and the others knew they were simply window dressing on this show. Candy stated she was playing just another plastic teenager who had no real depth and that when she asked why her role was being done more realistically, she was told, in curt terms, you're here to be a prop, not to play Shakespeare.

Jimmy Garrett, IMO, was a little pro.....Vivian called him "The Fred Mertz of this show" because he was given the Fred Mertz type lines.

Ralph, was a professional dancer, and acting was not really his forte'.

I don't think it is fair to put the blame on the kids. They simply did what they were told and collected their paycheck. All of them have fond memories of working with Lucy, even if she wasn't the most "motherly" type on the set.

[McGillicuddy]

Now that you mention it, Lucie Arnaz and Desi Arnaz Jr shouted their lines too, just like the kids on the Lucy Show.

[jimmo]

Originally Posted by Jude The Obscure

In interviews, Candy Moore and the others knew they were simply window dressing on this show. Candy stated she was playing just another plastic teenager who had no real depth and that when she asked why her role was being done more realistically, she was told, in curt terms, you're here to be a prop, not to play Shakespeare.

Jimmy Garrett, IMO, was a little pro.....Vivian called him "The Fred Mertz of this show" because he was given the Fred Mertz type lines.

Ralph, was a professional dancer, and acting was not really his forte'.

I don't think it is fair to put the blame on the kids. They simply did what they were told and collected their paycheck. All of them have fond memories of working with Lucy, even if she wasn't the most "motherly" type on the set.

Where did you find out or read Ralph Hart was a professional dancer? In searching the Internet, there is actually very little information about Hart, except his few film and television roles listed on IMDB.com.

I do recall Hart showed his dancing ability on some episodes of "The Lucy Show." One was the second (titled "Ethel Merman & The Boy Scout Show") of the two-parter with guest star Ethel Merman, in which Hart performs an acrobatic dance number that features some amazing handstands and back flips.

But I recall another episode of "The Lucy Show" in which Hart also dances, I think in the context of an audition that takes place in the living room of the "Lucy Carmichael" home. But that scene was edited out of syndicated broadcasts, leaving only a brief moment of Hart dashing up (or down) the staircase wearing a ballet costume (leotard & tights). Unfortunately, I do not recall the title of that episode, nor which season it originally aired.

Perhaps you may remember this other scene of Ralph Hart dancing on "The Lucy Show," and in which episode it was featured? I am thinking I may have seen this as one of the extras of a deleted scene on one of the DVD sets.

Anyway, given there are at least these two scenes of Ralph Hart dancing on "The Lucy Show," you are obviously correct Hart had a dance background, which the show's writers obviously wished to exploit in the series. I would like to know where you found the information confirming Ralph Hart's dance training, and am sure other Lucy and dance fans would find this interesting too.

Thank you.

[PracTz]

I agree that the format was best when Viv and the kids were there- if for no other reason than give Lucy so motivation re her kooky stunts and comedy. It seems Lucille Ball went to a great deal of trouble to CAST these kids then didn't seem to know what to do with them besides have them scream a few lines here and there. In fact, I can't recall any of them being involved in a single physical stunt of Lucy's - unlike Viv and Mr. Mooney. The closest I can think of is when Jerry had to leave the kitchen assembly line of Viv's Cracker Jack Wannabee Concoction after eating too much. I'm not saying I'd have wanted any of the performers risking life or limb but why not have them do something showing their participation since wouldn't one's kids be more involved in one's life than a banker? LOL
Yeah, after Lucy moved to California, she seemed to have zero interest in the kids- the very last interaction would be of her directing Jerry's school choir in her apartment. And even when Viv would visit, neither would ask the other about her kids or mention her own despite having raised them together for some years before.
Sherman seems the least drawn out. This despite the fact that he evidently had his parents' marriage break up when he was still very young and then his mother moved in to Lucy's house and he shared a room with Jerry for some years before his mother suddenly remarried- yet never was there the slightest reference as to how he felt about his father or stepfather much less parting from his 'siblings' or 'Aunt Lucy'.

[jehobden]

Originally Posted by jimmo

Where did you find out or read Ralph Hart was a professional dancer? In searching the Internet, there is actually very little information about Hart, except his few film and television roles listed on IMDB.com.

I do recall Hart showed his dancing ability on some episodes of "The Lucy Show." One was the second (titled "Ethel Merman & The Boy Scout Show") of the two-parter with guest star Ethel Merman, in which Hart performs an acrobatic dance number that features some amazing handstands and back flips.

But I recall another episode of "The Lucy Show" in which Hart also dances, I think in the context of an audition that takes place in the living room of the "Lucy Carmichael" home. But that scene was edited out of syndicated broadcasts, leaving only a brief moment of Hart dashing up (or down) the staircase wearing a ballet costume (leotard & tights). Unfortunately, I do not recall the title of that episode, nor which season it originally aired.

Perhaps you may remember this other scene of Ralph Hart dancing on "The Lucy Show," and in which episode it was featured? I am thinking I may have seen this as one of the extras of a deleted scene on one of the DVD sets.

Anyway, given there are at least these two scenes of Ralph Hart dancing on "The Lucy Show," you are obviously correct Hart had a dance background, which the show's writers obviously wished to exploit in the series. I would like to know where you found the information confirming Ralph Hart's dance training, and am sure other Lucy and dance fans would find this interesting too.

Thank you.

I agree with you about Ralph Hart's dancing ability. He did some very good dancing in the Ethel Merman episode. A friend pointed out to me that Ralph also appeared in the very first scene of the movie "Gypsy" as a dancer, along with several other children, but all he did in that film was stand on stage in the background of the scene.

[lucy&vivfan]

The kids were unnecessary. The only reason they had them was to avoid in question in the audience's mind that these were not middle-aged lesbians living together.

[LittleRickyII]

Originally Posted by lucy&vivfan

The kids were unnecessary. The only reason they had them was to avoid in question in the audience's mind that these were not middle-aged lesbians living together.

Umm . . . no. The children were there because the show was based on the 1961 book, Life without George. Life without George was about a divorced mother from a small New England town, who had a daughter, and who took in another divorced mother, and her son, as boarders in order to make ends meet.

[lucy&vivfan]

Very loosely based. There were those on the show who said that was the reason the kids were included. In the industry, the show was often called "The Dyke Sans Dick Show". (Sorry to be vulgar, but that was what it was called.) Even with children. Fast forward to ten years later, in the early 1970s, "The Odd Couple" was not a hit in the Midwest because people felt it was about two gay guys....honest to God, it is the truth.

[LittleRickyII]

Originally Posted by lucy&vivfan

Very loosely based. There were those on the show who said that was the reason the kids were included. In the industry, the show was often called "The Dyke Sans Dick Show". (Sorry to be vulgar, but that was what it was called.) Even with children. Fast forward to ten years later, in the early 1970s, "The Odd Couple" was not a hit in the Midwest because people felt it was about two gay guys....honest to God, it is the truth.

Yes, I'm well aware of the "Dyke sans Dick" joke that went around at the time, but that was after the show went on the air, not while the format was originally being conceived. The format was based on that book. Clearly, the show was inspired by I Love Lucy, but the framework of the show was very much molded around Irene Kampen's book. The only significant changes, other than the names of the characters, was that Kampen's character (whom Lucy Carmichael was based upon) was changed from divorcee to widow and given an extra child (son Jerry). Otherwise, the show pretty much follows the book: both the book and the show took place in a small town; in both the book and the show, the two women were mothers; in both the book and the show, the tenant had a son; in both the book and the show, the main character (and landlord) had a daughter named Chris (Irene Kampen's daughter was Christine); in the book and in the show, one of the women owned the house, the other was the tenant; in both the book and the show, there was male friend named Harry; Life without George took place in Connecticut, The Lucy Show took place in New York state close to Connecticut. The home Irene Kampen lived in when she and her husband divorced was in Ridgefield, Connecticut, which is about 9 miles from Danbury, Connecticut, and close to the New York state line. For The Lucy Show, portmanteaus were created from Danbury and Ridgefield, becoming Danfield and Ridgebury (Ridgebury was a neighboring town often referenced, and once visited, on TLS).

Here is a synopsis of Life without George:

https://www.kirkusreviews.com/book-r...ithout-george/
A feminine audit of a life without a man provides an intimate to degage rundown of its pleasures (neglecting the dishes; putting on blue nailpolish; reading old Kathleen Norris novels) as against the difficulties (the blown fuse; stalled car; and-obviously- the check book). It also provides some scattered vignettes of two not always gay divorcees and their householding in Connecticut (near Danbury) with a child apiece and two Siamese cats. There are the occasional men who prefer to settle in for a comfortable evening rather than take them out; the winters of snow shoveling and commuting; the coping with the encroachment of sumac on the lawn or water in the cellar. On the other hand, there's Harry, and his casual camaraderie; some hostessing at a horse show; and their dedicated participation in the little theatre group and a soggy production of Rain .....A flyaway and pleasantly pert entertainment.

Reading that brings to mind a number of early episodes of The Lucy Show: Blown fuse makes me think of out-of-service antenna in "Lucy Puts Up an Antenna"; men who prefer to settle in for a comfortable evening rather than take them out is the premise of the first half of the "Rumpus Room" episode; coping with the encroachment of sumac on the lawn brings to mind "Lucy Buys a Sheep"; dedicated participation in the little theatre group and a soggy production of 'Rain' makes me think of "Lucy Plays Cleopatra"; Harry, of course, I think of Harry Connors; water in the cellar reminds me of both the "shower" episode and the scene in "Rumpus Room" when coal gets dumped in the cellar; the issue of "the check book" reminds me of most episodes. I wonder what other nuggets are in this book that may have inspired episodes of the series?

[damon strong]

There was a total lack of warmth between Viv and her son Sherman. I didn't believe for a second that they were mother and son.

[biffbronson]

When Vivian was still with the series, it was sort of a "blended families" approach. Without Viv, the emphasis fell on Lucy as a single woman, with more focus on her work and potential romances.

If Jerry & Chris had remained in the scripts, their inclusion potentially could have made the show more like My Three Sons, where certain episodes would focus on one or the other. The thing was though that Lucille Ball was such an energetic presence -- that kind of domesticated approach somehow seems unlikely. Yet with Here's Lucy, we have her with a son & daughter -- so things did come around...!

[SalParadise]

I was going to mention that. Seems background info on why the kids were in the show centers around them not being a needed part of the series.

[SalParadise]

The show was much better, or should I say 'rounded' when the kids were part of it. Don't forget, also, that Vance left the full time cast after season three (when the kids were vaporized) as well.

The series, IMO, ceased being fun to watch after season 3. I can never understand how it was ranked so high, even after Vance left. It's as if America had become addicted to watching Ball and her Lucy Ricardo character.

Desi Arnaz, who went to great lengths to connect the show to the book, tried to keep the series true to it when The Lucy Show started in 1962. He didn't want her playing Lucy Ricardo, and was searching for some sort of 'third way' for her character. He pushed for the kids in the cast as well. And for Vance. Vance basically signed on as a favor to Arnaz, who she was close to.

Without the kids the show just became a 30 comedy routine. Lucy Ricardo takes over the new Lucy Carmichael and that's that. Arnaz had noted he didn't want that to happen but after he left the show lost control of the content. Ball, of course, was in charge and must have felt better going back to Lucy Ricardo.

I still think the series would have done well had the kids stayed. They were always minor characters, but could have been written into more episodes. But, with Ball returning to Lucy Ricardo, they were only props. Candy Moore, who is getting some bad raps on this thread, was coached to say her lines like she did, and came across as a total idiot. Which is pretty much what Ball thought of kids acting. Moore was actually a fairly good teen actress who had guest spots on shows like Leave It To Beaver and The Donna Reed Show. Seeing her on The Lucy Show gives you a good idea of how little Ball knew about kids and using the cast. It's sad. Moore got a bum deal from the series and her career was over after she was cut from the cast. I'm sure had Arnaz stayed with Desilu that the kids would have had better roles and would have developed much differently on the series.

[bliss]

I prefer Lucy with the kids & Viv. It was more family-oriented. Same with Here's Lucy. I loved it when her real-life kids played her TV kids and Mr. Mooney morphed into Uncle Harry. Again a family-oriented sitcom.

It gets tedious when the Lucy character goes gaga over the "celebrity" of the week imo.