Roc Boned the Fish When...

[TMC]

http://www.bonethefish.com/viewtopics.php?1832

Roc was an American comedy-drama television series which ran on FOX from 1991 to 1994. It starred Charles S. Dutton as Baltimore garbage collector Roc Emerson and Ella Joyce as his wife Eleanor.

https://web.archive.org/web/20070225...ptheshark.com/

• Other Thoughts:
  
  The live episode (assuming anyone watched it).
  It had to be AFTER the show was preformed live. That was when they got moved to the crappiest time slot in the history of television (they are still shown from time to time around 3am on BET) As a matter of fact the show never really jumped. The plots stay reasonable close to believable and even after the live episodes the cast mantained they're high quality work. This was some of the best acting of Charles Dutton's illustrious career and some of the best writing the small screen has ever seen. It stayed away from the "after-school-special-syndrome" while still delivering a positive and real (for the most part) message. Fine work and my kudos to everyone involved!
  Roc was a good show when the family just consisted of Roc, Elinor, Pop and Joey. That was a funny family unit right there, and it should have been left alone. But NO-O-OO-OH! They had to add a new baby and a 12-year-old girl whose daddy's in jail (Good Times, anyone?). Why they thought they had to add kids, I'll never know. POP AND JOEY WERE THE KIDS! They were a lot funnier than any real kid could have been.
  This show was great!! Much to subtle I think to be appreciated by the majority of TV viewers...I was upset it got cancelled...it was one class act!
  I agree. It did go downhill, after the live episode.
  Roc definitely went straight to hell after it went live. The show started out as a great sit-com and turned into a politically charged piece of crap after it went live... I always figured they made the show serious so the actors wouldn't be tempted to laugh during the live shoot... any way you look at it, live is always a bad choice for sit-coms.
  This was a really good show with Roc, Elanor, Joey and the father, that is until Roc started getting preachy every week. Then they brought on a kid (Kim Fields little sister). There was no need for a child on this show.
  The addition of the kids wasn't the best move, but Roc really jumped the shark when it got moved to crappy time slot.
  This show never jumped. Sure it got preachy and went live and added a child. Oh my god maybe it did jump and I just don't know it. Nahhhh it still remains one of the best ever.
  I think Roc tanked when they started doing all the episodes live. I never got used to the video look (the show had been on film), and I always felt bad when an actor was obviously having difficulty. The guy who played the dad seemed to have an especially difficult time with the live format. Great show, but it was a terrible thing to do to the actors.
  I didn't mind so much that the show went live. It was the fact that they made it too obvious. Okay, so the show is live. Good. But did they have to show the people behind the set between each break? I think it was a disruption. We all know that sitcoms are fake, but watching, you as a viewer should get some sense of reality at least for the length of the show. Showing the cameras, set and audience before commercials made me think too much of the live aspect of the show and lesser of the message of show.
  The live show and later, the changed credits. The first credits were dark and brooding, giving the show dignity. The second one was light, and happy. Kinda funny, because the show got more serious when the credits changed. Plus, for someone who was supposed to be a nurse, Eleanor sure acted dumb!
  When En Vogue got on the show and just plugged their songs, I was just thinking "Ahhhhhhh, CRAP!"
  Even with the addition of a child (an ironclad guarantee that the show is slipping in ratings and some stupid network executive claiming his place in the long of I Love Lucy copycats demanded it) and even stuck in an awful slot, the show never lost integrity. OK, the laughs were fairly uncomfortable at times, but the show was top-flight right to the end.
  In the 3rd season when they added Ronnie's daughter (Alexis Fields) to the show. If I remember correctly Ronnie (played by Tone Loc) killed or wounded Andre the drug dealer, entrusting Roc with his daughter. She wasn't bad or anything but Roc and Eleanor had a newborn baby so why would they take in another person while supporting three other people? A correction to make: the entire 2nd season was live and so were 1 or 2 shows from the 1st season. The best live episode was the one where Eleanor delivers a stillborn baby by a homeless couple (played by Tommy Davidson and Charles S. Dutton's ex Debbi Morgan), that was truly a heartbreaking episode. Unfortunately, living in the west coast we saw the edited live episodes with practically no flubbed lines or bursts of laughter. (Roc's father did fumble quite a few lines.) Another minor quibble was that they changed the theme music. I'm sorry, but I don't like En Vogue's version. The accapella doowop version of "God Bless The Child" (?) was fantastic. I guess they tried to get young viewers with that theme; I was 13 at the time and disliked it. The third season wasn't a dramatic fall in quality a la "Roseanne" but you could probably tell they were reaching for storylines, often preaching. One example is when Alexis Fields' character's friend was forced to give up his shoes or coat by a gang. The second time he was accosted by the gang, instead of giving up his shoes (or whatever) he pulls a gun on them and they leave him alone. Incidentally, after receiving a lecture from Roc and co. he gets mowed down in a drive-by. Correct me if I'm wrong but this may have been the episode where Dutton concludes it by giving a PSA-like speech against violence and using himself as an example (he served time for manslaughter.) There were some good episodes from that year. The one I can think of is where Roc almost cheats on Eleanor with his ex. Lastly, FOX didn't give this show much respect. It was on Sundays then they moved it to Tuesdays, assuring its fate - cancelled.
  This show already started on thin ice, but making Joey out to be this horse expert? On the show, he couldn't hit a bet to save his soul. In actuality, someone should have shoved that gold Trumpet up his ass sideways for making such stupid bets... Not even a mention of any horse racing terms to even make it believable. And as for Roc, he was just a whining, preachy, loser. Just go do your job and quit whining. Andrew the old man had more balls than Roc and Joey. And ROC standing up to that gangbanger? Oh please!!! Eleanor would have been buying a black dress for that fat bastard. Crips and bloods dont give a damn about garbage men. If the show was real, Roc would have his ass kicked royally, and Eleanor would have gotten a train run on her because of loser husband. That would have made great prime time drama!
  This show was one of the best in the history of the FOX network (when they still had great shows)! But this show seemed to change for the worse when they decided to change the opening theme song. The original theme was good enough, so why fix something if it's not broken. This music change was followed by all the other things (live broadcasts, time changes, etc.) that led to the demise of an otherwise great sitcom.
  I thought the show was well-written at first, but when they let the wisecracking street orphan move in and Roc's wife had the baby (with the quickest and cleanest labor on record, by the way), I knew that was all she wrote!
  "Roc" was a sincere attempt to capture an authentic component of the African-American experience in sit-com form, unlike shows like "The Cosby Show" which had no ties to AA culture (the Huxtables could have all been White with no change at all in the series). The accapella doo-wop sound accompanied by B&W street scenes was the perfect opener for it. Tragically, this approach was too good to last, so they re-worked the theme song and the show itself it to make it more "hip" (i.e. more White). The move to live broadcasting was a bad gimmick, a feeble attempt to cash in on Charles Dutton's fame as a stage actor. Still, when the minute we heard the "hip" new theme song, the death knell for a once great show had sounded.
  Well, it's hard to disagree with most of the praise AND criticism of this important show. Dutton is one of the best actors in the US! (note I didn't say BLACK actors--I saw him onstage in a THREE HOUR one man show and I was not bored for a nanosecond!). The first few seasons were superior. The guest appearance by Richard Roundtree (of Shaft fame) as Pop's gay brother was one of my favorites. An interracial gay wedding episode that didn't suck!! That takes TALENT to pull off, both in front of and behind the camera. (Favorite moment in this episode: the two brothers are in a gay restaurant. Pop, realizing this says 'what will people think' and Roundtree's character responds 'they'll think the younger guy can do better!) But I have to agree that adding the little girl WAS the cue for the Jaws music. Someone else said it well: they HAD two kids: Pop and Joey!!! As for the live episodes (and I'm biased here as a stage actor) I rather LIKED that admitted 'gimmick'--it gave it a different edge--and, while most of us are too young to remember, at one time almost ALL TV was performed live. Sure,Pop flubbed his lines, and you saw the stage managers, but from personal experience I can tell you live vs. tape adds something to your performance! These were all stage trained actors--I think this took balls to do. Can you imagine the hacks on shows like "Friends" going live? I think not! But the final nail in the coffin was indeed those preachy episodes about drugs in the hood, etc. I mean, didn't the 'powers that be' GET IT? This show was INHERENTLY political--it didn't NEED to have this 'political relevance' superimposed on it. Definitely ruined a near-classic. Would love to get first few seasons on DVD. P.S. I thought Eleanor was HOT--an attractive Black woman who wasn't skinny, didn't have white features, and wasn't just out of college--a rarity then! (and still, to some degree)
  It never jumped. Although every episode should have opened with the subtitle "A Black Tribute to All In The Family"
  This show was pretty good. It really jumped when Roc ran for some kind of Alderman office or something. He laid out a plan for a worker's paradise, a real social utopia. Like a city councilman is going to radically change our whole way of life. Alienated a lot of people. A show like Roc cannot sustain itself when it gets political.
  What i wanna know is how come "Live" episodes are considered JTS? It should be the exact opposite! Live television harkens back to the "golden age" of television when the best actors could also be found on TV. (Remember live teleplays like "Marty", which was made into an oscar winning motion picture?) Live TV also 'harkens' back to live theater where actors sharpen their skills. To be able to write a show by a given night for all parties (cast & crew) to deliver a polished as you can get performance live for millions must take big balls. So someone explain to me why doing live tv is considered jumping the shark.
  Well, since you asked, going live is considered a shark jump because it signals that the creative team is running out of ideas, and they're using the 'live' gimmick in the hopes of inflating the ratings a bit. Live episodes of scripted programs aren't any more entertaining than taped ones would be, except for watching the actors piss all over the 'fourth wall' by screwing up their lines and shattering the illusion of reality. Roc was a fine show, but by switching to a live format, they were basically announcing that they were treading water creatively and were hoping that going live would distract you from the fact.
  ROC was one of the most stylish and intelligent sitcoms ever to grace our television screens. This story of a garbage man and his family who was always dreaming of a better life could have almost been classified as a "dramedy" as the show was thought-provoking and had other priorities than finding the quickest chuckle and the cheapest gag. This show had writing vastly superior to most of the sitcoms on television today and more than anything else, it had the magnificent Charles S. Dutton as its title character. Dutton is an electrifying character actor who has brought class and sophistication to small parts in many films over the years and was finally given his big break with ROC, unfortunately, the show was much too intelligent and sophisticated for its target audience and they chose to ignore it. For those of us who did appreciate this neglected gem, ROC was one of television's best gifts that never jumped the shark during its brief run.
  ROC never JTS, and I was surprised and disappointed to see it cancelled. It was a very astute and sensitive portrait of a city garbageman doing whatever it took to take care of his family and live the American dream. Definitely defeated the standard sitcom mold, and it didn't require me to suspend disbelief in order to enjoy it. All of the characters were believable and seemed to fit with what was going on. No cardboard there. Charles Dutton seemed to really put his heart into ROC, and it was a shame the show didn't get the support it deserved. Oh, well.
  I don't think the baby, or the live shows caused Roc to jump. It jumped for me when the characters faults were constantly harped on in totally unsubtle and unfunny ways. Did every single show have to have cheap jokes about how cheap Roc was? Did we have to be constantly hit over the head with remarks about how irresponsible Joey was? They totally stripped his character of any other facets. Roc started out as an intelligent, adult, keep-it-real show that began to treat its characters like caricatures instead of human beings.