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Brad Russ · 11-21-2003, 03:20 PM

What pro athlete do you think had the biggest talent plunge in his/her career? Sadly, their are lots of people who can fit into this category, but my pick is Shawn Kemp. At his peak, he was in great shape, he was one of the best dunkers and scorers in the league, he had tons of endorsement deals, including shoes named after him, and at one point he looked like he'd go down in history as one of the greats. Unfortunately, he went from that, to being 60 pounds overweight, barely able to jump up high enough to dunk, getting in trouble with drugs, and scoring about 3, to 6 points a game on a good night. I don't even think he's playing in the NBA anymore, which is pretty sad, because if he had stayed in shape, and kept his life together, he'd probably still be a top level player today. Hopefully though he has cleaned things up, and is doing better in his life now. Anyway, who do you all think has made the biggest talent plunge in pro sports history?

jekouptown · 11-21-2003, 05:48 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by mdntrider7
What pro athlete do you think had the biggest talent plunge in his/her career? Sadly, their are lots of people who can fit into this category, but my pick is Shawn Kemp. At his peak, he was in great shape, he was one of the best dunkers and scorers in the league, he had tons of endorsement deals, including shoes named after him, and at one point he looked like he'd go down in history as one of the greats. Unfortunately, he went from that, to being 60 pounds overweight, barely able to jump up high enough to dunk, getting in trouble with drugs, and scoring about 3, to 6 points a game on a good night. I don't even think he's playing in the NBA anymore, which is pretty sad, because if he had stayed in shape, and kept his life together, he'd probably still be a top level player today. Hopefully though he has cleaned things up, and is doing better in his life now. Anyway, who do you all think has made the biggest talent plunge in pro sports history?

he never could shoot. Kemp let gary payton,salt & pepper, child support and his social life take him out of basketball.

I would have to vote for MIKE TYSON. all the natural ability. BIG DUMB KID though.

Pedantic · 11-21-2003, 06:32 PM

Don't forget, Kemp isn't playing AND he's still getting a paycheck worth double digit millions from the Blazers just this year.

Brad Russ · 11-22-2003, 02:48 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by jekouptown
he never could shoot. Kemp let gary payton,salt & pepper, child support and his social life take him out of basketball.

I would have to vote for MIKE TYSON. all the natural ability. BIG DUMB KID though.

Where in my post did I say he could shoot? I said he was a good dunker, and scorer, which he was. Afterall, he did average over 20 points a game at one point in his career.

Janice · 11-22-2003, 02:52 AM

Daryl Strawberry paid a hefty price for his substance abuse problem.

Of course, I just reread the question and realized my answer doesn't apply. Oh well. Sorry.

Brad Russ · 11-22-2003, 03:29 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Janice
Daryl Strawberry paid a hefty price for his substance abuse problem.

Of course, I just reread the question and realized my answer doesn't apply. Oh well. Sorry.

Why wouldn't your answer apply? I believe Darryl Strawberry was still playing when he started using drugs, and if I recall correctly, his performance suffered quite a bit from it. I may be wrong though. His problems may have started after his career was over, I'm not totally sure.

isiahthomas · 11-22-2003, 12:36 PM

Darryl Strawberry was definitely a waste of talent. He has a job with the Yankees again. I forgot what his job is but how many owners do u know are gonna keep giving guys a chance to do right? George Steinbrenner must really love Darryl. Doc Gooden is another player who had lots of talent & who was a very good pitcher back in the day who had drug problems. Roy Tarpley who used to play for the Dallas Mavericks back in the mid 80's to early 90's was a good basketball player off the bench who had got banned from the league for drugs. He tried to make a comeback this yr but nobody wanted to take a chance with him. Stanley Roberts is another former NBA player who had talent when he started out with the Clippers & Orlando. He also tried to make a comeback this yr but nobody signed him. He had a drug problem too. I heard that he was better than Shaq in college when they both played at LSU. JR Rider is also another dude who let me down. He had drug problems & he was always missing team flights & practices. He was a very good ballplayer with Minnesota, Portland, Atlanta. I wish the Lakers would've played him a lot more when he was there. Remember Chris Washburn back in the day who got drafted in 86 for Golden State Warriors? He didn't last long at all in the league cause he had drug problems. Len Bias is another player who everybody was talkin about in the 86 NBA draft but he died before he even played a NBA game because of drugs. He was very good at University of Maryland i heard but i've never seen highlights of him.

Shawn Kemp has got to be the biggest disappointment in NBA history. That dude was the man earlier in his career for Seattle. I loved to watch him play when he was with Seattle. Gary Payton would always throw him alleyoops & u know it was gonna be a sure dunk cause Shawn would go up to catch it & it was a easy 2 points. He was ferocious on defense too. He would block shots into the seats back in the day LOL. When he got to Cleveland is when the problems started with him being overweight & having all these babies by different women. I had no idea he was having all these kids. He was still good when he was with Cleveland but when he went to Portland, his career was over. He hardly played & he should've retired when Portland let him go. He didn't do jack in Orlando last season. Remember Richard Dumas for the Phoenix Suns? He was on Phoenix's team in the early 90's & he went to the finals with them when they played the Bulls in the 93 championship. He left the league early cause he had a drug problem. Phoenix had a tight team back then when they had Charles Barkley, Kevin Johnson, Dan Majerle, Mark West(LOL), Oliver Miller(LOL this dude was too overweight). Richard Dumas had a lot of talent. He was a big time scorer. John Williams is another player i used to like a lot. He played for the Washington Bullets back in the day in the mid 80's to early 90's. He was a very good scorer off the bench. He ended up overweight later on in his career & he got traded to the Clippers. He finished his career with the Clippers & he did nothin there. Pervis Ellison is another player who was very good with the Washington Bullets in the early 90's but he had too many knee injuries. He finished his career with Boston about 3-4 yrs ago if i'm not mistaken. He had long dreadlocks that made him look like a girl LOL. He didn't do jack for Boston. I wish Bo Jackson would've stuck to football cause he was a great running back for the LA Raiders. It's unfortunate he got hurt in a playoff game yrs ago & had to end his career. I think if he would've only played football, he would've had a longer career. Everybody can't play 2 sports at once. Deion Sanders shouldn't have played football & baseball either.

Ken Griffey Jr also has been a big letdown. He has gotten hurt too much since he's been with Cincinnati. He never got hurt that much when he was with Seattle. It's time for him to quit now. Albert Belle was also a letdown. When he played for the Cleveland Indians, he was the man. I wish he would've finished his career with Cleveland. When he got to Chicago White Sox, he was still a good player but when he went to Baltimore, he didn't do much there & Baltimore never made the playoffs while he was there. What can i say about Dennis Rodman? LOL. He was the man when he was with Detroit & he was sane. Then all of a sudden, he goes to the Spurs & Bulls & he acts like a weirdo dressing up like a woman in a wedding gown, painting his toenails, dying his hair different colors, getting all kinds of tattoos & piercings. He tried to come back to the league this past offseason & nobody wanted him cause he's too much of a distraction. He's still getting in trouble with the law for having loud parties at his beach home in California & driving drunk. What a waste.

isiahthomas · 11-22-2003, 12:42 PM

Remember Kevin Duckworth? LOL. He was another good player for the Portland Trail Blazers in the mid 80's & early 90's. When he got to traded to Washington for Rasheed Wallace, his career went downhill from there. He was too overweight when he got to Washington. He ended up leaving Washington for the Clippers. He finished his career with the Clippers & he did nothin there. I remember he used to collect alligators back in the day as his pets LOL. Somebody in Washington's management back in the day needs to be slapped. How could they trade Rasheed for Kevin? Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha. John Nash who is Portland's GM right now was Washington's GM during that time when Washington had Rasheed.

Janice · 11-22-2003, 01:18 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by mdntrider7
Why wouldn't your answer apply? I believe Darryl Strawberry was still playing when he started using drugs, and if I recall correctly, his performance suffered quite a bit from it. I may be wrong though. His problems may have started after his career was over, I'm not totally sure.

I took your question to mean, just a talent plunge, not when someone causes their own problems and gets fired.

I'm glad my answer applied. I'll ask my husband, the sport's nut, to give me more examples.

Brian Damage · 11-22-2003, 02:15 PM

If you mention Daryl Strawberry, you can't forget about Dwight Gooden either.

sinatrastar · 11-22-2003, 02:41 PM

Duckworth - he was never that good to have a major talent drop. Kemp is up there, also Penny Hardaway. He was the next big thing with Little Penny and everything now he is just another player on the Suns.

EricIdlefan · 11-22-2003, 06:42 PM

Since my speciality is the NFL, I say Ryan Leaf, Curtis Enis, Heath Shuler, Tony Madnovich, Todd(I forget his name but he is the left-handed quarterback formerly of the Raiders who has had run-ins with the law over drug abuse), there are many, many, more but can't think of them!!

Brad Russ · 11-22-2003, 07:51 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Janice
I took your question to mean, just a talent plunge, not when someone causes their own problems and gets fired.

I'm glad my answer applied. I'll ask my husband, the sport's nut, to give me more examples.

After re-reading my original post myself, I can see why you thought your answer didn't apply. Looks like I worded the question wrong, (as I seem to do so often). I think I better use the edit option more frequently. I probably should have titled the post biggest fall from grace, or something to that effect. That's basically what I meant, so Darrly Strawberry is a good candidate!

Sounds like the Yankees are doing everything in their power to keep him on the straight and narrow. Hopefully with their support he'll be able to get his life together!

Brad Russ · 11-22-2003, 08:36 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by isiahthomas
Ken Griffey Jr also has been a big letdown. He has gotten hurt too much since he's been with Cincinnati. He never got hurt that much when he was with Seattle. It's time for him to quit now.

That's a really good choice. I just thought of him last night, and was going to mention him. With Seattle, his lifetime batting average was around 300, and he average like 40 home runs a year. As soon as he went to Cincinnati, the bad luck with injuries started for him. I believe his lifetime B.A. with Cincinnati is around 250, and he's probably only played around 40 percent of the games they've played since he's been their. I heard about a month ago that Seattle may be interested in signing Ken Griffey again if Cincinnati chooses to trade him. Personally, I'd love to see him back with Seattle. I believe he can still be a great player.

Another guy who was really great was Frank Thomas. He was amazing a few years ago, but this year, especially his career has really suffered to say the least. I think I recall his B.A being around 200 at one point this year.

Quote:

Originally posted by sinatrastar
Duckworth - he was never that good to have a major talent drop. Kemp is up there, also Penny Hardaway. He was the next big thing with Little Penny and everything now he is just another player on the Suns.

Yeah, I think Duckworth was a pretty good player, but he was never great. His career scoring average was around 14, or 15 points. He did have a breakout year in 1989 I believe, where he averaged about 18 points per game, and even went to the all star game, but I think that was his only really good year.

Penny Hardaway is another great choice! For his first 3 or 4 years, he averaged around 22 points a game alongside Shaq. I use to love all those Little Penny commercials he did. LOL. I believe he had a serious injury as well, which turned out to be the turning point in his career. That, and Shaq being traded.

Brian · 11-22-2003, 10:00 PM

"Wild Thing" Mitch Williams had an ok career until Game 6 of the 1993 World Series when he gave up a go-ahead World Series winning home run to Joe Carter with the Phillies leading 6-5. That sent his career downhill. This was after he blew a lead a few games back and lost 15-14. He was traded after the Series. The last time I heard, he was a pitching coach for a minor league team.

Lamarr Hoyt was a good pitcher in the 1980s. He won a Cy Young Award for the White Sox in 1983 and was the All-Star Game MVP for the San Diego Padres in 1985. He started using coke and his career suffered because of it.

Donnie Moore was a good reliever for the Angels but in the ALCS in 1986, with one strike away from sending the Angels to their first World Series, gave up a two-run home run to Boston's Dave Henderson. It game the Sox a 6-5 lead and the Angels would lose in extra innings 7-6. The Angels unraveled and lost three straight to remain pennantless at the time. In 1989, Donnie Moore, dejected and unable to let go of the home run, shot his wife and then shot himself. It was really sad.

Steve Blass pitched well for the World Champion Pittsburgh Pirates in 1971. However, teammate and future Hall of Famer Roberto Clemente's untimely death from a plane crash in the ocean apparently caused him much grief and he didn't pitch well at all after that.

John Rocker. I'm surprised nobody mentioned him because he was a good closer for the Braves but after those really bad comments he made about New Yorkers, his career has since nosedived. He was released by the Tampa Bay Devil Rays last season.

I know some of these players weren't great but they were worth mentioning, at least to me.

11-21-2003, 03:20 PM	#1
Brad Russ Member Forum Fanatic Join Date: Feb 17, 2002 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 10,085	From great, to bad What pro athlete do you think had the biggest talent plunge in his/her career? Sadly, their are lots of people who can fit into this category, but my pick is Shawn Kemp. At his peak, he was in great shape, he was one of the best dunkers and scorers in the league, he had tons of endorsement deals, including shoes named after him, and at one point he looked like he'd go down in history as one of the greats. Unfortunately, he went from that, to being 60 pounds overweight, barely able to jump up high enough to dunk, getting in trouble with drugs, and scoring about 3, to 6 points a game on a good night. I don't even think he's playing in the NBA anymore, which is pretty sad, because if he had stayed in shape, and kept his life together, he'd probably still be a top level player today. Hopefully though he has cleaned things up, and is doing better in his life now. Anyway, who do you all think has made the biggest talent plunge in pro sports history?
	__________________ St. John 15:13 - Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends." Currently my favorite song.

11-21-2003, 06:32 PM	#3
Pedantic It is inevitable Frequent Poster Join Date: Mar 10, 2003 Location: Nowhere important Posts: 208	Don't forget, Kemp isn't playing AND he's still getting a paycheck worth double digit millions from the Blazers just this year.
	__________________ "The Mariners are just like our beer: They're ice cold and go down easy."

11-22-2003, 06:42 PM	#12
EricIdlefan USA 250th! Forum Addict Join Date: Oct 12, 2003 Location: East TN Posts: 68,236	Since my speciality is the NFL, I say Ryan Leaf, Curtis Enis, Heath Shuler, Tony Madnovich, Todd(I forget his name but he is the left-handed quarterback formerly of the Raiders who has had run-ins with the law over drug abuse), there are many, many, more but can't think of them!!
	__________________ JUSA 250th Anniversary!

11-22-2003, 02:52 AM	#5
Janice Retired Admin - Hollywood Swingin' Forum Legend Join Date: Aug 03, 2001 Location: Beantown Posts: 36,388	Daryl Strawberry paid a hefty price for his substance abuse problem. Of course, I just reread the question and realized my answer doesn't apply. Oh well. Sorry.

11-22-2003, 12:36 PM	#7
isiahthomas Member Forum Fanatic Join Date: Aug 20, 2002 Location: Cleveland, Ohio Posts: 10,704	Darryl Strawberry was definitely a waste of talent. He has a job with the Yankees again. I forgot what his job is but how many owners do u know are gonna keep giving guys a chance to do right? George Steinbrenner must really love Darryl. Doc Gooden is another player who had lots of talent & who was a very good pitcher back in the day who had drug problems. Roy Tarpley who used to play for the Dallas Mavericks back in the mid 80's to early 90's was a good basketball player off the bench who had got banned from the league for drugs. He tried to make a comeback this yr but nobody wanted to take a chance with him. Stanley Roberts is another former NBA player who had talent when he started out with the Clippers & Orlando. He also tried to make a comeback this yr but nobody signed him. He had a drug problem too. I heard that he was better than Shaq in college when they both played at LSU. JR Rider is also another dude who let me down. He had drug problems & he was always missing team flights & practices. He was a very good ballplayer with Minnesota, Portland, Atlanta. I wish the Lakers would've played him a lot more when he was there. Remember Chris Washburn back in the day who got drafted in 86 for Golden State Warriors? He didn't last long at all in the league cause he had drug problems. Len Bias is another player who everybody was talkin about in the 86 NBA draft but he died before he even played a NBA game because of drugs. He was very good at University of Maryland i heard but i've never seen highlights of him. Shawn Kemp has got to be the biggest disappointment in NBA history. That dude was the man earlier in his career for Seattle. I loved to watch him play when he was with Seattle. Gary Payton would always throw him alleyoops & u know it was gonna be a sure dunk cause Shawn would go up to catch it & it was a easy 2 points. He was ferocious on defense too. He would block shots into the seats back in the day LOL. When he got to Cleveland is when the problems started with him being overweight & having all these babies by different women. I had no idea he was having all these kids. He was still good when he was with Cleveland but when he went to Portland, his career was over. He hardly played & he should've retired when Portland let him go. He didn't do jack in Orlando last season. Remember Richard Dumas for the Phoenix Suns? He was on Phoenix's team in the early 90's & he went to the finals with them when they played the Bulls in the 93 championship. He left the league early cause he had a drug problem. Phoenix had a tight team back then when they had Charles Barkley, Kevin Johnson, Dan Majerle, Mark West(LOL), Oliver Miller(LOL this dude was too overweight). Richard Dumas had a lot of talent. He was a big time scorer. John Williams is another player i used to like a lot. He played for the Washington Bullets back in the day in the mid 80's to early 90's. He was a very good scorer off the bench. He ended up overweight later on in his career & he got traded to the Clippers. He finished his career with the Clippers & he did nothin there. Pervis Ellison is another player who was very good with the Washington Bullets in the early 90's but he had too many knee injuries. He finished his career with Boston about 3-4 yrs ago if i'm not mistaken. He had long dreadlocks that made him look like a girl LOL. He didn't do jack for Boston. I wish Bo Jackson would've stuck to football cause he was a great running back for the LA Raiders. It's unfortunate he got hurt in a playoff game yrs ago & had to end his career. I think if he would've only played football, he would've had a longer career. Everybody can't play 2 sports at once. Deion Sanders shouldn't have played football & baseball either. Ken Griffey Jr also has been a big letdown. He has gotten hurt too much since he's been with Cincinnati. He never got hurt that much when he was with Seattle. It's time for him to quit now. Albert Belle was also a letdown. When he played for the Cleveland Indians, he was the man. I wish he would've finished his career with Cleveland. When he got to Chicago White Sox, he was still a good player but when he went to Baltimore, he didn't do much there & Baltimore never made the playoffs while he was there. What can i say about Dennis Rodman? LOL. He was the man when he was with Detroit & he was sane. Then all of a sudden, he goes to the Spurs & Bulls & he acts like a weirdo dressing up like a woman in a wedding gown, painting his toenails, dying his hair different colors, getting all kinds of tattoos & piercings. He tried to come back to the league this past offseason & nobody wanted him cause he's too much of a distraction. He's still getting in trouble with the law for having loud parties at his beach home in California & driving drunk. What a waste.

11-22-2003, 12:42 PM	#8
isiahthomas Member Forum Fanatic Join Date: Aug 20, 2002 Location: Cleveland, Ohio Posts: 10,704	Remember Kevin Duckworth? LOL. He was another good player for the Portland Trail Blazers in the mid 80's & early 90's. When he got to traded to Washington for Rasheed Wallace, his career went downhill from there. He was too overweight when he got to Washington. He ended up leaving Washington for the Clippers. He finished his career with the Clippers & he did nothin there. I remember he used to collect alligators back in the day as his pets LOL. Somebody in Washington's management back in the day needs to be slapped. How could they trade Rasheed for Kevin? Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha. John Nash who is Portland's GM right now was Washington's GM during that time when Washington had Rasheed.

11-22-2003, 02:15 PM	#10
Brian Damage I'm Rich Bitch Forum Icon Join Date: Feb 03, 2002 Location: What Ain't No Country I Ever Heard Of...They Speak English in What? Posts: 63,107	If you mention Daryl Strawberry, you can't forget about Dwight Gooden either.

11-22-2003, 02:41 PM	#11
sinatrastar Indian Summer Forum Veteran Join Date: Jul 22, 2003 Location: 78 W 86th St. Apt 3E Posts: 6,027	Duckworth - he was never that good to have a major talent drop. Kemp is up there, also Penny Hardaway. He was the next big thing with Little Penny and everything now he is just another player on the Suns.

11-22-2003, 10:00 PM	#15
Brian Member Forum Celebrity Join Date: Jun 23, 2001 Posts: 20,451	"Wild Thing" Mitch Williams had an ok career until Game 6 of the 1993 World Series when he gave up a go-ahead World Series winning home run to Joe Carter with the Phillies leading 6-5. That sent his career downhill. This was after he blew a lead a few games back and lost 15-14. He was traded after the Series. The last time I heard, he was a pitching coach for a minor league team. Lamarr Hoyt was a good pitcher in the 1980s. He won a Cy Young Award for the White Sox in 1983 and was the All-Star Game MVP for the San Diego Padres in 1985. He started using coke and his career suffered because of it. Donnie Moore was a good reliever for the Angels but in the ALCS in 1986, with one strike away from sending the Angels to their first World Series, gave up a two-run home run to Boston's Dave Henderson. It game the Sox a 6-5 lead and the Angels would lose in extra innings 7-6. The Angels unraveled and lost three straight to remain pennantless at the time. In 1989, Donnie Moore, dejected and unable to let go of the home run, shot his wife and then shot himself. It was really sad. Steve Blass pitched well for the World Champion Pittsburgh Pirates in 1971. However, teammate and future Hall of Famer Roberto Clemente's untimely death from a plane crash in the ocean apparently caused him much grief and he didn't pitch well at all after that. John Rocker. I'm surprised nobody mentioned him because he was a good closer for the Braves but after those really bad comments he made about New Yorkers, his career has since nosedived. He was released by the Tampa Bay Devil Rays last season. I know some of these players weren't great but they were worth mentioning, at least to me.