Tape trading legal question... - Sitcoms Online Message Boards

Agent 13 · 11-11-2003, 03:50 PM

A friend of mine recently had his tape trading only website shutdown by the MPAA. It doesn't make sense that they would attack him specifically because there are lots of other sites that boldly charge fees for tapes, let alone sites such as this one.

Any comments on this from some long-time traders?

TJ · 11-11-2003, 10:27 PM

What was your friend trading exactly? The MPAA is the Motion Picture Association of America so I can only assume he was trading first run or regular movies.

Whenever somebody asks me about the legality of tape trading I refer to them to the http://www.tvofyourlife.com website, in their FAQ section they list:

Is Videotape Trading Legal ?

Non-profit tape collecting for one's own home-use purposes is legal, and there is nothing that says non-profit tape trading is illegal. To the best of anyone's knowledge, there has never been a supreme court decision concerning non-profit tape trading, and there are no specific laws against it. The FBI, however, does have the power to make examples to discourage tape duplication and distribution.

In a phone interview (conducted 10/31/94) with officer David Grossman, Copyright Squad of the Chicago FBI states "copying videotapes is a violation only if commercial gain is made. We are only involved with major copyright infringement cases, people manufacturing and selling thousands of tapes. We don't get involved in the mom-and-pop, one or two tapes being copied. Video trading for non-profit is not a concern of ours, it's not major enough for us to get involved." He also stated that there was something that said that only seven or less copies could be made in a period of 180 days, but he wasn't sure if that applied to tape trading or not. Essentiailly, he states that the FBI is not concerned with non-profit tape trading but are when thousands of copies are being made and sold. But this wouldn't necessarily prevent them from making examples to discourage others.

-----------

And for the record this is just a tape trading message board and there are many others out there, if there was ever a problem and somebody requested that it be removed - I would do so immediately.

Agent 13 · 11-11-2003, 10:49 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by TJ
What was your friend trading exactly? The MPAA is the Motion Picture Association of America so I can only assume he was trading first run or regular movies.

TJ,

My friend had a very small website, much like we see stem from this board. He dealt with primarily really old shows/movies. PLUS he stated directly on his website that he wouldn't sell. I doubt seriously if he fell into the category of those that ought to be attacked. Perhaps they chose him randomly (?).

Thanks for your answer. I appreciate it.

Jen

bearcat · 11-11-2003, 10:54 PM

bearcat · 11-11-2003, 11:00 PM

Agent 13 · 11-11-2003, 11:26 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by bearcat
I forgot to add something ,i am through with trading ,so don't ask if would and want trade the answer is NO

If you hadn't had a chance to trade with bearcat, than you really missed out. He has great old stuff, great quality, and best of all he's a most pleasant person to deal with. We're the losers in this situation.

vashti1999 · 11-12-2003, 12:50 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by bearcat
Thanks Jen for bringing the comments, and thanks also TJ for your comments,i'am the one how as been attack by the mpaa ,it seem,and they claimed and my website provider agrees also with the conclusion of the mpaa that trading is not legit and if you look over the mpaa website it is stated that trading is not legit ,i din't know that ,i plead my case to the mpaa i'am still waiting for their reply ,and you know the most funny part is i never traded movies! only recording shows for others.

i'am completely stun and i must admit affraid of the consequences if any.

take care

It's because you're Canadian.

Seriously, it's just a guess, I don't know one way or the other but assuming the possibility that you were involved in trades across borders, that may have something to do with it.

PZelda · 11-12-2003, 02:55 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by vashti1999
It's because you're Canadian. Seriously, it's just a guess, I don't know one way or the other but assuming the possibility that you were involved in trades across borders, that may have something to do with it.

That's what I was thinking too. YOu weren't selling movies; only TV shows.

Agent 13 · 11-12-2003, 11:55 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by PZelda: VICKI!!
That's what I was thinking too. YOu weren't selling movies; only TV shows.

He only traded, by the way, stating so directly on his site.

dlemond · 11-12-2003, 12:03 PM

Closing down a website and actually getting fined or charges pressed against you are 2 completely different things.

Maybe they were trying to discourage it, but as far as legality and actually getting into trouble, I highly doubt that any the matter would be pressed any further.

PZelda · 11-12-2003, 01:50 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Agent 13
He only traded, by the way, stating so directly on his site.

Gotcha. I never got to visit that site. I just think that if you were only trading TV shows and not making a profit off of it, you should be OK. :-/

moviedude25 · 11-13-2003, 10:42 PM

What company hosted your website?

Since you are Canadian how is it that the MPAA has any jurisdiction over a Canadian website provider? The most the MPAA can do is send letters letting the provider know what's going on. The MPAA cannot enforce laws, they simply inform others what they see. And the MPAA is an American organization, meaning they don't have the same pull with other nations that they do in America. Such is the case in the Philippians where piracy is all over the place. The MPAA supplies local authorities with money to enforce the laws but it cannot make the police do that if they don't want to. And they cannot shut down any website hosted any where including the USA unless a court judge orders it first and that would only be for a USA website and not another countries. They can block and take over websites at will but American laws do not mean anything to other countries. A Canadian does not have to follow American laws in Canada! But a Canadian does have to follow the American laws in America...

This just doesn't make sense to me. I've never heard of any trader that got busted for simply trading discs or tapes. There is too much work involved for that to happen. I've known people that sold discs and now are in fear of going to jail over it as the case has not gone to trial yet. If the MPAA was really interested in busting websites like yours I can think of a 100 of them that list not only TV Shows but also movies and movies that are still in theaters and sell like crazy. I've got buds that sell to there hearts content and never are messed with! Why they would go after yours alone is strange? I'd guess it was narked on by someone you dealt with, or there is some Canadian laws that are strict about this stuff, or the web provider got a letter about your site from the MPAA and they didn't want to deal with that so they shut you down which does happen all the time. Websites are shut down when they are notified by organizations like the MPAA. But if your being prosecuted (threatened with jail or fine) for trading VIDEO TAPES and not selling anything you would be the first person I've ever heard of that this has happened to and that just doesn't make sense.

My suggestion, start up another page on a free provider like Geocities and you'll never get screwed with again, never stop trading!!!

Agent 13 · 11-13-2003, 11:56 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by moviedude25
What company hosted your website?

His site was a Geocities site (Canada yahoo).

moviedude25 · 11-14-2003, 12:04 AM

Sorry should have said:

Quote:

My suggestion, start up another page on a free provider like Geocities (USA VERSION) and you'll never get screwed with again, never stop trading!!!

jasoncole · 11-14-2003, 01:29 AM

i tend to agree with movie dude that a bad trader may be to blame for your website getting taken down but am i correct in saying that you have never posted an experience with a bad trader on this board if thats the case i don't like what is happening here because i really enjoy being able to view old shows that i thought i wouldn't get to see again and if they are going to pick people at random and shut down their sites its going to be just like the lawsuit against kazaa

i hope you change your mind and keep trading the more good traders we can get the better!!!

take care

11-11-2003, 03:50 PM	#1
Agent 13 Member Senior Member Join Date: Feb 02, 2003 Location: Good ol' USA Posts: 1,510	MPAA Tape trading legal question... A friend of mine recently had his tape trading only website shutdown by the MPAA. It doesn't make sense that they would attack him specifically because there are lots of other sites that boldly charge fees for tapes, let alone sites such as this one. Any comments on this from some long-time traders?
	Last edited by Agent 13; 11-11-2003 at 07:35 PM.

11-11-2003, 10:54 PM	#4
bearcat Member Occasional Poster Join Date: May 26, 2002 Location: canada Posts: 62
	Last edited by bearcat; 11-21-2003 at 05:35 PM.

11-11-2003, 11:00 PM	#5
bearcat Member Occasional Poster Join Date: May 26, 2002 Location: canada Posts: 62
	Last edited by bearcat; 11-21-2003 at 05:38 PM.

11-13-2003, 10:42 PM	#12
moviedude25 Member Occasional Poster Join Date: Sep 13, 2003 Posts: 98	Say what? What company hosted your website? Since you are Canadian how is it that the MPAA has any jurisdiction over a Canadian website provider? The most the MPAA can do is send letters letting the provider know what's going on. The MPAA cannot enforce laws, they simply inform others what they see. And the MPAA is an American organization, meaning they don't have the same pull with other nations that they do in America. Such is the case in the Philippians where piracy is all over the place. The MPAA supplies local authorities with money to enforce the laws but it cannot make the police do that if they don't want to. And they cannot shut down any website hosted any where including the USA unless a court judge orders it first and that would only be for a USA website and not another countries. They can block and take over websites at will but American laws do not mean anything to other countries. A Canadian does not have to follow American laws in Canada! But a Canadian does have to follow the American laws in America... This just doesn't make sense to me. I've never heard of any trader that got busted for simply trading discs or tapes. There is too much work involved for that to happen. I've known people that sold discs and now are in fear of going to jail over it as the case has not gone to trial yet. If the MPAA was really interested in busting websites like yours I can think of a 100 of them that list not only TV Shows but also movies and movies that are still in theaters and sell like crazy. I've got buds that sell to there hearts content and never are messed with! Why they would go after yours alone is strange? I'd guess it was narked on by someone you dealt with, or there is some Canadian laws that are strict about this stuff, or the web provider got a letter about your site from the MPAA and they didn't want to deal with that so they shut you down which does happen all the time. Websites are shut down when they are notified by organizations like the MPAA. But if your being prosecuted (threatened with jail or fine) for trading VIDEO TAPES and not selling anything you would be the first person I've ever heard of that this has happened to and that just doesn't make sense. My suggestion, start up another page on a free provider like Geocities and you'll never get screwed with again, never stop trading!!!
	__________________ Trading isn't my hobby...it's my way of life

11-11-2003, 10:27 PM	#2
TJ Site Owner Administrator Forum Star Join Date: Feb 03, 2000 Location: Marietta, GA Posts: 10,718	What was your friend trading exactly? The MPAA is the Motion Picture Association of America so I can only assume he was trading first run or regular movies. Whenever somebody asks me about the legality of tape trading I refer to them to the http://www.tvofyourlife.com website, in their FAQ section they list: Is Videotape Trading Legal ? Non-profit tape collecting for one's own home-use purposes is legal, and there is nothing that says non-profit tape trading is illegal. To the best of anyone's knowledge, there has never been a supreme court decision concerning non-profit tape trading, and there are no specific laws against it. The FBI, however, does have the power to make examples to discourage tape duplication and distribution. In a phone interview (conducted 10/31/94) with officer David Grossman, Copyright Squad of the Chicago FBI states "copying videotapes is a violation only if commercial gain is made. We are only involved with major copyright infringement cases, people manufacturing and selling thousands of tapes. We don't get involved in the mom-and-pop, one or two tapes being copied. Video trading for non-profit is not a concern of ours, it's not major enough for us to get involved." He also stated that there was something that said that only seven or less copies could be made in a period of 180 days, but he wasn't sure if that applied to tape trading or not. Essentiailly, he states that the FBI is not concerned with non-profit tape trading but are when thousands of copies are being made and sold. But this wouldn't necessarily prevent them from making examples to discourage others. ----------- And for the record this is just a tape trading message board and there are many others out there, if there was ever a problem and somebody requested that it be removed - I would do so immediately.

11-12-2003, 12:03 PM	#10
dlemond Hey, I know you. Moderator Forum Veteran Join Date: Dec 03, 2001 Location: New Jersey Posts: 6,751	Closing down a website and actually getting fined or charges pressed against you are 2 completely different things. Maybe they were trying to discourage it, but as far as legality and actually getting into trouble, I highly doubt that any the matter would be pressed any further.

11-14-2003, 01:29 AM	#15
jasoncole Member Frequent Poster Join Date: Jul 10, 2003 Location: tasmania Posts: 226	i tend to agree with movie dude that a bad trader may be to blame for your website getting taken down but am i correct in saying that you have never posted an experience with a bad trader on this board if thats the case i don't like what is happening here because i really enjoy being able to view old shows that i thought i wouldn't get to see again and if they are going to pick people at random and shut down their sites its going to be just like the lawsuit against kazaa i hope you change your mind and keep trading the more good traders we can get the better!!! take care