Dr. Frasier Crane for the GOP - Sitcoms Online Message Boards

GeorgeJefferson · 10-21-2003, 07:01 PM

I saw something in Time that said Kelsey Grammer might be considering a future run for the Senate as a Republican. I'm so glad that there are successful Republicans working in Hollywood, cause sometimes it seems to be dominated by radical Communist liberals like Alec Baldwin and Sean Penn. I remember Grammer campaigned against Governor Gray Davis when he ran for reelection in 2002. Now that King Davis has been recalled, and a fellow actor is in Sacramento...maybe Hollywood will start leaning a little (just a smidge) toward the right.

It would also be something if someone from the Bush administration or maybe first lady Laura, could make an appearance on Frasier, a la the Mary Tyler Moore episode with Betty Ford. Frasier is longest running (live-action) sitcom on TV today. It is entitled to the prestige of having an important official guest star. I mean if Tony Blair can do a voice for The Simpsons.....

Brian Damage · 10-22-2003, 02:48 PM

Politics and Sitcoms don't mix for me.

barwars · 10-22-2003, 07:41 PM

Politics and life dont mix for me.

Valma · 10-22-2003, 10:16 PM

You may be forgetting "GeorgeJefferson" that, although Kelsey Grammer is one of the executive producers of the show, he isn't the only one - and some very important people on the production end of the show are probably what you would label "radical Communist liberals" (or what I would call "thoughtful, intelligent people"), so the likelihood of the conservative agenda being promoted on Frasier is slim to none, IMO. After all, it was widely reported that Kelsey really wanted a show done that somehow referenced back to the 9/11 tragedy and it never came about because, no doubt, saner voices overruled him. If he indeed was able to get whatever he wanted on the show, I think that 9/11 show would have been made, but obviously there is a consensus approach when making such decisions (not a dictatorial one) so they don't *always* reflect just K.G.'s views (or his politics). Which to me is a blessing - I agree with "Brian Damage" - party politics and sitcoms don't mix.

GeorgeJefferson · 10-23-2003, 05:38 PM

Don't go lambast Kelsey Grammer simply because he sees eye to eye with majority of the country and not the majority of the media and entertainment world. Sure, it's obvious that most people working in television today are very left-leaning. However, the idea of bringing a prominent Republican on a sitcom is not exactly absurd.

Look at Betty Ford on The MTM Show or Nancy Reagan on Diff'rent Strokes. Do you think most people involved with the productions of those shows were Ford and Reagan supporters?
All I was saying was it would be interesting to see someone from the Bush administration or some other distinguished conservative make an appearance on this show, which has always seemed to be nonpartisan. Even a liberal show like Friends had Republican actors Tom Selleck, Bruce Willis, and even Charlton Heston make appearances. After all, artistocrats like Frasier and Niles, and a former cop like Martin usually don't tend to be liberals.

As for Kelsey having an idea about a show with a tie to 9/11, don't be so quick to criticize him for that. If you recall, "Frasier" creator/producer David Angell was on board one of the planes that went into the towers, and I'm sure any idea related to 9/11 would be in the form of a tribute to people like him. I'm not quite sure how much comedy could come from an episode like that, but at least Kelsey had honorable intentions in bringing it up.

Valma · 10-23-2003, 11:37 PM

Oh come on! Get off your high-horse about me "lambasting" anyone or calling anyone's ideas "absurd" (those are entirely *your* terms - *not* mine!). I was just saying that I disagreed with him and that it isn't a good idea as far as I am concerned to mix party politics with a sitcom. I don't think it is a good idea for any politicians (liberal or conservative) to be guest staring on T.V. shows (they aren't trained actors and usually detract from the quality of the show). You seemed to be saying in your original post that Kelsey should be commended if he pushes for and gets more conservative icons on the show (because of his personal politics). I really don't care if Friends or Different Strokes or what ever show (liberal or conservative) did - what I care about is what happens on Frasier (and only that) and I think whatever Kelsey's personal politics are, the reason that the show has remained "non-partisan" about guesting political figures is that they don't rule by dictation by one person - they probably decide things by concensus (which makes sense) and others must have decided that there shouldn't be partisan politics practised on Frasier. I agree entirely with that idea!

As far as 9/11 goes - I am *not* being "quick" to criticize him - I have thought long and hard about it and still agree with DHP and others associated with the show, that Frasier isn't the correct venue for that sort of theme. The show *did* pay tribute with a written statement at the end of one programme and statements in the press at the time of the tragedy (as well as holding a memorial service to honour them where many friends and family spoke about their affections for David Angell and his wife). I know Kelsey had good intentions, but they were channeled towards something that wasn't really appropriate (IMO) and I still think that the decision made not to show what he wanted was the correct one. Those people who made that decision were also affected (just as much as Kelsey) by David A.'s death and had just as much emotional involvement in the tragic loss of life that happened that day and yet chose to express their loss in different ways (and ones that I agreed with more).

BTW - Niles' and Frasier's politics were *clearly* defined in the episode "The Candidate" - they were shown to be die-hard liberals (no doubt they are much like some of those "radical Communist liberals" you detest so much ;-P). Martin was revealed to be very much a conservative. It's all in the transcripts, if you care to check on the Frasier Files. :-))

GeorgeJefferson · 10-24-2003, 02:40 AM

OK, let's just agree to disagree.

Some of us think politics and sitcoms don't go well together. Others of us think an occassional appearance by someone recognizable can be an interesting blend. Especially after a dull season, like Frasier experienced last year.

I haven't seen "The Candidate" episode, so I guess you've got me there with my original assumption about them being conservative since they are snobby aristocrats. But I guess liberals like the Kennedys are the same way.

Thank you for your input, "Valma". I would like to know what others think about possible future cameos by politicians on the show.

Valma · 10-24-2003, 07:06 AM

Of course we can agree to disagree - that's what these boards are about - everyone getting a chance to have their say! :-))

BTW - it's not just politicians I have an aversion to for guest appearances - it's all non-acting types! :-)

Seeing Bill Gates' "performance" (using that in the *broadest* of terms!;-) ) in the 200th episode left a bit of a hankering in me to take a shower - it was soooo obvious that they were obliged to *let* him come on the show to advertise his product! For my money John Glenn's appearance was the best of the lot, but I really don't like non-actors coming on the show. Leave it up to the professionals and let's see quality - not self-promotion by the powerful or influential!! :-))

GeorgeJefferson · 10-24-2003, 03:43 PM

I don't think Bill Gates' appearance was meant to be a "performance" as it was a ratings-grabber cameo, just because of the show taking place in his hometown of Seattle. It was funny just to see him there, and it was smart not to do an entire episode with him as the guest star.

Famous people who aren't actors are usually effective in getting laughs if they only appear briefly and say little to nothing, like Walter Cronkite on The MTM Show. Famous actors making guest appearances can often carry an episode with the rest of the cast as Michael Douglas did with Will & Grace and as various actors like Adam Arkin and Anthony LaPaglia have done with their roles on Frasier.

Valma · 10-24-2003, 04:58 PM

Again we have to agree to disagree. :-)

It was not funny to see him there for me. It was painful.

I would rather see a good character actor any day than a non-actor (of any profession) inserted into a story just because that person if famous (for whatever reason). The non-actor usually stick out like a sore thumb and everything seems awkward, even if they are on screen for a short time.

Famous actors are another overused tactic that some programmes employ for ratings - stunt casting. Usually it only counts if that person hasn't been a regular on a fairly recent television series or is a mega-star in live theatre or other form of the performing arts - so Michael Douglas would be one such star (even though he did do "The Streets of S.F." it was sooooo long ago that most viewers wouldn't have watched it when it originally aired), Madonna, Julia Roberts, Brad Pitt etc. would be others.

But I wouldn't classify Adam Arkin or Anthony LaPaglia in the same group - both of them have starred on more recent shows and although they are familiar to television and movie goers, they aren't what I would classify as being in the same league of stardom as a Michael Douglas or Brad Pitt.

Although Frasier goes for well enough known actors, they don't go in for "stunt casting". David Lee confirmed this on the Frasier newsgroup stating that often the network has applied a great deal of pressure, trying to get the producers to go for bigger names to pull more casual viewers in, but they have purposely refused to do this. They are very selective about the guest actors they choose and I think that attention to quality shows. They also have a penchant for choosing actors who have a heavy background in live theatre.

GeorgeJefferson · 10-24-2003, 05:15 PM

Well, what about when they have Frasier's old buddies from Cheers come on with guest spots. I know they're reprising their roles from a previous show and they are, in most cases, enjoyable to watch again, but wouldn't you consider that stunt casting? I mean, NBC knows more people are going to tune in if they have the opportunity to see Ted Danson as Sam Malone again after all these years. Granted, Lilith has basically become a recurring character because she shows up at least once nearly every season.

I would have to say the ones with Lilith, and the individual episodes with Diane, Sam, and Woody were pretty good. But that Cheers "reunion" episode, that they hyped two years, with Norm, Carla, and Cliff, seemed forced for NBC's 75th Anniversary specials. Would you say that Frasier, at its lowest, has stooped to stunt casting, because of an incident like that? That certainly wasn't the quality writing viewers have grown accustomed to seeing on this show.

Valma · 10-24-2003, 11:08 PM

The Cheers reunion show *was* totally forced on Frasier by the network so I don't count that as the writers and producers fault - I blame *intense* pressure from the network in that unique situation (and I feel that if the producers of Frasier had had their way it probably wouldn't have ever been made). They did the best they could with what they were ordered to do.

As for the stunt aspect of the occasional guest appearances from Cheers actors - I would say no, I don't classify it the same as if some really big *mega-star* is "parachuted" into an episode (as the ex-girl friend, or mother or ex-whatever) with no previous
"history" or reference points to the regular character's timelines. The Cheers characters have a place in Frasier history and fit nicely into the occasional story line. *All* guest appearances are in some way a "gimmick", to bring something a little different into the regular cast lineup (that's why it is called a *guest* appearance), but what I am talking about is inappropriate casting done *just* to get viewers to tune in. Having Madonna drop by for coffee at Nervosa or have Elizabeth Taylor become Daphne's real mother - that is the type of casting that qualifys as "stunt casting" to me (and it is done a lot on many other shows).

dr frasier crane · 10-29-2003, 07:47 PM

As a conservative Republican, I think this is great! Kelsey Grammer seems to be a very intelligent man. I think he would make a great senator. It is nice to see some conservatives in Hollywood.

GeorgeJefferson · 10-29-2003, 08:46 PM

Well said, Dr. Crane.

Valma · 11-02-2003, 09:07 AM

Dr. Frasier Crane wrote:
"As a conservative Republican, I think this is great! Kelsey Grammer seems to be a very intelligent man. I think he would make a great senator. It is nice to see some conservatives in Hollywood."

Kelsey may well make a good senator if he indeed decides to take his life in that particular direction in the future, but I think you should realise that there are *plenty* enough of conservatives in Hollywood. He isn't alone by any means, nor are conservative thinking people an endangered species in "Tinsel Town". ;-)

10-21-2003, 07:01 PM	#1
GeorgeJefferson Pop Culture GOP Frequent Poster Join Date: Oct 20, 2003 Location: FRESNO Posts: 367	Dr. Frasier Crane for the GOP I saw something in Time that said Kelsey Grammer might be considering a future run for the Senate as a Republican. I'm so glad that there are successful Republicans working in Hollywood, cause sometimes it seems to be dominated by radical Communist liberals like Alec Baldwin and Sean Penn. I remember Grammer campaigned against Governor Gray Davis when he ran for reelection in 2002. Now that King Davis has been recalled, and a fellow actor is in Sacramento...maybe Hollywood will start leaning a little (just a smidge) toward the right. It would also be something if someone from the Bush administration or maybe first lady Laura, could make an appearance on Frasier, a la the Mary Tyler Moore episode with Betty Ford. Frasier is longest running (live-action) sitcom on TV today. It is entitled to the prestige of having an important official guest star. I mean if Tony Blair can do a voice for The Simpsons.....

10-29-2003, 07:47 PM	#13
dr frasier crane Imagine Frequent Poster Join Date: Aug 26, 2003 Location: Illinois Posts: 489	As a conservative Republican, I think this is great! Kelsey Grammer seems to be a very intelligent man. I think he would make a great senator. It is nice to see some conservatives in Hollywood.
	__________________ "I used to exercise, but the ice kept falling out of my glass." - David Lee Roth

10-22-2003, 02:48 PM	#2
Brian Damage I'm Rich Bitch Forum Icon Join Date: Feb 03, 2002 Location: What Ain't No Country I Ever Heard Of...They Speak English in What? Posts: 63,107	Politics and Sitcoms don't mix for me.

10-22-2003, 07:41 PM	#3
barwars .. Forum Star Join Date: May 04, 2002 Posts: 13,273	Politics and life dont mix for me.

10-22-2003, 10:16 PM	#4
Valma Member Occasional Poster Join Date: Nov 09, 2002 Posts: 95	You may be forgetting "GeorgeJefferson" that, although Kelsey Grammer is one of the executive producers of the show, he isn't the only one - and some very important people on the production end of the show are probably what you would label "radical Communist liberals" (or what I would call "thoughtful, intelligent people"), so the likelihood of the conservative agenda being promoted on Frasier is slim to none, IMO. After all, it was widely reported that Kelsey really wanted a show done that somehow referenced back to the 9/11 tragedy and it never came about because, no doubt, saner voices overruled him. If he indeed was able to get whatever he wanted on the show, I think that 9/11 show would have been made, but obviously there is a consensus approach when making such decisions (not a dictatorial one) so they don't always reflect just K.G.'s views (or his politics). Which to me is a blessing - I agree with "Brian Damage" - party politics and sitcoms don't mix.

10-23-2003, 05:38 PM	#5
GeorgeJefferson Pop Culture GOP Frequent Poster Join Date: Oct 20, 2003 Location: FRESNO Posts: 367	Don't go lambast Kelsey Grammer simply because he sees eye to eye with majority of the country and not the majority of the media and entertainment world. Sure, it's obvious that most people working in television today are very left-leaning. However, the idea of bringing a prominent Republican on a sitcom is not exactly absurd. Look at Betty Ford on The MTM Show or Nancy Reagan on Diff'rent Strokes. Do you think most people involved with the productions of those shows were Ford and Reagan supporters? All I was saying was it would be interesting to see someone from the Bush administration or some other distinguished conservative make an appearance on this show, which has always seemed to be nonpartisan. Even a liberal show like Friends had Republican actors Tom Selleck, Bruce Willis, and even Charlton Heston make appearances. After all, artistocrats like Frasier and Niles, and a former cop like Martin usually don't tend to be liberals. As for Kelsey having an idea about a show with a tie to 9/11, don't be so quick to criticize him for that. If you recall, "Frasier" creator/producer David Angell was on board one of the planes that went into the towers, and I'm sure any idea related to 9/11 would be in the form of a tribute to people like him. I'm not quite sure how much comedy could come from an episode like that, but at least Kelsey had honorable intentions in bringing it up.

10-23-2003, 11:37 PM	#6
Valma Member Occasional Poster Join Date: Nov 09, 2002 Posts: 95	Oh come on! Get off your high-horse about me "lambasting" anyone or calling anyone's ideas "absurd" (those are entirely your terms - not mine!). I was just saying that I disagreed with him and that it isn't a good idea as far as I am concerned to mix party politics with a sitcom. I don't think it is a good idea for any politicians (liberal or conservative) to be guest staring on T.V. shows (they aren't trained actors and usually detract from the quality of the show). You seemed to be saying in your original post that Kelsey should be commended if he pushes for and gets more conservative icons on the show (because of his personal politics). I really don't care if Friends or Different Strokes or what ever show (liberal or conservative) did - what I care about is what happens on Frasier (and only that) and I think whatever Kelsey's personal politics are, the reason that the show has remained "non-partisan" about guesting political figures is that they don't rule by dictation by one person - they probably decide things by concensus (which makes sense) and others must have decided that there shouldn't be partisan politics practised on Frasier. I agree entirely with that idea! As far as 9/11 goes - I am not being "quick" to criticize him - I have thought long and hard about it and still agree with DHP and others associated with the show, that Frasier isn't the correct venue for that sort of theme. The show did pay tribute with a written statement at the end of one programme and statements in the press at the time of the tragedy (as well as holding a memorial service to honour them where many friends and family spoke about their affections for David Angell and his wife). I know Kelsey had good intentions, but they were channeled towards something that wasn't really appropriate (IMO) and I still think that the decision made not to show what he wanted was the correct one. Those people who made that decision were also affected (just as much as Kelsey) by David A.'s death and had just as much emotional involvement in the tragic loss of life that happened that day and yet chose to express their loss in different ways (and ones that I agreed with more). BTW - Niles' and Frasier's politics were clearly defined in the episode "The Candidate" - they were shown to be die-hard liberals (no doubt they are much like some of those "radical Communist liberals" you detest so much ;-P). Martin was revealed to be very much a conservative. It's all in the transcripts, if you care to check on the Frasier Files. :-))

10-24-2003, 02:40 AM	#7
GeorgeJefferson Pop Culture GOP Frequent Poster Join Date: Oct 20, 2003 Location: FRESNO Posts: 367	OK, let's just agree to disagree. Some of us think politics and sitcoms don't go well together. Others of us think an occassional appearance by someone recognizable can be an interesting blend. Especially after a dull season, like Frasier experienced last year. I haven't seen "The Candidate" episode, so I guess you've got me there with my original assumption about them being conservative since they are snobby aristocrats. But I guess liberals like the Kennedys are the same way. Thank you for your input, "Valma". I would like to know what others think about possible future cameos by politicians on the show.

10-24-2003, 07:06 AM	#8
Valma Member Occasional Poster Join Date: Nov 09, 2002 Posts: 95	Of course we can agree to disagree - that's what these boards are about - everyone getting a chance to have their say! :-)) BTW - it's not just politicians I have an aversion to for guest appearances - it's all non-acting types! :-) Seeing Bill Gates' "performance" (using that in the broadest of terms!;-) ) in the 200th episode left a bit of a hankering in me to take a shower - it was soooo obvious that they were obliged to let him come on the show to advertise his product! For my money John Glenn's appearance was the best of the lot, but I really don't like non-actors coming on the show. Leave it up to the professionals and let's see quality - not self-promotion by the powerful or influential!! :-))

10-24-2003, 03:43 PM	#9
GeorgeJefferson Pop Culture GOP Frequent Poster Join Date: Oct 20, 2003 Location: FRESNO Posts: 367	I don't think Bill Gates' appearance was meant to be a "performance" as it was a ratings-grabber cameo, just because of the show taking place in his hometown of Seattle. It was funny just to see him there, and it was smart not to do an entire episode with him as the guest star. Famous people who aren't actors are usually effective in getting laughs if they only appear briefly and say little to nothing, like Walter Cronkite on The MTM Show. Famous actors making guest appearances can often carry an episode with the rest of the cast as Michael Douglas did with Will & Grace and as various actors like Adam Arkin and Anthony LaPaglia have done with their roles on Frasier.

10-24-2003, 04:58 PM	#10
Valma Member Occasional Poster Join Date: Nov 09, 2002 Posts: 95	Again we have to agree to disagree. :-) It was not funny to see him there for me. It was painful. I would rather see a good character actor any day than a non-actor (of any profession) inserted into a story just because that person if famous (for whatever reason). The non-actor usually stick out like a sore thumb and everything seems awkward, even if they are on screen for a short time. Famous actors are another overused tactic that some programmes employ for ratings - stunt casting. Usually it only counts if that person hasn't been a regular on a fairly recent television series or is a mega-star in live theatre or other form of the performing arts - so Michael Douglas would be one such star (even though he did do "The Streets of S.F." it was sooooo long ago that most viewers wouldn't have watched it when it originally aired), Madonna, Julia Roberts, Brad Pitt etc. would be others. But I wouldn't classify Adam Arkin or Anthony LaPaglia in the same group - both of them have starred on more recent shows and although they are familiar to television and movie goers, they aren't what I would classify as being in the same league of stardom as a Michael Douglas or Brad Pitt. Although Frasier goes for well enough known actors, they don't go in for "stunt casting". David Lee confirmed this on the Frasier newsgroup stating that often the network has applied a great deal of pressure, trying to get the producers to go for bigger names to pull more casual viewers in, but they have purposely refused to do this. They are very selective about the guest actors they choose and I think that attention to quality shows. They also have a penchant for choosing actors who have a heavy background in live theatre.

10-24-2003, 05:15 PM	#11
GeorgeJefferson Pop Culture GOP Frequent Poster Join Date: Oct 20, 2003 Location: FRESNO Posts: 367	Well, what about when they have Frasier's old buddies from Cheers come on with guest spots. I know they're reprising their roles from a previous show and they are, in most cases, enjoyable to watch again, but wouldn't you consider that stunt casting? I mean, NBC knows more people are going to tune in if they have the opportunity to see Ted Danson as Sam Malone again after all these years. Granted, Lilith has basically become a recurring character because she shows up at least once nearly every season. I would have to say the ones with Lilith, and the individual episodes with Diane, Sam, and Woody were pretty good. But that Cheers "reunion" episode, that they hyped two years, with Norm, Carla, and Cliff, seemed forced for NBC's 75th Anniversary specials. Would you say that Frasier, at its lowest, has stooped to stunt casting, because of an incident like that? That certainly wasn't the quality writing viewers have grown accustomed to seeing on this show.

10-24-2003, 11:08 PM	#12
Valma Member Occasional Poster Join Date: Nov 09, 2002 Posts: 95	The Cheers reunion show was totally forced on Frasier by the network so I don't count that as the writers and producers fault - I blame intense pressure from the network in that unique situation (and I feel that if the producers of Frasier had had their way it probably wouldn't have ever been made). They did the best they could with what they were ordered to do. As for the stunt aspect of the occasional guest appearances from Cheers actors - I would say no, I don't classify it the same as if some really big mega-star is "parachuted" into an episode (as the ex-girl friend, or mother or ex-whatever) with no previous "history" or reference points to the regular character's timelines. The Cheers characters have a place in Frasier history and fit nicely into the occasional story line. All guest appearances are in some way a "gimmick", to bring something a little different into the regular cast lineup (that's why it is called a guest appearance), but what I am talking about is inappropriate casting done just to get viewers to tune in. Having Madonna drop by for coffee at Nervosa or have Elizabeth Taylor become Daphne's real mother - that is the type of casting that qualifys as "stunt casting" to me (and it is done a lot on many other shows).

10-29-2003, 08:46 PM	#14
GeorgeJefferson Pop Culture GOP Frequent Poster Join Date: Oct 20, 2003 Location: FRESNO Posts: 367	Well said, Dr. Crane.

11-02-2003, 09:07 AM	#15
Valma Member Occasional Poster Join Date: Nov 09, 2002 Posts: 95	Dr. Frasier Crane wrote: "As a conservative Republican, I think this is great! Kelsey Grammer seems to be a very intelligent man. I think he would make a great senator. It is nice to see some conservatives in Hollywood." Kelsey may well make a good senator if he indeed decides to take his life in that particular direction in the future, but I think you should realise that there are plenty enough of conservatives in Hollywood. He isn't alone by any means, nor are conservative thinking people an endangered species in "Tinsel Town". ;-)

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