MASH jumped the shark!!!! - Sitcoms Online Message Boards

ficlopri · 10-15-2003, 06:14 PM

Way over 700 votes (so far) have claimed MASH got worse as it went along. There are under 300 votes (so far) saying it got better or even stayed as good. Alan Alda's excessive moralizing was listed as one of the worst things about the later BJ/Charles MASH eps as oppsosed to the early Trapper/Henry ones. Check it out at MASH at jumptheshark.com.

Mickey · 10-20-2003, 08:14 AM

Jump The Shark annoys me for excessive negativity, but there are good points made there sometimes. M*A*S*H* was always watchable, but I'm not bothering with any of the DVDs post S3. It was never as good, IMHO, after Henry and Trapper left. I didn't warm to Potter at all, and BJ was never as funny as Trap. Later on losing Radar didn't matter so much, as his relationship with Potter wasn't so good as it had been with Henry, and losing Radar meant we got more of Father Mulcahy, which was good - but replacing Frank really was the nail in the show's coffin. Meaning no disresepct to David Ogden Stiers, naturally, but nobody could replace Frank. After that Hotlips got boring, Klinger got too ordinary, and Hawkeye got increasingly self-righteous. It's a shame, but everything changes. There were always stand-out episodes though of course.

ficlopri · 10-20-2003, 03:23 PM

I agree with you on all MASH points you stated except Hary Morgan was very good as Potter. But Stevenson was a little better as Blake.

As for Jump the Shark it makes good ponts on almost every show it reviews.

Mickey · 10-21-2003, 05:19 AM

Harry Morgan was very good as Potter, no denying that. I just didn't take to the character.

hoosierelvisfan · 10-21-2003, 12:23 PM

. . . MASH got increasing self-righteous and increasingly "preachy" as the show went on. It became less and less a comedy and more and more an "anti-war" moral play. The early shows were the best. And the cast changes annoy me: Col. Blake was much better than Col. Potter. Trapper was MUCH better than BJ. Frank, IMHO, really helped to make this show. Although nothing against Charles, Frank helped to make the show much funnier.

Signed,
Respectfully,
Dutch

ficlopri · 10-21-2003, 02:54 PM

fine Mickey but you didn't outright say Morgan was a very good actor or anything like that. So I had no real way of way knowing you realised that from the beginning.

Mickey · 10-21-2003, 04:34 PM

Yes, I didn't comment much on him in my original post. Harry Morgan did so much, and more than proved his worth in other productions. I don't know why I didn't like the character much. Too stiff and conventional perhaps, especially compared to Henry. That's a similiar complaint I'd make against BJ as compared to Trapper, and Charles as compared to Frank. It's never easy to come into a show and take over from somebody else, and I suppose they all did well enough, considering. It's just that, IMHO, BJ was never half as funny as Trapper, and the chemistry with Hawkeye wasn't so good. Potter wasn't as endearing as Henry, and Charles, poor fellow, just wasn't Frank. How could anybody be as good as Frank?! It was so sad when Larry Linville died a few years ago. Good to see him guesting on that episode of Diagnosis Murder though.

So is there anybody out there who prefers the later cast?

hoosierelvisfan · 10-22-2003, 08:49 AM

Quote:

So is there anybody out there who prefers the later cast?

Well, I don't. Personally, for me, the show was basically ruined in the later seasons because instead of trying to be a comedy, it tried to be a series that showed how horrible war is. That's great and everything but if I want to watch something that shows how bad war is, I'll turn on a documentary on the subject, not a comedy. For me, my least fave character was "BJ." He is the most negative out of everyone on the show. Personally, I think they tried to switch the format of the show from strictly comedy to a sort-of quasi drama.

Regarding the real life actors who played Hawkeye and BJ, they really drive me crazy with all their political stuff they try to promote. Personally, I wish that they would just keep their political views to themselves. People are certainly free to hold whatever political views that they want, but these actors/singers that use their celebrity status to shove political causes down the throat of the public just drive me crazy. I used to love Barbara Streisand years ago and had lots of albums from her, but she got to the point where she couldn't do anything without turning it into a political platform. At that point, I just could not bear watching her anymore because, as a result, now I equate Barbara Streisand with her political views. The same is true to a certain degree with Alan Alda and Mike Farrell. Why don't these celebrities just entertain us and keep their political opinions to themselves like it used to be?

Signed,
Respectfully,
Dutch

Mickey · 10-22-2003, 10:14 AM

"Keep their political opinions to themselves like it used to be?
"?! Celebrities have never done that. Look at the number of Holylwood stars standing behind Martin Luther King when he made some of his speeches, or JFK. Going back even further than that, in the early days of Hollywood they'd stand up for certain issues. They have a voice, and can speak on subjects, and get things done, where ordinary people can't.

I've never heard Alan Alda or Mike Farrell speak on political issues. Wouldn't care if I did. I have huge respect for Martin Sheen and the work he does in that arena. I don't like what Mike Farrell brought to M*A*S*H though!

hoosierelvisfan · 10-22-2003, 10:53 AM

Certainly, there have always been some celebrities who have voiced their opinions on things through the years. For example, Sinatra did a lot to help get JFK elected. And, yes, SOME stars did appear with MLK (e.g., Harry Belafonte and Sammy Davis, Jr.) but I am talking about even earlier than that when the movie stars pretty much kept their opinions to themselves because they wanted to protect their images and not offend people one way or another. Certainly, everyone is entitled to their own opinion. What offends me, though, is the thought that certain celebrities think they are somehow more entitled or more enlightened to give their opinions about issues just because they are celebrities. You've never heard Alan Alda or Mike Farrell (espec. Mike Farrell!!!!) give their opinion on political issues??????? Wow!!!! where do YOU live?!?!? LOL! Just kidding!!! Ed Asner is another one that gets all caught up in these political causes and seems to think he is smarter and more qualified simply because he is a celebrity. He's big on defending the cop-killer from Philadelphia. He should just keep his big trap closed and keep his opinion to himself. Listen, I am not denying that people have a right to voice their opinion, but what I'm suggesting is that just because you have a right to voice your opinion doesn't mean that you HAVE to voice your opinion. Elvis Presley was a man of strong convictions but he kept his opinions on issues seperate in his private life. He felt that he shouldn't influence people because he was a celebrity. Obviously, the "Mike Farrel's" and "Ed Asner's" of today believe just the opposite. They believe that they MUST use their celebritiy status to force us to listen to political issues.

Signed,
Respectfully,
Dutch

ficlopri · 10-23-2003, 02:33 PM

Mike Farrel was on the now defunct Politically Incorrect series bragging there was no proof that the WTC bombing on 9-11-2001 was caused by the Al Quida (sp?).

Mickey · 10-23-2003, 05:09 PM

Technically there isn't. But I think we need a Michael Moore thread for that kind of chat or we'll all end up offending each other.

DickSolomonFan · 11-02-2003, 09:17 PM

And I thought I was the only one who got sick of Hawkeye's anti-war sermons. He was a mite hypocrital too, because he was always ready to punch out the lights of anyone he had a beef with. I still liked him most of the time though. He was great when he was just being funny. I loved his Groucho routine.

On jumping the shark, I still liked the show up to the end, but it was less funny after Klinger quit wearing dresses. And Frank was funnier than Winchester, although Charles did have his moments. Blake and Potter were both okay. I liked Potter a little better, but he got on my nerves too sometimes, blowing his top for no reason. I've always liked Harry Morgan though, ever since he played Pete Porter on December Bride (an old
fifties show).

ficlopri · 11-03-2003, 11:33 PM

Yeah, in the army film Yankee Doodle Doctor (I think that was it) Hawk was impersonating Groucho Marx throughout most of it. Wish he coulda imitated Groucho more often. he was so good at it.

About Potter. If he yelled quite a bit well he was the army.

DickSolomonFan · 11-04-2003, 02:33 AM

Yes, and he did usually cool down pretty quickly and apologize for it. Like I say, I still liked him.

10-15-2003, 06:14 PM	#1
ficlopri Member Forum Regular Join Date: Jun 27, 2001 Location: Methuen, Ma.USA Posts: 659	MASH jumped the shark!!!! Way over 700 votes (so far) have claimed MASH got worse as it went along. There are under 300 votes (so far) saying it got better or even stayed as good. Alan Alda's excessive moralizing was listed as one of the worst things about the later BJ/Charles MASH eps as oppsosed to the early Trapper/Henry ones. Check it out at MASH at jumptheshark.com.

10-21-2003, 12:23 PM	#5
hoosierelvisfan Member Frequent Poster Join Date: Sep 16, 2003 Location: I do not like TV Land any longer!!!!! Posts: 467	I agree wholeheartedly . . . . . . . MASH got increasing self-righteous and increasingly "preachy" as the show went on. It became less and less a comedy and more and more an "anti-war" moral play. The early shows were the best. And the cast changes annoy me: Col. Blake was much better than Col. Potter. Trapper was MUCH better than BJ. Frank, IMHO, really helped to make this show. Although nothing against Charles, Frank helped to make the show much funnier. Signed, Respectfully, Dutch

10-22-2003, 10:53 AM	#10
hoosierelvisfan Member Frequent Poster Join Date: Sep 16, 2003 Location: I do not like TV Land any longer!!!!! Posts: 467	Don't think it's nearly widespread as you think . . . Certainly, there have always been some celebrities who have voiced their opinions on things through the years. For example, Sinatra did a lot to help get JFK elected. And, yes, SOME stars did appear with MLK (e.g., Harry Belafonte and Sammy Davis, Jr.) but I am talking about even earlier than that when the movie stars pretty much kept their opinions to themselves because they wanted to protect their images and not offend people one way or another. Certainly, everyone is entitled to their own opinion. What offends me, though, is the thought that certain celebrities think they are somehow more entitled or more enlightened to give their opinions about issues just because they are celebrities. You've never heard Alan Alda or Mike Farrell (espec. Mike Farrell!!!!) give their opinion on political issues??????? Wow!!!! where do YOU live?!?!? LOL! Just kidding!!! Ed Asner is another one that gets all caught up in these political causes and seems to think he is smarter and more qualified simply because he is a celebrity. He's big on defending the cop-killer from Philadelphia. He should just keep his big trap closed and keep his opinion to himself. Listen, I am not denying that people have a right to voice their opinion, but what I'm suggesting is that just because you have a right to voice your opinion doesn't mean that you HAVE to voice your opinion. Elvis Presley was a man of strong convictions but he kept his opinions on issues seperate in his private life. He felt that he shouldn't influence people because he was a celebrity. Obviously, the "Mike Farrel's" and "Ed Asner's" of today believe just the opposite. They believe that they MUST use their celebritiy status to force us to listen to political issues. Signed, Respectfully, Dutch

11-02-2003, 09:17 PM	#13
DickSolomonFan Member Occasional Poster Join Date: Mar 09, 2003 Posts: 42	And I thought I was the only one who got sick of Hawkeye's anti-war sermons. He was a mite hypocrital too, because he was always ready to punch out the lights of anyone he had a beef with. I still liked him most of the time though. He was great when he was just being funny. I loved his Groucho routine. On jumping the shark, I still liked the show up to the end, but it was less funny after Klinger quit wearing dresses. And Frank was funnier than Winchester, although Charles did have his moments. Blake and Potter were both okay. I liked Potter a little better, but he got on my nerves too sometimes, blowing his top for no reason. I've always liked Harry Morgan though, ever since he played Pete Porter on December Bride (an old fifties show).
	Last edited by DickSolomonFan; 11-03-2003 at 02:40 AM.

10-20-2003, 08:14 AM	#2
Mickey Ranger Forum Regular Join Date: Oct 12, 2002 Location: The UK, and still finding Desi funnier than Lucy Posts: 960	Jump The Shark annoys me for excessive negativity, but there are good points made there sometimes. MASH was always watchable, but I'm not bothering with any of the DVDs post S3. It was never as good, IMHO, after Henry and Trapper left. I didn't warm to Potter at all, and BJ was never as funny as Trap. Later on losing Radar didn't matter so much, as his relationship with Potter wasn't so good as it had been with Henry, and losing Radar meant we got more of Father Mulcahy, which was good - but replacing Frank really was the nail in the show's coffin. Meaning no disresepct to David Ogden Stiers, naturally, but nobody could replace Frank. After that Hotlips got boring, Klinger got too ordinary, and Hawkeye got increasingly self-righteous. It's a shame, but everything changes. There were always stand-out episodes though of course.

10-20-2003, 03:23 PM	#3
ficlopri Member Forum Regular Join Date: Jun 27, 2001 Location: Methuen, Ma.USA Posts: 659	I agree with you on all MASH points you stated except Hary Morgan was very good as Potter. But Stevenson was a little better as Blake. As for Jump the Shark it makes good ponts on almost every show it reviews.

10-21-2003, 05:19 AM	#4
Mickey Ranger Forum Regular Join Date: Oct 12, 2002 Location: The UK, and still finding Desi funnier than Lucy Posts: 960	Harry Morgan was very good as Potter, no denying that. I just didn't take to the character.

10-21-2003, 02:54 PM	#6
ficlopri Member Forum Regular Join Date: Jun 27, 2001 Location: Methuen, Ma.USA Posts: 659	fine Mickey but you didn't outright say Morgan was a very good actor or anything like that. So I had no real way of way knowing you realised that from the beginning.

10-21-2003, 04:34 PM	#7
Mickey Ranger Forum Regular Join Date: Oct 12, 2002 Location: The UK, and still finding Desi funnier than Lucy Posts: 960	Yes, I didn't comment much on him in my original post. Harry Morgan did so much, and more than proved his worth in other productions. I don't know why I didn't like the character much. Too stiff and conventional perhaps, especially compared to Henry. That's a similiar complaint I'd make against BJ as compared to Trapper, and Charles as compared to Frank. It's never easy to come into a show and take over from somebody else, and I suppose they all did well enough, considering. It's just that, IMHO, BJ was never half as funny as Trapper, and the chemistry with Hawkeye wasn't so good. Potter wasn't as endearing as Henry, and Charles, poor fellow, just wasn't Frank. How could anybody be as good as Frank?! It was so sad when Larry Linville died a few years ago. Good to see him guesting on that episode of Diagnosis Murder though. So is there anybody out there who prefers the later cast?

10-22-2003, 10:14 AM	#9
Mickey Ranger Forum Regular Join Date: Oct 12, 2002 Location: The UK, and still finding Desi funnier than Lucy Posts: 960	"Keep their political opinions to themselves like it used to be? "?! Celebrities have never done that. Look at the number of Holylwood stars standing behind Martin Luther King when he made some of his speeches, or JFK. Going back even further than that, in the early days of Hollywood they'd stand up for certain issues. They have a voice, and can speak on subjects, and get things done, where ordinary people can't. I've never heard Alan Alda or Mike Farrell speak on political issues. Wouldn't care if I did. I have huge respect for Martin Sheen and the work he does in that arena. I don't like what Mike Farrell brought to MAS*H though!

10-23-2003, 02:33 PM	#11
ficlopri Member Forum Regular Join Date: Jun 27, 2001 Location: Methuen, Ma.USA Posts: 659	Mike Farrel was on the now defunct Politically Incorrect series bragging there was no proof that the WTC bombing on 9-11-2001 was caused by the Al Quida (sp?).

10-23-2003, 05:09 PM	#12
Mickey Ranger Forum Regular Join Date: Oct 12, 2002 Location: The UK, and still finding Desi funnier than Lucy Posts: 960	Technically there isn't. But I think we need a Michael Moore thread for that kind of chat or we'll all end up offending each other.

11-03-2003, 11:33 PM	#14
ficlopri Member Forum Regular Join Date: Jun 27, 2001 Location: Methuen, Ma.USA Posts: 659	Yeah, in the army film Yankee Doodle Doctor (I think that was it) Hawk was impersonating Groucho Marx throughout most of it. Wish he coulda imitated Groucho more often. he was so good at it. About Potter. If he yelled quite a bit well he was the army.

11-04-2003, 02:33 AM	#15
DickSolomonFan Member Occasional Poster Join Date: Mar 09, 2003 Posts: 42	Yes, and he did usually cool down pretty quickly and apologize for it. Like I say, I still liked him.