Jerry Mathers on Larry King

[TheHappyBurgerMeister]

Jerry Mathers is on Larry King RIGHT NOW (9:40 pm EASTERN time) so turn on the TV- if anyone sees this now. He's talking about his diabetes since Della Reese is on too and she announced she has diabetes. My mom called me into the living room and I was suprised to see him on TV!!

[Brian]

I'm watching right now. I think I missed a lot of it, though.

[GidgetCleaver]

It comes on again through the night. I usually watch it at midnight (eastern time).

[Just Popped In]

Yea, I saw him on CNN and was kind of surprised as I only expected to see Della Reese...

[AKA]

Here's a transcript:

KING: Welcome back to LARRY KING LIVE. Our subject tonight is diabetes. With us is Della Reese, speaking for the first time about having it. By the way, Della Reese, you can call 866 Info Diabetes for the Della Diabetes Information Center. 866-Info Diabetes.

Dr. Andrew Weil is in Tucson, Arizona. The "New York Times" best-selling author. He, of course, is associated with the University of Arizona. And is a graduate of Harvard.

Here in L.A., the famous Jerry Mathers, best known star of the best TV sitcom ever "Leave It To Beaver". He's got a Web site, too, www.jerrymathers.tv. He has type II diabetes.

One of my favorites, Wilford Brimley, actor, who also has type II diabetes. He's associated with Liberty Medical. You've seen the commercials, I'm sure. The leading supplier in home delivery of specialty medical supplies including diabetes testing kits.

And in Columbus, Ohio is John Ratzenberger, there's that famous face. John, best known for his role as the know-it-all Cliff Claven on "Cheers." His teenage son has type one diabetes. He's an activist for diabetes awareness and research. He helped build the Web site www.childrenwithdiabetes.com. Jerry, how did you discover you had type two?

MATHERS: You know what, I had done the new "Leave It To Beaver." And I did that from '82 to '89. I thought, I'm going to retire and I'm going to lead the good life. And I thought that was like going out, eating, not getting a whole lot of exercise, kicking back.

KING: Why not?

MATHERS: I put on a lot of weight. I had a very good friend that was a doctor. I'm 55 now. This is about six years ago. He started telling me, you know what, you better come in for a physical. I said, I feel fine. I don't need a physical. He finally cajoled me enough, because he was a friend of mine, I'd see him at parties and things.

I went in there, came back about three days later and he said, how would you like to see your daughters graduate from high school? I said, that would be great. And get married and have grandkids? I said, that would be great. He said if you don't do something about your diabetes, you'll be dead in 3-5 years.

And I went, just like everybody else here's been saying, I thought I was fine. So I started with diet and exercise. Took off the weight. And, you know, I'm controlling it.

The insidious thing about this disease is that it's a back-ended. The quicker you attack it and start to bring your blood sugars down and control it, you'll have a much better quality of life.

KING: Wilford, how did you find out?

BRIMLEY: I got pretty sick.

KING: Really? BRIMLEY: Yes. I monkeyed around. I knew something was wrong. I thought I had cancer. I lost about 25 pounds in three weeks. And I had an unquenchable thirst. My tongue felt like a horseshoe rasp (ph). I couldn't get enough to drink. I would wake up -- well, I never went to sleep, because I would get up and urinate like every 30 minutes during the night. Finally, my son said, look, you know, you're either going to find out what's the matter with you, or I'm going to drag you in there. And I was diagnosed with diabetes.

KING: So you have the severe symptoms right from the get-go?

BRIMLEY: Well, I don't know about the get-go. I mean, I don't know how long I had it.

KING: You weren't introduced through just the normal blood test?

BRIMLEY: Oh, no.

KING: You were a sick person?

BRIMLEY: Oh, yes. I couldn't see.

KING That's common, right, Dr. Weil?

WEIL: Well, this is the form -- do you take insulin, Wilford?

BRIMLEY: I'm on medication. I take Actose (ph).

WEIL: Well, this is the more dramatic onset, which is less common with type two.

KING: Less common with type two?

WEIL: Yes.

KING: But can happen obviously. John Ratzenberger, your teenage son has type one, and that's more dangerous, right?

RATZENBERGER: Correct. He was diagnosed when he was 4 years old, Larry. I just noticed he was drinking a lot, going to the bathroom a lot. And I'd had some exposure to the symptoms from a friend of mine in London. We took him to the doctor.

And the doctor, incidentally, said most children are brought in with a coma. See, it has nothing to do with a sedentary lifestyle. You're just hit with type one. It shuts down all insulin production in your pancreas. In fact, Gary Hall, the Olympic athlete, he was diagnosed with type one. So it has nothing to do with the sedentary lifestyle that type two does.

KING: You don't have diabetes?

RATZENBERGER: I do not, no.

KING: Why is it called juvenile, John. RATZENBERGER: Well, because type one usually strikes children. One out of every 3 children are predisposed to it in the United States. Doesn't mean everyone is going to get it. But mostly children get it.

And the tough part, especially for parents, like I said, my son was four. But we have friends whose children were 18 months old. And what the child doesn't understand is that when you're coming into the room with a syringe to save its life every day, all they can translate is the pain. You get kids not understanding until they're at the age of reason.

So it becomes very -- it's even tough on the parents. So it's really the whole family is involved when a child gets diabetes. But my son is my hero. He's had it for 11 years now. He's a well-honed athlete.

KING: Takes insulin every day?

RATZENBERGER: He has an insulin pump. He has to take insulin every day. Anyone with type one diabetes takes insulin every single day.

KING: Does he ever go into shock?

RATZENBERGER: No, not yet, thank god. No. No. He's pretty well monitored. He's a very focused young man.

KING: Dr. Weil, doesn't type one diabetes indicate a shorter life span?

WEIL: If the disease is well controlled, you can slow down the acceleration of atherosclerosis and the complications that usually shorten life span. The interesting research coming out about type one diabetes, is it, too, may have a dietary connection.

KING: Really.

WEIL Yes. That the introduction of certain kinds of protein in a -- in infants or a young child's diet, at a certain critical period, either too soon or too late, may trigger the autoimmune reaction in genetically susceptible people.

KING: What about...

WEIL: Cow's milk and wheat protein have been particularly suspect. So maybe one day we'll be able to identify these things. If a child is born with this genetic constitution, we may be able to prevent the onset of this disease.

KING: Because I've learned that researchers at the University of Colorado, through the Barbara Davis Center for Childhood Diabetes found that the age matters when introducing cereal to children.

WEIL: Exactly. So it's the protein in these grains. But we don't know exactly when this critical period is. But this looks to me like a promising line of research.

KING: Della, does all this scare you?

REESE: Not anymore. It did scare me. Because all my information was negative. You see, everything -- it just seemed...

KING: The word is.

REESE: It just seemed like I had discovered the way I had to die.

KING: Are you scared?

MATHERS: You know, I definitely was scared. But I knew that if I did certain things, and took certain steps, that I could definitely prolong my life and make it a lot better.

KING: Do you test yourself every day, Wilford?

BRIMLEY About four times.

KING: Just a little blood prick? And what do you do if the readings high?

BRIMLEY: Well, if the reading is high, I maybe go for a little walk.

KING: It will send it down?

BRIMLEY: Oh, yes.

KING: It's amazing. We'll be right back with more of our panel. The subject is diabetes. Don't go away.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MARY TYLER MOORE, ACTRESS: When you think that 35 to 40 years ago, they were thinking of diabetes as a kind of mental illness, especially when evidenced by low blood sugar, which leaves you very strange feeling, and unable to function, they were just putting people into mental hospitals. We've come a long way.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KING: How important, doctor, is it to test?

WEIL: I think, of course, it's important to test. I don't, you know, with some people, once they get it under control, I don't think you have to be compulsive about that. But at the beginning, while you're learning how to do this, unless you have a good sense of what it feels like when your sugar is off, testing is a good thing. And there are simple ways to do this now.

KING: John, how does your son deal with it every day?

RATZENBERGER: Every day, like I said, Larry, when he was young, we made sure that we never referred to him as diabetic. That's the last thing you want to do with a child. You know, to introduce them as the disease. He's, like I said, I've always told him, he can do anything anybody else can do. You are going to be able to do anything anybody else can do. You'll get married, you'll be an athlete, but you have to deal with this diabetes, unfortunately. And he's done a remarkable job. I just, you know, bless him every day. He's just a great kid.

KING: Like Della, Wilford, do you watch yourself?

BRIMLEY: Watch myself what?

KING: Weight-wise, exercise. You know what I mean.

BRIMLEY: I fight the weight. When I quit smoking cigarettes, I put on 30 pounds. I fight the weight. But I try to watch what I eat. I swim. Two or three times a week.

KING: Good exercise.

BRIMLEY: Yeah, it is for me.

KING: Are you scared by all this?

BRIMLEY: No. It's too late to scare me. I'm scared one of my grandkids will get sick.

KING: What are the odds on that, doctor?

WEIL: Well, Larry, I want to say, you know, that I think the basic message here is that this disease is a chronic disease that can be managed. And I've heard a lot of people talking about that they watch what they eat, but I think that in order to do that right, you've got to get good information. We -- there's a lot of useful information that people with this disease should know, and you're not necessarily going to get it from conventional channels.

For example, the American Diabetes Association, in my opinion, is stuck in the mud. And it's putting out obsolete information about diet. We have a new way of understanding carbohydrate foods called the glycemic index that the American Diabetes Association has refused to accept. Many other countries in the world use this. It's an extremely important concept that rates foods as to how fast they turn into blood sugar. All these people should find out about that, because you want to know which foods, like a puffed rice cake is one of the worst things that you can eat, even though it's nonfat and seems like an austere diet food.

On the other hand, you can eat fruits like blueberries, and you can eat things like sweet potatoes, which some people avoid, and fat may not be as important an issue as understanding these differences in carbohydrate foods.

KING: How about steak?

WEIL: I think that given the fact that people with diabetes are more likely to develop atherosclerosis and coronary heart disease at an accelerated rate, it's a good idea to cut down on meat. So what Della said earlier, she said she hasn't eaten red meat in how many years, Della, 30 years?

REESE: Twenty-five, 25 years.

WEIL: Twenty-five years.

REESE: Yes.

WEIL: I think it doesn't have to be strict vegetarianism. But I think cutting down on animal foods, eating fish, which are the sources of these good fats, plenty of fresh fruits and vegetables, whole grains rather than processed and refined grains. Those are the basics of the diet you want to follow.

KING: Jerry, what don't you eat that you miss?

MATHERS: Licorice.

KING: Oh, licorice. Sweet man.

MATHERS: It's not like a big thing to give up. Actually, no, I don't really like any kind of other, like, chocolates, or anything, but black licorice is my favorite.

KING: There are non-sugar candies, though.

MATHERS: There are, there are, and they're good, too. But you know what? When you think about your life and how important it is to you and your kids and all the people around you, giving up things is not that hard.

REESE: That's the thing. That's the thing. It's not really a big decision.

MATHERS: No.

REESE: It's just -- I love my husband.

KING: Mr. Wilford.

REESE: And I love...

(CROSSTALK)

BRIMLEY: I haven't had any red meat in 25 minutes.

(CROSSTALK)

REESE: I want to have quality to my life. I want to live as wonderfully as I've been living. And if by giving up a few things and changing my mind about a few things will make me able to do that, then I'm willing to do it.

KING: Anything you have cut out you miss?

BRIMLEY: Yeah. Bread is my -- it's a killer. You know, my mother made bread. I lived on it.

KING: Oh, really?

BRIMLEY: Sure. And bread pudding. And bread and milk. And...

KING: Bread. You were a bred man.

BRIMLEY: I like bread.

KING: And bread turns to sugar, right, doctor?

WEIL: Yes. And the kinds that turn to sugar the fastest are the fluffy kinds, whether they're brown or white. On the other hand, are really dense, chewy piece of bread, a European peasant bread that's got some cracked grains in it, moderate amounts of that may be OK.

KING: How about when I see like six-grain bread. Is that healthy? Or seven-grain. Is seven-grain healthier? Twelve-grain, is that healthier than seven-grain?

WEIL: It really depends on what's been done with those grains. If they've been powdered into starch, no. If there are pieces of the grain in the bread that you can see and you really have to do some work to chew, then OK.

KING: John, does your son have to avoid certain foods?

RATZENBERGER: Oh, sure, yeah, just like the people with type two. You have to have a good diet. But again, type one is a completely different disease almost. And for the best information on this disease is childrenwithdiabetes.com. It's the ...

KING: That's your group, right?

RATZENBERGER: Well, I helped them out. Jeff Hitchcock (ph), a fellow, another dad, started the site. And it's now the biggest, the largest in the world.

KING: Let me repeat. I got to take a break. Www.childrenwithdiabetes.com. That's all one word. Della Reese's Web site is delladiabetes.com.

REESE: Right.

KING: And we'll be back with some more moments. Don't go away.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KING: Our subject is diabetes. Della Reese coming forward. Dr. Andrew Weil, Jerry Mathers, Wilford Brimley, John Ratzenberger. Will it be cured, Dr. Weil? WEIL: I think type two diabetes can go into complete remission. And that can be done without medication, purely by attending to lifestyle. I've seen many people who have lost weight, started an exercise program, began eating the right kind of diet, and the diabetes has disappeared. So it's in complete remission. It will come back if you gain the weight, stop exercising and eat the wrong foods. So I think it is absolutely possible for type two diabetes to disappear by all clinical measures.

KING: Now, for John Ratzenberger's sake, what about type one?

RATZENBERGER: The best hope for a cure right now is coming out of Miami, from the Diabetes Research Institute out of Miami. We're certainly getting closer. The funding needs to go up, because diabetes, I don't know if you realize it, only gets $47 per patient from the NIH. And it kills four times the amount of people that breast cancer and AIDS combined do. But right now, the best hope for a cure is the Diabetes Research Institute out of Miami.

KING: And Wilford, the Liberty Medical, that's covered by Medicare, right?

BRIMLEY: Yes.

KING: In many cases, right?

BRIMLEY: Yes.

KING: And they send the supplies right to your house?

BRIMLEY: They do that.

KING: So that you don't even have to go to the store?

BRIMLEY: No.

KING: And have kits to test yourself.

BRIMLEY: It's a very helpful way to get your supplies, especially if you're an old guy.

KING: Does your Web site deal with it, Jerry?

MATHERS: It talks about it. It talks about my having diabetes and what I've done. But you know, it's a very complicated disease. I mean, you have to carry something around to test yourself with. If you're injectable, you have to carry around the insulin. It has to be kept cold.

KING: That's for type one?

MATHERS: Actually, for type two, too. If a lot of people with type two progress to a point where they do have to take shots.

KING: Insulin, really? MATHERS: Yes, very definitely. So it's a very complicated disease. And that's what people have to understand. The quicker you attack it, the better you can control it.

KING: Like high blood pressure?

REESE: That's my point. That's the point of this brochure I've been telling you about, because there is information in there, new information, things you can do to help yourself. And knowledge is power. Once you know that you can do something about it, and you assert yourself, you are stronger than diabetes.

KING: Dr. Weil sadly you can have it and not know it.

WEIL: Absolutely. And as you said, Larry, many people find that they have this only through a routine blood test that shows an elevated blood sugar level. So it's an important test to get done, especially if there's a history of the disease in your family.

KING: Wilford?

BRIMLEY: I've had it for 25 years. I still got all my fingers, all my toes, I've got 20/20 vision. It's not the worst thing that ever happened to me. On the contrary, I've learned a little bit about self-discipline, which I had nothing whatsoever to do with...

REESE: You and me together.

BRIMLEY: It's been -- it's going to sound crazy, but in many, many ways, it's been beneficial to me. It's forced me to kind of monitor my behavior.

KING: I understand that.

BRIMLEY: And the one thing I would say to people, don't be scared. Don't be scared. You can fix it.

KING: You know, that's a good point, Jerry. You can be -- you can have a lucky illness.

MATHERS: Very definitely.

KING: It forces you to make corrections in your life.

MATHERS: And if you're ever going to have diabetes, this is the best time. If you knew what the poor people had to do 25 and 30 years ago, the testing, you went to a doctor's office, you sat there for hours and hours. You had to go back and back. Now you can have your own testing supplies. As I say, this is a manageable disease.

KING: It is hard, John, wasn't it, when your son was 4 to deal with it?

RATZENBERGER: Oh, absolutely. The earth opens up and swallows you whole, Larry, as a parent. You just -- you don't understand it, you don't know what's going on. But again, type one, you do have to control it with blood tests at least five times a day, insulin injections. Control is the key. I've met people who are 70, 80 years old with type one diabetes that are living great lives. But control is the key.

KING: And blindness, Dr. Weil, is one of the common things that occurs, right? Why?

WEIL: Because in diabetes, the disorder of metabolism causes disease of small blood vessels throughout the body. That's why people with diabetes develop susceptibility to skin infections, why they lose fingers and toes. And the same process happens in the retinas of the eyes, that the small blood vessels are damaged and the tissues suffers. So there is a generalized disease of little arteries and blood supply.

KING: How often, Della, do you go to the doctor?

REESE: I go now more than I ever went in my life, about four times a year. I used to -- didn't go unless they had to do something drastic and dramatic. I call -- he is a good friend of mine, I call him on a regular basis, although I don't go -- if I don't go, I call him every so often. I say, these are my statistics now.

KING: Jerry, how often do you go?

MATHERS: About every three months. I get -- I go in for bloodwork, and they look at all the things, you know. Also, if you have high cholesterols or high triglycerides, that's also a precursor, so you want to check those kinds of things.

KING: How often do you go, Wilford?

BRIMLEY: I go once a year. But I take a log with me that I've kept throughout the year, little books that I write a lot of stuff in.

KING: John, how often does your son go?

RATZENBERGER: It depends, (UNINTELLIGIBLE) tracking, on the average of about five or six weeks he'll go in.

KING: Thank you all very much for enlightening us. Della Reese, good luck.

REESE: Thank you.

KING: And good health. Dr. Andrew Weil, always great seeing you. Jerry Mathers, loved you for years. Wilford Brimley, one of my favorites. What can we say about John Ratzenberger? He cut his own place in the history of American television.