Getalifeboy please read - Disclaimers Discussion

[moviedude25]

Hi Getalifeboy,

You recently posted this:

I love the little disclaimer you have on your page!! It is funny...I actually am a lawyer and that disclaimer would not do you any good only because the bottom line is you would be breaking the law!!

Let's say you are a hitman!! And you made a potential customer sign a disclaimer saying..."By signing this you are saying your'e not a member of any law enforcement agency, CIA, FBI, you are not even Military Police!! And then they bust you....Do you think that paper would hold up in court?? LOL!!

Anyway the thing is with copywrited materials is you really have NOTHING to worry about. The FBI does NOT run around looking for flaming tape copyers!! THe only way there is a bust on videos is when the Copywrite owner goes after the seller. THe copywrite owner might have a agency gather evidence...and then the FBI STILL probably won't bother with it!!!

A guy here in New Jersey was Selling Frank Sinatra bootlegs out of his basement...The Sinatra family went nuts for a year complaining..They gathered evidence and busted the guy who was in his basement making tapes wearing a Sinatra shirt!!

THe Motion Picture Association of America does not allow selling of their movies and they aggresively battle it!! So stay clear of old blue eyes..And movies that are in theaters and you will avoid trouble!!"

I found this extremely intresting. First I am not a lawyer. I have read a lot of these disclaimers I've seen on many people's websites over the last three years of trading. I've always thought that they wouldn't hold up in a court of law either. One question I do have is wether or not it's legal to send someone copywrited material in a trade, not in a sale. In the past 5 years I've been online I've followed many cases of copywrite infringement. The common thread has always been the person accused of the illegal activity was blatently making money from someone else's work. I've never heard about a trader being busted for simply having tapes or cd's they shouldn't. I personally believe that if you do not sell you will be forever left alone by the MPAA or the RIAA. The US Copywrite laws after the VCR court cases state it's legal to give one copy of a tape to a friend as a gift. So is trading legal if you make a copy of an orginal? Obviously this is what got Napster is so much trouble, 60 million "friends" isn't plausable.

The US Copywrite laws basically state that as long as you have bought the orginal you may make a backup of it. There is the issue of DVD backups I am not sure of at the moment however. Every DVD is encrypted so that copying it is illegal. There are programs for sale that do not remove this encryption and allow you to make a backup of it, after you transcode it so as to shrink it down to a recordable DVD5 size from the DVD9 orginal. But is this legal to make a backup changing it like this? Obviously it is or the programs wouldn't be openly sold but something about this makes me think it's actually not legal at all.

Another question I have about sellers online is if a seller clearly states that by entering a webpage to conduct business with them you are claiming to own the orginal. This is very common on disclaimers I've read. Also most say that if you do not own the orginal you can still buy the backup on a "trial" basis. The trial basis is an agreement that states if you do not own the orginal you must distroy the backup within 24 hours of reciving. If someone buys a backup of a movie from this seller and agrees to these terms is this still illegal to this person to sell the tape or can the seller be liable? Everything digital has a terms of service agreement these days. If these claims are clearly written on a webpage is this treated the same way? Or is this clearly a myth that disclaimers actually do anything?

I wish I knew someone that knew copywrite laws as I have many questions about this sort of thing,

[Agent 13]

Originally posted by moviedude25
I wish I knew someone that knew copywrite laws as I have many questions about this sort of thing,

Personally, my gut feeling is that it is completely illegal to sell bootlegs (copies of professionally manufactured videos/DVDs). On the other hand, selling copies of shows you've taped off of TV for an amount to cover wear/tear on equipment as well as materials is not wrong (under $10 per tape).

I've done a great deal of research on-line regarding this subject, especially before I got on the tape trading band wagon. I, too, wish that the rules were more clearly defined by someone who truly knows rather than just someone spouting off the top of his head and/or who's cut and pasted someone else's opinion on the subject.

[moviedude25]

Originally posted by Agent 13
Personally, my gut feeling is that it is completely illegal to sell bootlegs (copies of professionally manufactured videos/DVDs). On the other hand, selling copies of shows you've taped off of TV for an amount to cover wear/tear on equipment as well as materials is not wrong (under $10 per tape).

The only difference I can see you are making is since something was aired on TV for anyone to see for free that paid for the television/cable/satellite/whatever but if this were true why at the start of every single sporting event broadcast on television is there a warning about "Rebroadcast with out written consent of the (Enter name of sport) is illegal..." So I doubt what your saying is true either about it not being "wrong". You'd have to clarify what you mean by "Not wrong". Just because it's on TV doesn't mean you can copy it and sell it in my eyes, that is not covered by the nature of the law. And the wear and tear cost you mentioned is associated with any recordable device (DVD Burner/VCR/VCD Recorder/Tivo/etc....). Hard to make the case to me how anyone could charge 10 dollars a tape (tape cost 1 dollar...) and blame it on wear and tear

Originally posted by Agent 13
I've done a great deal of research on-line regarding this subject, especially before I got on the tape trading band wagon. I, too, wish that the rules were more clearly defined by someone who truly knows rather than just someone spouting off the top of his head and/or who's cut and pasted someone else's opinion on the subject.

Where you saying that's what I did here? If you did you miss the point of my posting. I hoped to start a convesation with Getalifeboy about this sense he said he was a lawyer but he's visited this forum and not replied so I guess there won't be I think it would be great to speak to someone that knew these laws from the in's and outs instead of everything being so grey on the subject.....

[Agent 13]

Originally posted by moviedude25
Where you saying that's what I did here? If you did you miss the point of my posting.

No, I wasn't referring to your comments. I took your post exactly for what you intended. There was no hidden meaning.

[Getalifeboy]

I did not even notice this thread until now.. I have a email link and do usually respond to email!!

I am not a corporate lawyer but am very interested in the subject myself.

The case with Napster was a amazing thing because they made it known...They were violating and were arrogant about it. But if you asked old bands like "Led Zeppelin" or "THe Who" if they really gave a rats ass about it I think honestly it was not worth the bother!!

The problem with Napster is it was trouble for the future of music. Why bother reaching for the stars if somebody is going to simply steal your music?? and you will not make a cent!!

But when Cassette tapes were first on the scene in the 70's they had the same concern that people would record records and sell them.. Obviously the record industry was wrong and it did not suffer.

There is something about that package I suppose!! Cover art!! ect. ect.


As far as Tape trading goes!! It really is totall up to the copywrite owner. It is not a inforced law by any means.. I know certain families are sharks against copywrite infrigement...The families of Frank Sinatra, Abbott and Costello, and Jackie Gleason come to mind.

No detective agency is going to bang down a door after seeing ebay. It would only happen after intense pressure from lawyers of a copywrite owner..

and in ALL cases 99.9999999 % of the time..A person will get warned first.

There was a guy in NYC who got busted for selling DVD's of the "Hulk" a week before it was released...The Motion Picture Association of America are real sharks...They will come after you on ANY movie that is in theaters and not released on video yet.

So my feeling is if you stick to the moldy oldie tape trading nobody will give a rats ass!!

As far as sports go I think that is dangerous to sell. NFL..But I dont think they care about trading tapes as well!!