What is everyone's problem with Gary????

[That Other Fan]

My attempt at creating a HUGE thread with tons and tons of pointless debate, but I digress.... (j/k)

Reading the "Ricky does a the moonwalk" thread, I noticed alot of you despise Gary. Why?

Do you blame Gary for Lucy's career "dwindling"?

Think about this, it is the critics and certain biographers (I won't name them, lol) who refuse to give any attention to "The Lucy Show" and "Here's Lucy" though they both were Top 10 hits and major force to be reckoned with during their time on the air. It's the critics who refuse to look at Lucy's work on those shows simply writing them off as "Those shows weren't as funny as ILL, therefore we can disregard them.” It was the critics who berated “Life With Lucy” because it wasn’t ILL, and some of you who have viewed the show have said “It wasn’t THAT bad”. Personally, I can think of quite a few VERY popular 80'shows in which their entire run (usually 5 or 6 years) doesn’t even hold a candle to 8 or 9 LWL episodes that made the air.

Or is it the way Gary's portrayed in certain Lucy bio's?

Have you heard some not so great "Gary stories" that I don’t know of?

The only thing that even slightly "ticks me off" about Gary is that only a few weeks after Lucy's death he was dating Eva Gabor (according to one poster...I forget who). If that's true, that is something to get peeved over.

What did Gary do? Please fill me in...

[*ShortCake*]

Gary would bash Lucy behind her back when he was out in public. thats why I do not care for him.

[SPLAIN]

Although he gave her peace of mind and few problems during their 28 years together, he dated weeks after she died and insiders say she was having lots of trouble with him at the end. Eva left him because of his golf obsession whereas Lucy endured it for 28 years and was left alone all the time, and was miserable playing games at home when she could have been performing, and he was HER MANAGER! Lucy got 125 thousand a week for Life with Lucy and he got 100 thousand, seem fair to you? It was her rep that went down the toilet after that fiasco and The Queen is Dead headlines in the papers, he just went back to his golf game!

[*ShortCake*]

Originally posted by SPLAIN
Although he gave her peace of mind and few problems during their 28 years together, he dated weeks after she died and insiders say she was having lots of trouble with him at the end. Eva left him because of his golf obsession whereas Lucy endured it for 28 years and was left alone all the time, and was miserable playing games at home when she could have been performing, and he was HER MANAGER! Lucy got 125 thousand a week for Life with Lucy and he got 100 thousand, seem fair to you? It was her rep that went down the toilet after that fiasco and The Queen is Dead headlines in the papers, he just went back to his golf game!

he makes me so mad I could scream!! Didnt he also pick and chose her friends for her?? She couldnt be friends with the people she was friends with when she was with Desi if I recall too. Course I could be wrong.

[That Other Fan]

Originally posted by SPLAIN
Lucy got 125 thousand a week for Life with Lucy and he got 100 thousand, seem fair to you?

Of course, that's business. I'm sure even Lucy endorsed Gary recieving a huge paycheck. Get as much money from the "bloodsuckers" as you can.

It was her rep that went down the toilet after that fiasco and The Queen is Dead headlines in the papers, he just went back to his golf game!

"The Queen is Dead" headlines!?! So the media were insensitive sons of b*tches then as well I see. Actually Gary continued to bring ideas to Lucy, but she had just given up (on her career) at that point.

IMO, the critics kept viewers away from this show. That and the viewers that did watch wanted ILL and nothing Lucy did could satisfy that.

[Ricardos4ever]

Originally posted by Love, Lucy
he makes me so mad I could scream!! Didnt he also pick and chose her friends for her?? She couldnt be friends with the people she was friends with when she was with Desi if I recall too. Course I could be wrong.

I've heard Lucie Arnaz say that her mom would often talk about some of her former friends and say something like, "I never heard from her or saw her again. Was it something I said?" It's a shame because it came down to a few people who "got used to the routine" and a lot of her good friends from Desi's era were gone. I don't know if the loss of some of those friends were Gary's doing or maybe it was something Lucy said. Who knows? But I do know that some people felt like Gary tried to "drive them out." I think Carole Cooke was one of them. Marcella Rawbin may have been another. She has implied that Gary was very manipulative.

[SPLAIN]

Oh yes, of course, no doubt about it, Gary definitely weeded out all her old friends from Desi's days, that's all well documented! And NO, i don't think it's fair for her as the STAR to get 125 if that jerk got 100. They had a no concellation clause which meant that they had to receive a lump payment of 1 million dollars if they cancelled the show after 13 eps, he might have needed or wanted the money, she didn't need it. Didn't the Japanese offer her almost that amount to do a one day commercial only airing in Japan.

[Ricardos4ever]

I think the difference between Gary and Desi was that Desi was always looking out for Lucy's best interest in the business, whereas Gary's intentions were suspect. I loved when Desi was on the Tonight Show in the '70s and Carson said something like, "You had many big shows on the air at one time, lots of big stars working for you..." and Desi said, "Yeah, but mostly we had Lucy." He never lost sight of the fact that she was it, she was the talent. Lucy trusted him because he knew what was good for her.

Gary thought he knew what was good for her, but some of his decisions were not in her best interest. Insiders said that it became very very hard to get scripts to her because Gary would always have to see it first. And it is partially understandable, because reading scripts takes a lot of time, but it appears that he didn't let her have a mind of her own. When the scripts you see are being filtered through someone else who possibly has his own agenda, Lucy probably passed up some great material without even knowing it.

On the other hand, Lucy didn't want him doing stand-up anymore and gave him a job in her company. That was her choice; she dug her own grave, in a way. I've always wondered why she chose to do this because she had a husband on staff before and it contributed to the demise of their marriage in a big way. Desi and Lucy saw each other too much, the pressure of the big business made an alchoholic out of Desi, etc. Knowing this, why would she continue on the same path with her second husband by keeping it in the family? Maybe it was because she wanted to keep on eye on him to make sure he wasn't cheating. Maybe it was to make him feel important. But when you work for your wife and are making decisions for her, but she's still seeking out her ex-husband for advice on business because he's the "brilliant" one, then how important can you really feel?

[SPLAIN]

No argument that they both suffered from the Mr Ball syndrome. Desi's biggest contribution to Lucy's career definitely was his looking out for her best interests, making her look good at all times, then again, he didn't want her to do Mame, so we would have lost one of her best performances. Yes, i remember that interview where he told Carson, mostly we had Lucy, they even had this one line that they kept repeating, even Lucy herself said it many times, keep your eye on the money, and I'm the money. Remember the other great joke that the writer used to tell, one of the two later Bobs. He said that Lucy almost tripped on some wires and Desi joked, WATCH IT GUYS, ANYTHING EVER HAPPENS TO HER, AND WE'RE ALL IN THE SHRIMP BUSINESS! Getting back to topic, when i think that Lucy could have played the role in Driving Miss Daisy, and finally won her Oscar, or that role in The Manchurian Candidate that went to Angela Landsbury and all those tv roles she kept being considered for that went to Jean Stapleton or Jessica Tandy, it only reinforces in my mind what a great ending she might have had if her manager husband HAD been more concerned with her happiness and career rather than his own well being. We all remember him turning down the Broadway show that Lee was working on securing for her, because it would have meant moving to New York and losing his golf for six months, so he got her Stone Pillow instead.

[*ShortCake*]

Originally posted by SPLAIN
No argument that they both suffered from the Mr Ball syndrome. Desi's biggest contribution to Lucy's career definitely was his looking out for her best interests, making her look good at all times, then again, he didn't want her to do Mame, so we would have lost one of her best performances. Yes, i remember that interview where he told Carson, mostly we had Lucy, they even had this one line that they kept repeating, even Lucy herself said it many times, keep your eye on the money, and I'm the money. Remember the other great joke that the writer used to tell, one of the two later Bobs. He said that Lucy almost tripped on some wires and Desi joked, WATCH IT GUYS, ANYTHING EVER HAPPENS TO HER, AND WE'RE ALL IN THE SHRIMP BUSINESS! Getting back to topic, when i think that Lucy could have played the role in Driving Miss Daisy, and finally won her Oscar, or that role in The Manchurian Candidate that went to Angela Landsbury and all those tv roles she kept being considered for that went to Jean Stapleton or Jessica Tandy, it only reinforces in my mind what a great ending she might have had if her manager husband HAD been more concerned with her happiness and career rather than his own well being. We all remember him turning down the Broadway show that Lee was working on securing for her, because it would have meant moving to New York and losing his golf for six months, so he got her Stone Pillow instead.

Heaven forbid that he misses golf for a few months!! Whatta pig.

[Ricardos4ever]

Originally posted by SPLAIN
Remember the other great joke that the writer used to tell, one of the two later Bobs. He said that Lucy almost tripped on some wires and Desi joked, WATCH IT GUYS, ANYTHING EVER HAPPENS TO HER, AND WE'RE ALL IN THE SHRIMP BUSINESS!

Desi always had some great one-liners. Of course, you all know: "The only thing red about her is her hair, and even that's not legitimate."

I've always liked the story that Fred Ball told when he and Desi were going to sail to Catalina. Desi began drinking early and it was getting late. Desi was drunk and Fred said, "We can't go to Catalina now" and Desi said, "Oh yes, we're going to Catalina." So Desi was captain and it was pitch dark in the cabin, it was storming and Desi was way off course - lost, if I remember correctly. Fred cut himself on a fishing hook and could feel the blood all over him. Meanwhile, a big wave washed up and hit Desi in the face. He wiped his eyes off and turned to Fred and said, "If we get there and they're singing 'aloha,' then you know we're not in Catalina." He had a great sense of humor like that.

Ok, back to business...

Originally posted by SPLAIN
Desi's biggest contribution to Lucy's career definitely was his looking out for her best interests, making her look good at all times, then again, he didn't want her to do Mame, so we would have lost one of her best performances.

I have not seen "Mame," so I personally can't comment on how good it was or wasn't (I know that you're a big fan of the film, Claude), but I do know that some of the reviews broke her heart. So maybe, just maybe, it would have been better if she had followed his advice.

Originally posted by SPLAIN
We all remember him turning down the Broadway show that Lee was working on securing for her, because it would have meant moving to New York and losing his golf for six months, so he got her Stone Pillow instead.

Stone Pillow ruined her health, but Lucy always said that everytime she did a play (Dream Girl, Wildcat) she always ended up sick in the end. So it may have been a lose-lose situation. Although, Stone Pillow sounded like it was probably worse. Her health never recovered.

[SPLAIN]

I'm not the only one that LOVES her in mame, i could make you a list of Mame lovers on the boards, if it can be copied, i'll even supply you with a copy if you want. Hon, ever try and tell a Leo NOT to do something, i'm a Leo, take it from me, Lucy loved to sing and dance, she worshipped performers who could do it well, she was starting out when the biggest stars were Fred and Ginger, she so wanted to do Hello Dolly but the producer gave it to Streisand who was much too young for the part, so she had to give up on that one, but even a recently broken leg could not keep her away from Mame. Not the fact that she couldn't sing well, or dance even sincer her skiing accident, Mame was larger than life, and although Lucy was everywoman and not like the character, you know, wordly and sophisticated, she made herself BECOME Mame, and she did. The movie was supposed to be directed by George Cukor, the reknowned woman's director, when she broke her leg, the producers delayed the picture a year, but Cukor went to another film, so Bea Arthur's husband directed badly instead, you see her actually pausing at the top of the stairs, waiting for the cue to come down at one point. It was a new era of slamming celebrities, so an old fashionned musical in the seventies and the era of Jaws made no sense. And while Lucy looked glorious in the film, she was by then too old for the early part of the film so she was photographed thru gauze so thick that every reviewer seized on that and some even asked why she would want to look like a female impersonator. But, if you like musicals, and you see it today, she looks and sounds and acts like the supertalent she was. Bigger than life, BUT, the public wanted her in comedies, not musicals, and although it's been referred to as a golden turkey, it made it's money back on the mediun Lucy flourished on, TV!

[crazyredhead]

oh gosh.. I can't stand to even look at pictures of Gary..

enough said about that...


LUCY AND DESI 4EVER!!

[SPLAIN]

I thought i would bust a gut the first time i read that Desi referred to Gary Morton as Barry Norton, to his kids.

[Ricardos4ever]

Originally posted by SPLAIN
I thought i would bust a gut the first time i read that Desi referred to Gary Morton as Barry Norton, to his kids.

Yeah, and supposedly Desi never called Gary anything else but that (but never to his face, of course). I wonder if Lucy ever knew it? Like if the kids ever slipped up and called him Barry cause they were so used to their dad calling him that. In interviews, Gary has spoken so friendly of Desi, saying things like, "Desi and I are good friends because of the kids. I call him my husband-in-law." But I guess maybe he was exaggerating a bit?