Film quality of The Honeymooners in syndication - Sitcoms Online Message Boards

Just Popped In · 07-29-2003, 06:38 PM

I do like this show, but I'm curious to know why the quality of the pictures we're seeing of The Honeymooners today does not look as sharp as the way I Love Lucy (ILL) looks today. Why is this so?

Is it because ILL was restored better than The Honeymooners?

Is that the way the films used to appear back in the 50's? (pardon my ignorance....)

Just Popped In · 07-29-2003, 06:41 PM

Whoops, nevermind. I think someone else kind of answered my question in another thread below: The Honeymooners was filmed live, while ILL was filmed before a live audience (big difference).

So I guess that's why, right???

VIDEOWACK · 07-30-2003, 09:29 PM

If you're talking of the "classic 39" Honeymooners that have been in syndication since the late 50's, those were shot on 35mm film with 3 cameras in front of an audience, just as I Love Lucy was. The "LOST" Honeymooners that surfaced in 1985 (first on Showtime, then put into syndication) are kinescopes from the LIVE "Jackie Gleason Show" from 1952-55 and 1956-57. Kinescopes are 16mm recordings that were literally shot off of a black and white TV monitor while the show was being performed live on stage. The purpose for recording them in those days was to be able to re-broadcast the shows in the eastern time zone 3 hours later for the WEST coast. Kinescopes and 35mm film have 2 completely different appearances to them, and that might be what you are seeing. Resolution is far better on the 35mm filmed recordings than on the scratchy kinescopes. Every Honeymooners episode in syndication was shot before a live audience, whether it was the "classic 39" or the Gleason variety hour sketches.

Just Popped In · 07-30-2003, 10:14 PM

Hey, thanks...you've explained it thoroughly. Obviously, there's a difference in the way the "classic 39" eps were filmed compared to the live Jackie Gleason show.

I will need to take another look at one of the classic 39 episodes to see if there's a difference in the quality of the pics compared to that of one of the Gleason variety hour sketches (and of course I'll have to check it out on video since no TV network or channel is playing reruns of it at this time)

I have another question: In this day and age, does the title "The Honeymooners" refer to both the classic 39 eps as well as that of the Jackie Gleason show, or just the "classic 39?" I'm asking, because I assume the last time I saw "The Honeymooners" on TV Land, I was actually seeing eps from the Jackie Gleason show (which account for the scratchy appearance of the films).

VIDEOWACK · 07-30-2003, 11:07 PM

Yes, the title "The Honeymooners" now refers to both the "classic 39" as well as the "Lost" episodes. Some stations have all of them in the syndication package and alternate them on their air schedule. Which means if you ever see "The Honeymooners" listed in a TV Guide or paper without a synopsis, there's no telling if you will actually see a LOST or CLASSIC episode.

Just Popped In · 08-01-2003, 01:33 AM

Hey...I just checked out a video with 4 eps of the "classic 39," and I can see that the picture quality is sharp. So I must have been looking at one of the "lost" eps (back when it was on TV Land) when I was seeing scratchy pictures.

Now I just need to check out a video of one of the "lost" eps to see the difference

Thanks again

treky · 08-12-2003, 04:01 AM

when Jackie Gleason became host of "The Jackie Gleason show" in the 50s (orriginally called "The Calvacade of Stars"-thhen CBS bought it and renamed it) once he saw the show being recorded on a monitor, and he asked "What's that for?" they told him, "That's called a kinescope, it's so we can show the episode later to the West Coast." And he said "Well, then, can you make a 2nd copy for me?" They said "Sure."
Then, for years, Jackie had them in a special air-conditioned vault in his home in Miami, but didn't tell anyone. Then, in the mid-80s, he decided to bring them out of storage, finnaly.
I remember reading somewher once, that for a while, he was thinking of destroying them, because they were taking up too much room.

musicradio77 · 08-14-2003, 10:00 PM

I've seen it years ago on WPIX Channel 11, WB affilliate. Now the only classic late night show was gone on a weekday basis. It was shown possibly on New Year's Eve and New Year's Day for the marathon. The lost episodes was also shown on channel 11 when it was first appeared in 1985 includes kinoscope segments from "The Jackie Gleason Show". The Classic 39 are good. It should be watched for a long time.

07-29-2003, 06:38 PM	#1
Just Popped In Lucy & Ricky forever Frequent Poster Join Date: Nov 16, 2002 Location: Monterey Peninsula, California Posts: 304	Film quality of The Honeymooners in syndication I do like this show, but I'm curious to know why the quality of the pictures we're seeing of The Honeymooners today does not look as sharp as the way I Love Lucy (ILL) looks today. Why is this so? Is it because ILL was restored better than The Honeymooners? Is that the way the films used to appear back in the 50's? (pardon my ignorance....)

07-30-2003, 09:29 PM	#3
VIDEOWACK Member Eternal Member Frequent Poster Join Date: Jun 30, 2003 Location: Long Island NY Posts: 339	If you're talking of the "classic 39" Honeymooners that have been in syndication since the late 50's, those were shot on 35mm film with 3 cameras in front of an audience, just as I Love Lucy was. The "LOST" Honeymooners that surfaced in 1985 (first on Showtime, then put into syndication) are kinescopes from the LIVE "Jackie Gleason Show" from 1952-55 and 1956-57. Kinescopes are 16mm recordings that were literally shot off of a black and white TV monitor while the show was being performed live on stage. The purpose for recording them in those days was to be able to re-broadcast the shows in the eastern time zone 3 hours later for the WEST coast. Kinescopes and 35mm film have 2 completely different appearances to them, and that might be what you are seeing. Resolution is far better on the 35mm filmed recordings than on the scratchy kinescopes. Every Honeymooners episode in syndication was shot before a live audience, whether it was the "classic 39" or the Gleason variety hour sketches.
	__________________ Rob Honorary Raccoon

08-12-2003, 04:01 AM	#7
treky star trek fan Eternal Member Forum Fanatic Join Date: Feb 25, 2002 Location: Conshohocken, pennsylvania Posts: 14,490	when Jackie Gleason became host of "The Jackie Gleason show" in the 50s (orriginally called "The Calvacade of Stars"-thhen CBS bought it and renamed it) once he saw the show being recorded on a monitor, and he asked "What's that for?" they told him, "That's called a kinescope, it's so we can show the episode later to the West Coast." And he said "Well, then, can you make a 2nd copy for me?" They said "Sure." Then, for years, Jackie had them in a special air-conditioned vault in his home in Miami, but didn't tell anyone. Then, in the mid-80s, he decided to bring them out of storage, finnaly. I remember reading somewher once, that for a while, he was thinking of destroying them, because they were taking up too much room.
	__________________ the Clampetts are in a fancy Beverly Hills jewelry store. Granny points to a tray of rubies. Granny: "How much fer one o' them red diamonds?" clerk: "Madam, those are rubies." Granny: "OK ask her kin we buy one offa her." clerk: " The ruby I am talking about is not a lady." Granny: "Lissen, how she got them diamonds is her business. I'm just sayin' ask her kin we buy one from her."

08-14-2003, 10:00 PM	#8
musicradio77 Disney Expert Forum Veteran Join Date: Jul 14, 2003 Location: Brooklyn, NY USA Posts: 6,475	I've seen it years ago on WPIX Channel 11, WB affilliate. Now the only classic late night show was gone on a weekday basis. It was shown possibly on New Year's Eve and New Year's Day for the marathon. The lost episodes was also shown on channel 11 when it was first appeared in 1985 includes kinoscope segments from "The Jackie Gleason Show". The Classic 39 are good. It should be watched for a long time.
	__________________ Musicradio77 Productions

07-29-2003, 06:41 PM	#2
Just Popped In Lucy & Ricky forever Frequent Poster Join Date: Nov 16, 2002 Location: Monterey Peninsula, California Posts: 304	Whoops, nevermind. I think someone else kind of answered my question in another thread below: The Honeymooners was filmed live, while ILL was filmed before a live audience (big difference). So I guess that's why, right???

07-30-2003, 10:14 PM	#4
Just Popped In Lucy & Ricky forever Frequent Poster Join Date: Nov 16, 2002 Location: Monterey Peninsula, California Posts: 304	Hey, thanks...you've explained it thoroughly. Obviously, there's a difference in the way the "classic 39" eps were filmed compared to the live Jackie Gleason show. I will need to take another look at one of the classic 39 episodes to see if there's a difference in the quality of the pics compared to that of one of the Gleason variety hour sketches (and of course I'll have to check it out on video since no TV network or channel is playing reruns of it at this time) I have another question: In this day and age, does the title "The Honeymooners" refer to both the classic 39 eps as well as that of the Jackie Gleason show, or just the "classic 39?" I'm asking, because I assume the last time I saw "The Honeymooners" on TV Land, I was actually seeing eps from the Jackie Gleason show (which account for the scratchy appearance of the films).

07-30-2003, 11:07 PM	#5
VIDEOWACK Member Eternal Member Frequent Poster Join Date: Jun 30, 2003 Location: Long Island NY Posts: 339	Yes, the title "The Honeymooners" now refers to both the "classic 39" as well as the "Lost" episodes. Some stations have all of them in the syndication package and alternate them on their air schedule. Which means if you ever see "The Honeymooners" listed in a TV Guide or paper without a synopsis, there's no telling if you will actually see a LOST or CLASSIC episode.

08-01-2003, 01:33 AM	#6
Just Popped In Lucy & Ricky forever Frequent Poster Join Date: Nov 16, 2002 Location: Monterey Peninsula, California Posts: 304	Hey...I just checked out a video with 4 eps of the "classic 39," and I can see that the picture quality is sharp. So I must have been looking at one of the "lost" eps (back when it was on TV Land) when I was seeing scratchy pictures. Now I just need to check out a video of one of the "lost" eps to see the difference Thanks again