Subtle foreshadowing?........ - Sitcoms Online Message Boards

Janice Johnson · 06-27-2003, 09:29 AM

In regards to Lisa Bonet's and Bill Cosby arguments and disagreements... Look at the Season Openings. 2 and 3. What does she do? She bumps him in her dancing in both season credits. In 2 season opening she bumps him off camera/screen. Message in this? Maybe then it was just part of the dance. I don't know. I never thought about it until now when I paid real close attention to the season openings. Do you see anyone else bumping Bill? Nooooooooooooo. Was this a sign of their disagreements?

theanswerman · 06-27-2003, 04:00 PM

i never noticed that maybe they hated eacother from the beginning

Good Observation

call-alluejah · 06-28-2003, 01:34 AM

That's a good observation, it's definitely possible. But it does sound a little farfetched though.

theanswerman · 06-28-2003, 09:54 AM

Yeah, it does. I guesss if they hated eachother from the beginning BIll probably would not have used her for Denise. i think at her becasue it was around this time that Lisa made a deliberate attempt to shed her "goody-two-shoes" Cosby daughter image by making the controversial movie "Angel Heart," where she had racy nude and sex scenes. The backlash from making "Angel Heart" is rumored to have prompted Lisa's exit from "The Cosby Show." But with Bill Cosby's help, Lisa landed on another comedy series, "A Different World," in which she starred as a student at a mostly black university. But perhaps due to her personal problems, Lisa began showing up late for work (or sometimes not at all), and she was fired from the series.

Janice · 06-30-2003, 12:21 AM

It's a good observation, but I don't think it rings true. From all accounts, Bill Cosby was involved in every single solitary detail on that show. Nothing got past the man. He even had a doctor of human behavior as a consultant on the show to ensure the family dynamics and character development were right on target.
With that said, Lisa wouldn't be allowed to bump Bill on her own. I'm sure those dances were carefully choreographed by professionals.
I think you're right that Lisa bumping Bill is indictative of something. I think it was done to symbolize the wild child rebel she portrayed on the show.

call-alluejah · 07-01-2003, 02:26 AM

i just have to say wow on that." carefully choreographed", i'm not too sure about that.
If he did have a human behavior consultant then ok, but it was also true that Bill tried to make the show as close to a real family as possible. So Denise bumping him was just indicative of something she wanted to do at the time so she just did it. And she really looked like she wanted to dance, if she was mad at him, i don't think she would have moved too much, maybe like how vanessa didn't dance too much in the " season credits"( when bill pushed her on the stage and she just stood there, then slowly did something).

TALLguyinKY · 07-01-2003, 04:02 AM

I'm inclined to think that each season's opening was planned and choreographed (or at least "overseen").

But if they weren't, if they didn't want Lisa to bump Bill, they wouldn't have left it in.

DianeChambers87 · 07-01-2003, 09:09 AM

I honestly think that you people are looking way to much into this. I don't think that she bumped him was done to show that she was the rebel, or was going to have her way or whatever. Every kid had sort of a different dance, Denise happened to get that step. I will bet you anything that it was at least semi-choreographed.Maybe now to all of you that may seem ironic, with all of the stuff that we learned was happening behind the scenes, but why would they even try to send that sort of message out there?

Janice · 07-01-2003, 05:17 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DianeChambers87
I honestly think that you people are looking way to much into this. I don't think that she bumped him was done to show that she was the rebel, or was going to have her way or whatever. Every kid had sort of a different dance, Denise happened to get that step. I will bet you anything that it was at least semi-choreographed.Maybe now to all of you that may seem ironic, with all of the stuff that we learned was happening behind the scenes, but why would they even try to send that sort of message out there?

I don't think we're reading too much into anything. Cosby read a whole lot into everything on his show.
Everything, and I mean everything, on a show is there by design. From the pictures on the wall, books displayed, clothes, music, etc.
Those opening sequenes were most certainly coached. There were acting coaches, voice and dialog coaches--so it's implausible to think that the actors were told to just improvise the dancing. The reason they would send that message about wild child Denise is because dancing instructors are very artistic people and into expression. Also, Cosby wouldn't allow Denise, whom he considered a thorn in his side, to bump him without his permission.
Here are links to read about the acting and speech dialect coaches and the psychiatric doctor who acted as a consultant to ensure realism of the character's personalities.

http://www.thehistorymakers.com/biog...=medicalMakers

http://web.ask.com/redir?bpg=http%3a...y%2facting.asp

http://web.ask.com/redir?bpg=http%3a...6856354-1.html

Janice · 07-01-2003, 05:26 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by call-alluejah
i just have to say wow on that." carefully choreographed", i'm not too sure about that.
If he did have a human behavior consultant then ok, but it was also true that Bill tried to make the show as close to a real family as possible. So Denise bumping him was just indicative of something she wanted to do at the time so she just did it. And she really looked like she wanted to dance, if she was mad at him, i don't think she would have moved too much, maybe like how vanessa didn't dance too much in the " season credits"( when bill pushed her on the stage and she just stood there, then slowly did something).

There was a lot of dancing throughout the run of The Cosby Show. The kids used to put on those dancing routines together for their parents and their grandparents. They didn't do them on their own I'm sure. Bill Cosby was too much of a perfectionist to allow that.
As for the opening dance sequences, there's not a doubt in my mind that they were coached.
And, yes, there was a human behavior consultant on the show. His name is Dr. Alvin Poussaint, and he was interviewed on The E! True Hollywood Story--The Cosby Kids.
http://www.thehistorymakers.com/biog...=medicalMakers

call-alluejah · 07-02-2003, 01:14 AM

I don't know , choreographing everything would sound like a little too much. If you saw "the cosby show:a look back" you would see them say countless times that Bill didn't like to rehearse stuff too much because it took the fun out of the comedy, and the realness of the show suffered. Especially seen through his ad libbing which he frequently did in many scenes. So saying that he scrutinized over dance routines, which are much less important than the actual content inside on the show sounds a little contradictory to everything i've heard about the show.
i dunno, anything is possible but that sounds a little much.

Janice · 07-02-2003, 12:12 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by call-alluejah
I don't know , choreographing everything would sound like a little too much. If you saw "the cosby show:a look back" you would see them say countless times that Bill didn't like to rehearse stuff too much because it took the fun out of the comedy, and the realness of the show suffered. Especially seen through his ad libbing which he frequently did in many scenes. So saying that he scrutinized over dance routines, which are much less important than the actual content inside on the show sounds a little contradictory to everything i've heard about the show.
i dunno, anything is possible but that sounds a little much.

From all accounts that I've read or seen, Bill Cosby was a perfectionist beyond words. He scrutinized over everything, and it would be contradictory to everything I've heard about him if he didn't make sure the dance routines were perfect.
Since he hired acting and speech coaches, I hardly think he would let the actors just wing it on the opening sequence. The opening is an important part of a show.
There's no shame in having a professional dance instructor guide them. The most famous movie stars in the world have them when dancing in movies.
The other dance routines are 'actual content inside the show'. Of course they were done with precision.
Bill could ad lib because he was a natural comedian. The actors dancing in step is another story.

TALLguyinKY · 07-04-2003, 04:34 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by call-alluejah
I don't know , choreographing everything would sound like a little too much. If you saw "the cosby show:a look back" you would see them say countless times that Bill didn't like to rehearse stuff too much because it took the fun out of the comedy, and the realness of the show suffered. Especially seen through his ad libbing which he frequently did in many scenes. So saying that he scrutinized over dance routines, which are much less important than the actual content inside on the show sounds a little contradictory to everything i've heard about the show.
i dunno, anything is possible but that sounds a little much.

But look at that one season---I can't remember which---where Cliff dances in front of Vanessa, but she just stands there and looks at him embarrassed, and then at the camera, like, "OMG, I cannot believe my father is doin' this."

That just supports even more that the dances were specified for each character, and the actors were told what sort of dance (or in Vanessa's case, "not dance") to do.

call-alluejah · 07-05-2003, 01:14 AM

I don't know about that, i guess i have to see again what Vanessa said in the opening. But if that's the case , then that would show that The Cosby show people themselves told Denise to bump Cliff because she was angry with him. Which wouldn't then be a feeling that she held back. And if it was a defiant move from Lisa Bonet then why did they leave it on the opening. The whole choreography thing is just too much. Again, the sponteneity of the show i think is a definite indication that not everything was choreographed.

The links that you provided Janice only talk about the person, and just list the cosby show, not the full extent of what they did there. Bill wanted to show to be as real as possible. hence the grandmother's and grandfathers, and full extent into Bill's history as an athlete. But acting coaches doesn't seem to me like an example of him scrutinizing over everything. He was always dealing with kids in the show( whether they be huxtables or other kids) which i'm sure at some point needed a little coaching. He also had guest appearances with people that didn't act to much( ex. BB King, Dizzie Gillespie, Placido Damingo), the acting coaches could have been for them.

Speech and Dialect coaches make sense also, because The cosby show had many different people on the show from different countries. Maybe they needed help with stuff,maybe the accent's made their dialogue indinstictive. There are countless amount of things the coaches could have been there for.

Choreographing a celebration of the grandparents anniversary and choreographing an opening sequence is totally different. In the opening sequence it is the family being real just dancing to a song, for the grandparents it's a famiily putting on a show for the parents, it wouldn't be an anniversary present if everyone just danced anyway they wanted and lip synched any part of the song they wanted. The grandparents probably wouldn't want a present like that the second time because it would have looked disorganized and not thought of well.So it had to be choreographed or it wouldn't have been something special from the family. It showed that they got together and put something together as a family.

Sorry, I hope that's not too long. Had to address alot.

TALLguyinKY · 07-05-2003, 05:00 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by call-alluejah
But if that's the case , then that would show that The Cosby show people themselves told Denise to bump Cliff because she was angry with him. Which wouldn't then be a feeling that she held back.

Who said she was "angry"? She's smilin' and dancin', and I've always taken it to mean she was just goofin' around and really gettin' into the music.

And since the theme would be seen over 20 times a year, I find it hard to believe they'd just play music and tell the actors, "okay, dance". I still think that, because of many examples (mainly my Vanessa one cited above), that the actors were definitely told at least what sort of moves to do.

06-27-2003, 09:29 AM	#1
Janice Johnson Commercial Lover Forum 4000 Club Member Join Date: May 30, 2003 Location: Miami, Florida Posts: 4,738	Subtle foreshadowing?........ In regards to Lisa Bonet's and Bill Cosby arguments and disagreements... Look at the Season Openings. 2 and 3. What does she do? She bumps him in her dancing in both season credits. In 2 season opening she bumps him off camera/screen. Message in this? Maybe then it was just part of the dance. I don't know. I never thought about it until now when I paid real close attention to the season openings. Do you see anyone else bumping Bill? Nooooooooooooo. Was this a sign of their disagreements?

06-27-2003, 04:00 PM	#2
theanswerman OMGWTFLOLZ Senior Member Join Date: Jun 04, 2003 Location: i lurve you! (israel) Posts: 2,636	i never noticed that maybe they hated eacother from the beginning Good Observation
	__________________ Originally posted by safety pin my cat woke up up at like 5:30 this morning. she wanted me to let her out of the room. then she came back in and wanted to play. rufus wainwright - in a graveyard This next song is a song about death, and...how you shouldn't be afraid of it. Also, I wrote it on acid, so it should be pretty good..."

06-28-2003, 01:34 AM	#3
call-alluejah Hillman Graduate Frequent Poster Join Date: Mar 18, 2003 Location: 10 Stigwood Ave Posts: 215	That's a good observation, it's definitely possible. But it does sound a little farfetched though.
	__________________ if u don't know where my username comes from, think back to "The Callalloo Pot" Cosby episode and you should kno. -I'm a Hillman Graduate, Not her. But she's still hot though- "a pelican...that is wet walks... with a gaited limp,....but a dry fish... swims alone"

07-01-2003, 09:09 AM	#8
DianeChambers87 Elizabeth B. Malone Forum Veteran Join Date: Feb 16, 2003 Location: Swampland USA Posts: 5,178	I honestly think that you people are looking way to much into this. I don't think that she bumped him was done to show that she was the rebel, or was going to have her way or whatever. Every kid had sort of a different dance, Denise happened to get that step. I will bet you anything that it was at least semi-choreographed.Maybe now to all of you that may seem ironic, with all of the stuff that we learned was happening behind the scenes, but why would they even try to send that sort of message out there?
	__________________ Strange Fascinations, Fascinating me

06-28-2003, 09:54 AM	#4
theanswerman OMGWTFLOLZ Senior Member Join Date: Jun 04, 2003 Location: i lurve you! (israel) Posts: 2,636	Yeah, it does. I guesss if they hated eachother from the beginning BIll probably would not have used her for Denise. i think at her becasue it was around this time that Lisa made a deliberate attempt to shed her "goody-two-shoes" Cosby daughter image by making the controversial movie "Angel Heart," where she had racy nude and sex scenes. The backlash from making "Angel Heart" is rumored to have prompted Lisa's exit from "The Cosby Show." But with Bill Cosby's help, Lisa landed on another comedy series, "A Different World," in which she starred as a student at a mostly black university. But perhaps due to her personal problems, Lisa began showing up late for work (or sometimes not at all), and she was fired from the series.

06-30-2003, 12:21 AM	#5
Janice Retired Admin - Hollywood Swingin' Forum Legend Join Date: Aug 03, 2001 Location: Beantown Posts: 36,388	It's a good observation, but I don't think it rings true. From all accounts, Bill Cosby was involved in every single solitary detail on that show. Nothing got past the man. He even had a doctor of human behavior as a consultant on the show to ensure the family dynamics and character development were right on target. With that said, Lisa wouldn't be allowed to bump Bill on her own. I'm sure those dances were carefully choreographed by professionals. I think you're right that Lisa bumping Bill is indictative of something. I think it was done to symbolize the wild child rebel she portrayed on the show.

07-01-2003, 02:26 AM	#6
call-alluejah Hillman Graduate Frequent Poster Join Date: Mar 18, 2003 Location: 10 Stigwood Ave Posts: 215	i just have to say wow on that." carefully choreographed", i'm not too sure about that. If he did have a human behavior consultant then ok, but it was also true that Bill tried to make the show as close to a real family as possible. So Denise bumping him was just indicative of something she wanted to do at the time so she just did it. And she really looked like she wanted to dance, if she was mad at him, i don't think she would have moved too much, maybe like how vanessa didn't dance too much in the " season credits"( when bill pushed her on the stage and she just stood there, then slowly did something).

07-01-2003, 04:02 AM	#7
TALLguyinKY Member Senior Member Join Date: Mar 18, 2002 Posts: 1,439	I'm inclined to think that each season's opening was planned and choreographed (or at least "overseen"). But if they weren't, if they didn't want Lisa to bump Bill, they wouldn't have left it in.

07-02-2003, 01:14 AM	#11
call-alluejah Hillman Graduate Frequent Poster Join Date: Mar 18, 2003 Location: 10 Stigwood Ave Posts: 215	I don't know , choreographing everything would sound like a little too much. If you saw "the cosby show:a look back" you would see them say countless times that Bill didn't like to rehearse stuff too much because it took the fun out of the comedy, and the realness of the show suffered. Especially seen through his ad libbing which he frequently did in many scenes. So saying that he scrutinized over dance routines, which are much less important than the actual content inside on the show sounds a little contradictory to everything i've heard about the show. i dunno, anything is possible but that sounds a little much.

07-05-2003, 01:14 AM	#14
call-alluejah Hillman Graduate Frequent Poster Join Date: Mar 18, 2003 Location: 10 Stigwood Ave Posts: 215	I don't know about that, i guess i have to see again what Vanessa said in the opening. But if that's the case , then that would show that The Cosby show people themselves told Denise to bump Cliff because she was angry with him. Which wouldn't then be a feeling that she held back. And if it was a defiant move from Lisa Bonet then why did they leave it on the opening. The whole choreography thing is just too much. Again, the sponteneity of the show i think is a definite indication that not everything was choreographed. The links that you provided Janice only talk about the person, and just list the cosby show, not the full extent of what they did there. Bill wanted to show to be as real as possible. hence the grandmother's and grandfathers, and full extent into Bill's history as an athlete. But acting coaches doesn't seem to me like an example of him scrutinizing over everything. He was always dealing with kids in the show( whether they be huxtables or other kids) which i'm sure at some point needed a little coaching. He also had guest appearances with people that didn't act to much( ex. BB King, Dizzie Gillespie, Placido Damingo), the acting coaches could have been for them. Speech and Dialect coaches make sense also, because The cosby show had many different people on the show from different countries. Maybe they needed help with stuff,maybe the accent's made their dialogue indinstictive. There are countless amount of things the coaches could have been there for. Choreographing a celebration of the grandparents anniversary and choreographing an opening sequence is totally different. In the opening sequence it is the family being real just dancing to a song, for the grandparents it's a famiily putting on a show for the parents, it wouldn't be an anniversary present if everyone just danced anyway they wanted and lip synched any part of the song they wanted. The grandparents probably wouldn't want a present like that the second time because it would have looked disorganized and not thought of well.So it had to be choreographed or it wouldn't have been something special from the family. It showed that they got together and put something together as a family. Sorry, I hope that's not too long. Had to address alot.