Who should pay on a date? - Sitcoms Online Message Boards

Janice · 06-27-2003, 03:00 AM

Who should pay on a date?

It's an age-old question, with no single answer.

By Jeanne Sahadi, CNN/Money Senior Staff Writer

NEW YORK (CNN/Money) - Next time you want to start a verbal bonfire, ask a group of men and women who they think should pay on a date.

There are some modern-day guidelines, of course. But as with all "guidelines" they can seem like tips on kissing -- rote, not romantic.

Even so, they can be helpful as general parameters, or, at the very least, as argument starters.

Here's a quick primer from manners expert Letitia Baldrige. (Note to knee-jerk etiquette bashers: If you think Camelot's social secretary gives women a free pass to treat men like ATM machines, think again.)

You pursue, you pay. The person who initiates the date should pay. If one person has been doing the paying on the early dates and you continue seeing each other, then you should start alternating who pays when you go out.

Got means? Be generous. When one person's flush and the other's not, the person with the bigger bank account should do more of the treating. Not that the date without funds should never pay, Baldrige said. But at least in the beginning, it would be the more gracious thing to do for the person of means to refuse and offer to take care of the bill.

Remember "Annie Hall." When Woody Allen's Alvy goes on a first date with Diane Keaton's character in the classic romantic comedy, he kisses her before dinner to get it out of the way so they won't be tense all evening. Likewise, when you make a date with someone make clear who's paying, "so there's no awkwardness," Baldrige said.

What happens if you agree to meet for dinner and a movie and the phrase "I'd like to take you out" never enters the conversation? If one of you buys the tickets, the other person might say on the way to the restaurant, "I'd like to pick up dinner," Baldrige suggested.

For those who think men should pay first
Gail Prince, a dating coach and coauthor of the book, "Soul Dating to Soul Mating," thinks it's generally good advice that the person who pursues pays in the beginning.

She notes, however, that the expectation that the man will pay first is still in force among large pockets of daters, particularly those in their 40s and beyond. The woman feels more comfortable and nurtured when the man pays on the first date, she noted, and the man often feels like it's his role.

That squares with the findings of anthropologist Helen Fisher, author of "Anatomy of Love: The Natural History of Monogamy, Adultery and Divorce."

"Throughout nature, males have provided food for females in exchange for sex," Fisher said. Primordially speaking, she argued, humans are hard-wired to understand that exchange system in our mating rituals.

While you're choking on that, keep in mind Fisher is not suggesting that women should offer sex for dinner or that they never should pay on a date. Far from it. When a woman pays, that signals her interest and her power, and a man who lets himself be paid for signals his acceptance of the woman's interest and power.

That can be an important part of getting to know each other. But if serious courtship is the goal, a man paying on a first or second date advances that goal more quickly. "At some point almost all women want to know the man is willing to pay," said Fisher. "They want to know what his intentions are," she said.

Why going Dutch is (often) dopey
There are countless reasons some people think "going Dutch" is a perfect solution. But I'd argue there are very limited situations in which it makes sense.

Baldrige thinks separate checks are a good idea on a blind date, where no one is the pursuer per se. Splitting the bill might also be understandable for those 20-somethings with one foot in college and one foot in a low-paying job.

Beyond that, I think dividing up the cost is a practice best left to nights out with friends, colleagues and potential job contacts.

A date is different because the goal is different. By taking each other out, you're literally taking care of each other, however symbolically. In my book, that goes a long way toward contributing to the sense that you're a couple, not just two separate bodies temporarily taking up the same space.

Even if the date is a bust, paying or being paid for is just a more gracious act than tallying up costs at the end of an evening. It's a generous act, too.

Generosity is sexy. This may seem old-fashioned, gentlemen, and I certainly can't speak for all women. But I'm inclined to think one of three things if a man makes a habit of splitting the bill and never offering to pay: he's not serious, he's cheap or he's not assertive enough.

On the other hand, women who have a permanent aversion to picking up the check are not friends I'd be proud to have.

"Realize it's give and take," Baldrige said. "It's not all take, take, take."

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Jeanne Sahadi writes about personal finance for CNN/Money. She also appears regularly on CNNfn's "Your Money," which airs weeknights at 5 p.m. ET. For comments on this column or suggestions for future ones, please e-mail her at everydaymoney@cnnmoney.com.

TJL · 06-27-2003, 05:25 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Janice

"Throughout nature, males have provided food for females in exchange for sex," Fisher said.

Hey baby, can I buy you a ham?

BrandonS · 06-27-2003, 07:15 AM

I disagree with this article completely, because it's based on the incorrect idea that men and women are identical, and that, therefore, the whole thing devolves to a question of etiquette. Nature has designed men and women differently, not just physically, but psychologically, in terms of instincts, and in terms of skills in certain areas (for example, the average man is physically stronger than the average woman, whereas the average woman is better at interacting with children than the average man). The man should pay. The only exception is that when it gets to the point that the man and woman are seeing each other almost daily, then they can alternate paying if the woman's income is comparable to the man's. If other people want to do something different, that's their business, but this is the way I want to do it.

peter may · 06-27-2003, 08:15 AM

if itrs a first date, definately the man

Penny Lane · 06-27-2003, 10:09 AM

I like the old way better. The man pays!

¤I Love Clay Aiken¤ · 06-27-2003, 10:12 AM

I think whoever asks who out should pay. If I ask some guy out for the first time, of course Im going to pay-- Im the one who asked HIM! But if he asked, then he'd pay. But I would always offer to chip in no matter what.

JoJoJoJoJoJoJoJoJo · 06-27-2003, 10:19 AM

I'm old school, in the begininng I think the guy should pay... but me and my boyfriend have been dating for a while now, so we tend to take turns, but he still ends up paying for more of it, but he tells me that's how he wants it. Plus.. he makes a lot mor emoney than me, so I help him out here and there. It's pretty equal. But in the begininng, the guy should pay.

Brandon · 06-27-2003, 10:54 AM

I believe the male should pay...even if the girl asked HIM out...

OLdsk00L87 · 06-27-2003, 11:06 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by ¤MsConanOBrien¤
I think whoever asks who out should pay. If I ask some guy out for the first time, of course Im going to pay-- Im the one who asked HIM! But if he asked, then he'd pay. But I would always offer to chip in no matter what.

yea i agree

BrandonS · 06-27-2003, 11:08 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Brandon
I believe the male should pay...even if the girl asked HIM out...

Ditto. I really don't want the girl to pay, and when one offers, I generally thank her, and say that I'd rather do it. Occasionally, I go along with it to be polite, but I really don't like it.

Swimfan85 · 06-27-2003, 11:23 AM

I always offer to split the check, but my male partner usually does not accept it... (fine by me tho)

Kitt · 06-27-2003, 12:03 PM

What I liked in the article was the part about making it clear who would pay early on in the date. It's a drag to wonder or not be sure about that throughout the date.
I'm in the JoJoJo camp basically. The guy pays for starters but if a relationship blossoms there really is no need for the guy to continue to take on all of the paying. I think that's wrong on both ends. For the guy it becomes more of an ego thing which is a turnoff. For the girl it becomes a taking advantage thing and a little ol' me thing which is also a turnoff.

Penny Lane · 06-27-2003, 12:09 PM

Why does everything have to be so complicated?

THE GUY PAYS!

Case closed!

Tuesday Weld · 06-27-2003, 12:21 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by ¤MsConanOBrien¤
I think whoever asks who out should pay. If I ask some guy out for the first time, of course Im going to pay-- Im the one who asked HIM! But if he asked, then he'd pay. But I would always offer to chip in no matter what.

My thoughts,exactly.

TJL · 06-27-2003, 04:36 PM

My roommate recently broke up with a girl he had been dating for several months.
One of the things that bugged him was that he always paid for everything. Dinner, shows, movies, he always picked up the check.

Like many have already said, If a guy asks a girl out, he should pay for the first date, if they start going out, the bills should be shared.
I don't have to tell you folks that things are pretty expensive these days, and it's not fair for a guy to pick up the check all the time when his gal is making a decent living.

06-27-2003, 03:00 AM	#1
Janice Retired Admin - Hollywood Swingin' Forum Legend Join Date: Aug 03, 2001 Location: Beantown Posts: 36,388	Who should pay on a date? Who should pay on a date? It's an age-old question, with no single answer. By Jeanne Sahadi, CNN/Money Senior Staff Writer NEW YORK (CNN/Money) - Next time you want to start a verbal bonfire, ask a group of men and women who they think should pay on a date. There are some modern-day guidelines, of course. But as with all "guidelines" they can seem like tips on kissing -- rote, not romantic. Even so, they can be helpful as general parameters, or, at the very least, as argument starters. Here's a quick primer from manners expert Letitia Baldrige. (Note to knee-jerk etiquette bashers: If you think Camelot's social secretary gives women a free pass to treat men like ATM machines, think again.) You pursue, you pay. The person who initiates the date should pay. If one person has been doing the paying on the early dates and you continue seeing each other, then you should start alternating who pays when you go out. Got means? Be generous. When one person's flush and the other's not, the person with the bigger bank account should do more of the treating. Not that the date without funds should never pay, Baldrige said. But at least in the beginning, it would be the more gracious thing to do for the person of means to refuse and offer to take care of the bill. Remember "Annie Hall." When Woody Allen's Alvy goes on a first date with Diane Keaton's character in the classic romantic comedy, he kisses her before dinner to get it out of the way so they won't be tense all evening. Likewise, when you make a date with someone make clear who's paying, "so there's no awkwardness," Baldrige said. What happens if you agree to meet for dinner and a movie and the phrase "I'd like to take you out" never enters the conversation? If one of you buys the tickets, the other person might say on the way to the restaurant, "I'd like to pick up dinner," Baldrige suggested. For those who think men should pay first Gail Prince, a dating coach and coauthor of the book, "Soul Dating to Soul Mating," thinks it's generally good advice that the person who pursues pays in the beginning. She notes, however, that the expectation that the man will pay first is still in force among large pockets of daters, particularly those in their 40s and beyond. The woman feels more comfortable and nurtured when the man pays on the first date, she noted, and the man often feels like it's his role. That squares with the findings of anthropologist Helen Fisher, author of "Anatomy of Love: The Natural History of Monogamy, Adultery and Divorce." "Throughout nature, males have provided food for females in exchange for sex," Fisher said. Primordially speaking, she argued, humans are hard-wired to understand that exchange system in our mating rituals. While you're choking on that, keep in mind Fisher is not suggesting that women should offer sex for dinner or that they never should pay on a date. Far from it. When a woman pays, that signals her interest and her power, and a man who lets himself be paid for signals his acceptance of the woman's interest and power. That can be an important part of getting to know each other. But if serious courtship is the goal, a man paying on a first or second date advances that goal more quickly. "At some point almost all women want to know the man is willing to pay," said Fisher. "They want to know what his intentions are," she said. Why going Dutch is (often) dopey There are countless reasons some people think "going Dutch" is a perfect solution. But I'd argue there are very limited situations in which it makes sense. Baldrige thinks separate checks are a good idea on a blind date, where no one is the pursuer per se. Splitting the bill might also be understandable for those 20-somethings with one foot in college and one foot in a low-paying job. Beyond that, I think dividing up the cost is a practice best left to nights out with friends, colleagues and potential job contacts. A date is different because the goal is different. By taking each other out, you're literally taking care of each other, however symbolically. In my book, that goes a long way toward contributing to the sense that you're a couple, not just two separate bodies temporarily taking up the same space. Even if the date is a bust, paying or being paid for is just a more gracious act than tallying up costs at the end of an evening. It's a generous act, too. Generosity is sexy. This may seem old-fashioned, gentlemen, and I certainly can't speak for all women. But I'm inclined to think one of three things if a man makes a habit of splitting the bill and never offering to pay: he's not serious, he's cheap or he's not assertive enough. On the other hand, women who have a permanent aversion to picking up the check are not friends I'd be proud to have. "Realize it's give and take," Baldrige said. "It's not all take, take, take." -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Jeanne Sahadi writes about personal finance for CNN/Money. She also appears regularly on CNNfn's "Your Money," which airs weeknights at 5 p.m. ET. For comments on this column or suggestions for future ones, please e-mail her at everydaymoney@cnnmoney.com.

06-27-2003, 10:09 AM	#5
Penny Lane Butter Pie Forum Icon Join Date: Jul 03, 2001 Location: Beneath the blue suburban skies Posts: 51,261	I like the old way better. The man pays!
	__________________ Vulgarity is no substitute for wit- Lady Violet Crawley

06-27-2003, 10:12 AM	#6
¤I Love Clay Aiken¤ MISS APRIL Forum Addict Join Date: Jul 19, 2001 Location: Parsonsfield ME Shaws - Screwing my way up the employment ladder! Posts: 68,780	I think whoever asks who out should pay. If I ask some guy out for the first time, of course Im going to pay-- Im the one who asked HIM! But if he asked, then he'd pay. But I would always offer to chip in no matter what.
	__________________ DAVID COOK FOR AMERICAN IDOL

06-27-2003, 10:19 AM	#7
JoJoJoJoJoJoJoJoJo A and J Forum 3000 Club Member Join Date: May 31, 2001 Location: .S.C. Posts: 3,070	I'm old school, in the begininng I think the guy should pay... but me and my boyfriend have been dating for a while now, so we tend to take turns, but he still ends up paying for more of it, but he tells me that's how he wants it. Plus.. he makes a lot mor emoney than me, so I help him out here and there. It's pretty equal. But in the begininng, the guy should pay.
	__________________

06-27-2003, 10:54 AM	#8
Brandon Member Senior Member Join Date: Jan 03, 2003 Location: Hell Above The Soil Posts: 2,838	I believe the male should pay...even if the girl asked HIM out...
	__________________ <center> <img src=http://www.tvlinksonline.com/boards/attachment.php?s=&postid=875292> Break back another heart attack!

06-27-2003, 07:15 AM	#3
BrandonS Member Forum Fanatic Join Date: Aug 18, 2002 Posts: 8,824	I disagree with this article completely, because it's based on the incorrect idea that men and women are identical, and that, therefore, the whole thing devolves to a question of etiquette. Nature has designed men and women differently, not just physically, but psychologically, in terms of instincts, and in terms of skills in certain areas (for example, the average man is physically stronger than the average woman, whereas the average woman is better at interacting with children than the average man). The man should pay. The only exception is that when it gets to the point that the man and woman are seeing each other almost daily, then they can alternate paying if the woman's income is comparable to the man's. If other people want to do something different, that's their business, but this is the way I want to do it.

06-27-2003, 08:15 AM	#4
peter may The SO Limey Senior Member Join Date: Feb 26, 2002 Location: LONDON Posts: 1,883	if itrs a first date, definately the man

06-27-2003, 11:23 AM	#11
Swimfan85 Member Forum Veteran Join Date: Jul 04, 2001 Posts: 7,030	I always offer to split the check, but my male partner usually does not accept it... (fine by me tho)

06-27-2003, 12:03 PM	#12
Kitt James Dean Forum Veteran Join Date: Aug 16, 2001 Location: California Dreamin' Posts: 6,115	What I liked in the article was the part about making it clear who would pay early on in the date. It's a drag to wonder or not be sure about that throughout the date. I'm in the JoJoJo camp basically. The guy pays for starters but if a relationship blossoms there really is no need for the guy to continue to take on all of the paying. I think that's wrong on both ends. For the guy it becomes more of an ego thing which is a turnoff. For the girl it becomes a taking advantage thing and a little ol' me thing which is also a turnoff.

06-27-2003, 12:09 PM	#13
Penny Lane Butter Pie Forum Icon Join Date: Jul 03, 2001 Location: Beneath the blue suburban skies Posts: 51,261	Why does everything have to be so complicated? THE GUY PAYS! Case closed!

06-27-2003, 04:36 PM	#15
TJL Suburbanite Extrordinaire Forum Star Join Date: Dec 29, 2001 Location: New Jersey - the cradle of civilization Posts: 16,588	My roommate recently broke up with a girl he had been dating for several months. One of the things that bugged him was that he always paid for everything. Dinner, shows, movies, he always picked up the check. Like many have already said, If a guy asks a girl out, he should pay for the first date, if they start going out, the bills should be shared. I don't have to tell you folks that things are pretty expensive these days, and it's not fair for a guy to pick up the check all the time when his gal is making a decent living.