Later Episodes....How Bad Is It Going To Get? - Sitcoms Online Message Boards

pilotguy · 05-18-2003, 11:57 PM

I had a rather disturbing discussion with a friend of mine today....

While, I'm a fairly new "Wings" fan, he's been a long-time viewer for years.

When I told him how much I enjoy the "Wings" shows that I've been seeing, he said, "Yeah, but just wait until they start showing the last couple of seasons...THOSE episodes really STINK! They're TERRIBLE!".

Now I realize that it's common knowledge that the last couple of seasons of "Wings" aren't as funny as previous seasons, but just how bad can these later shows be?
Even if they're not up to the shows of previous seasons, I just can't imagine them being THAT bad.

I hope that they're not going to be like the last couple of seasons of "Taxi". I LOVED "Taxi" until the last couple of seasons....those final seasons were filled with dreary, unfunny episodes which were actually PAINFUL to sit through.....

I hope that "Wings" doesn't end up like THAT!

So fill me in, veteran viewers....What's coming down the pike as far as later "Wings" episodes go? How bad ARE things going to be getting?

c5guy · 05-19-2003, 12:45 AM

Everyone has their own likes & dislikes......shouldn't be all that bad as you will not have to wait an entire week for each offering of Wings as when it was originally airing, but there are major changes that take place that interupt the character dynamics that you are currently enjoying.

Lowell will be gone as will Alex. Helen's whinning sister Casey shows up, who has gone from riches to rags. No more chasing or sexual tension between Joe & Helen as they settle down together, and Joey picks Pacey over Dawson. Oh wait, that's another show..........

losthighway · 05-19-2003, 01:52 AM

I think that's a real good way to look at it.......the bottom line is everybody has their own opinions and that's all it is, one person's opinion. Me, I enjoyed the show from the first episode to the last. Of course the show had peaks and valleys and I think the show hit it's stride in season 3 and was the most consistent through season 5.

But I still enjoyed seasons 6 and 7. (I never considered Wings an 8 season show since the first season only consisted of 6 or 7 episodes)

I won't bore you to tears and break down the last two seasons episode by episode, but I'll make a quick top 5 list of my favorites for the last two years.

5. Single and Hating It: On their anniversary, Joe and Helen get trapped at a singles mixer

4. Lynch Party: News of Helen's ex fiancee reminds her that she never broke off the engagement.

3. When a man loves a donut: Brian is forced to go to "eat-a-holics" as he has trouble adjusting to life with Joe as a married man.

2. Life Could be a dream: Vignettes show how Brian, Joe, Casey and Helen imagined their lives would turn out when they were kids.

(some have discussed this episode on the board already...and some didn't like it, but i liked it alot. Brian as a fake James Bond is very funny I think, as well as some of the other gags)

1. Final Approach: Series finale

(The final episode, I think it is one the best endings for a sitcom ever.)

Like I said, the show was the most consistent in the mid years, but I don't think it dropped off dramatically. But it will be interesting to see your reaction after you get to see the final two years. Maybe you'll be horribly disappointed, then again, maybe not.

pilotguy · 05-19-2003, 02:12 AM

A thought on the "Joe Married To Helen" issue:

Some people have criticized Joe and Helen being married on the show, and say that it destroyed the interesting sexual tension that they had.

That may be true, and I've only seen a couple of the episodes where they're a married couple (I saw them on the marathon), but I think that having Joe and Helen get married was a logical progression for the show and added a touch of credibility to the characters.

After all, what if the series had continued for all those years and in the final season Joe and Helen HADN'T gotten married, but were still playing those cutesie "cat and mouse" games? I think that many of us would find that as frustrating as Ross and Rachel on "Friends"....I lost interest in THAT couple YEARS ago!

Yes, the relationships and characters on "Wings" may have changed over the years, but that's how things work in life. I give the series credit for not stagnating in a dull but comfortable rut season after season.

losthighway · 05-19-2003, 02:36 AM

That's true Pilotguy. Many shows have been built around a strong sexual chemistry between characters and it has been fun for the audience to watch the development take place. Just a few examples are Sam and Diane on Cheers, to a lesser extent Ross and Rachel on Friends, Ed and Carol on Ed, etc...)

The point being, part of what creates interest in a show is the spark and attraction between characters. And that sexual chemistry can drive the show. But at the same time, you have to give the audience a certain "payoff" and once you bring the characters together, then what? You can't sustain that spark after the characters come together romatically. But at the same time, you can't just keep the attraction game going on forever either. Eventually the audience will tire of it, just like you suggested with Ross and Rachel. And, just like you said, that's life, people naturally move to different stages, unless it's normal for couples to court and date for 12 years before they marry.

I still think all in all, the Joe-Helen story line worked pretty well, even after the marriage. I knew once they married the series wouldn't be on for too many more seasons, and I knew the characters wouldn't be the same, but they still had some fun plot lines with them as a couple.

But you can't maintain that same edge once they marry. Niles and Daphne on Frasier are another example where the chemistry just isn't the same now that there is no tension over whether Niles will ever win her heart.

AgtSkye · 05-19-2003, 05:29 AM

Although 97 seems like an eternity ago to me, I remember disliking most everything after Casey came on the show. I mean it wasn't just her, but that was a major part of it. I did however stick with the show, I suppose it was still enjoyable to me in some way, but it was pretty bad IMO.
Most people always say that the middle of the series was the best, and I do agree with this, but I am one who really, really liked the earlier episodes too. The Pilot is one of my faves, and I also remember liking the first epsiode from the second season, The Puppetmaster. One that made me laugh hard was Sports and Leisure where Roy explodes while playing Trivial Pursuit with everyone after Lowell exasperates him. That was soooooo great.

I can't wait till they get back to the first and second seasons again.

Anne

losthighway · 05-19-2003, 01:06 PM

The way I always looked at it is season 1 & 2 were hit and miss, season 3, 4 & 5 were the most consistent, and season 6 & 7 were hit and miss. If you wanted to break it down in terms of quality, (3,4, 5) were the best, (1,2) were the second best and then (6, 7).

It's always a tricky thing to explain because it's not like I feel the last two years were outstanding. But I have never felt the show sucked or was awful as has been suggested by some. I think you can take any sitcom that runs for 6 or more seasons and point out seasons that were weak. I think Friends, for example, has had years that were pretty bad. And I just always felt Wings dipped, but they never took a huge nose dive. But again, it's just one persons opinion.

nantucket_wings · 05-19-2003, 01:46 PM

I myself loved wings from episode 1 to the very last ... even when the plots were a little boring, I enjoyed them because my favorite actors and actresses were acting in them ...

Quote:

Originally posted by losthighway
The way I always looked at it is season 1 & 2 were hit and miss, season 3, 4 & 5 were the most consistent, and season 6 & 7 were hit and miss. If you wanted to break it down in terms of quality, (3,4, 5) were the best, (1,2) were the second best and then (6, 7).

It's always a tricky thing to explain because it's not like I feel the last two years were outstanding. But I have never felt the show sucked or was awful as has been suggested by some. I think you can take any sitcom that runs for 6 or more seasons and point out seasons that were weak. I think Friends, for example, has had years that were pretty bad. And I just always felt Wings dipped, but they never took a huge nose dive. But again, it's just one persons opinion.

Adamantium · 05-19-2003, 04:12 PM

I like the last two seasons. However, there is a serious change. Mainly with Lowell gone (him being my favorite character) their replacement for him wasn't very good and then he was only in half the episodes before vanishing off the face of the TV Earth. I rather enjoyed Joe and Helen being married. That didn't bother me. I just think Roy was exagerated a bit. So was Fay. And Antonio was so pathetic, I felt sorry for him more than I laughed at him. But there were some great episodes between 1995-1997. Plus I think Helen looked her best in the last couple seasons. One thing I noticed is that it was always Joe and Helen followed by Brian and Casey. Brian and Casey weren't even dating, nor did they like eachother, yet they always ended up hanging out together.

All in all, I enjoyed the entire series. The main thing I didn't like about the later years was the absence of Lowell. The rest seemed normal for Wings.

Krista2882 · 05-20-2003, 02:23 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by pilotguy
A thought on the "Joe Married To Helen" issue:

Some people have criticized Joe and Helen being married on the show, and say that it destroyed the interesting sexual tension that they had.

That may be true, and I've only seen a couple of the episodes where they're a married couple (I saw them on the marathon), but I think that having Joe and Helen get married was a logical progression for the show and added a touch of credibility to the characters.

After all, what if the series had continued for all those years and in the final season Joe and Helen HADN'T gotten married, but were still playing those cutesie "cat and mouse" games? I think that many of us would find that as frustrating as Ross and Rachel on "Friends"....I lost interest in THAT couple YEARS ago!

Yes, the relationships and characters on "Wings" may have changed over the years, but that's how things work in life. I give the series credit for not stagnating in a dull but comfortable rut season after season.

yeah, I agree with you on that.

I also am a first-time viewer of Wings. the only later episodes I saw were during the marathon... and I agree that Joe and Helen should have gotten married! I mean, they went through the whole series with there always being something between the two of them-whether it was when they were dating, or not dating, and the sexual tension between them all the time, etc etc etc... i think every viewer of the show was wondering "when are these two finally gonna get together again?!" It would have sucked if they ended the show without them ever getting married!
And I did see some episodes with Helen's sister.. i thought she was a little annoying, but hell- i thought Lowell was annoying until I had seen about 20 episodes. lol. now I love him. hehe
So who knows.. I know a lot of people weren't fond of the last couple of seasons... the show will change when Lowell leaves, and then when Joe and Helen get married, but TV shows have to evolve so they don't get boring. I'm just going to keep watcing and make up my mind for myself...

Ice Cream Man · 05-20-2003, 07:14 PM

For me, the show lost something when it lost Lowell. Not that I started disliking it it or anything, it seemed more like a well-prepared dish that's missing a single important ingredient. The show was still terrific, but was missing something. The fact that the writers tried to replace Lowell with an equally unintelligent and Lowell-ish handyman was a bad decision by the writers, IMO. The new guy needed his own personality and following, not traipsing in the footsteps of Thomas Haden Church.

I disagree that the episodes following Joe and Helen's marriage stank. I love the fact that Joe and Helen got married and I agree that it's the natural progression of the show. They did lots of great episodes with them as a married couple.

I liked Amy Yasbeck well enough (Casey). I liked the lady who played Alex better, but such is show biz.

I think it's hit or miss on the episodes of the last two seasons. There will be some episodes that are really good, and some that you may think are just "okay". There are episodes like that through the life of the show, not just the last two seasons.

05-18-2003, 11:57 PM	#1
pilotguy Member Senior Member Join Date: Apr 09, 2003 Posts: 1,305	Later Episodes....How Bad Is It Going To Get? I had a rather disturbing discussion with a friend of mine today.... While, I'm a fairly new "Wings" fan, he's been a long-time viewer for years. When I told him how much I enjoy the "Wings" shows that I've been seeing, he said, "Yeah, but just wait until they start showing the last couple of seasons...THOSE episodes really STINK! They're TERRIBLE!". Now I realize that it's common knowledge that the last couple of seasons of "Wings" aren't as funny as previous seasons, but just how bad can these later shows be? Even if they're not up to the shows of previous seasons, I just can't imagine them being THAT bad. I hope that they're not going to be like the last couple of seasons of "Taxi". I LOVED "Taxi" until the last couple of seasons....those final seasons were filled with dreary, unfunny episodes which were actually PAINFUL to sit through..... I hope that "Wings" doesn't end up like THAT! So fill me in, veteran viewers....What's coming down the pike as far as later "Wings" episodes go? How bad ARE things going to be getting?

05-19-2003, 05:29 AM	#6
AgtSkye Jedi knightess Frequent Poster Join Date: May 04, 2003 Location: a long time ago in a galaxy far, far away Posts: 185	Although 97 seems like an eternity ago to me, I remember disliking most everything after Casey came on the show. I mean it wasn't just her, but that was a major part of it. I did however stick with the show, I suppose it was still enjoyable to me in some way, but it was pretty bad IMO. Most people always say that the middle of the series was the best, and I do agree with this, but I am one who really, really liked the earlier episodes too. The Pilot is one of my faves, and I also remember liking the first epsiode from the second season, The Puppetmaster. One that made me laugh hard was Sports and Leisure where Roy explodes while playing Trivial Pursuit with everyone after Lowell exasperates him. That was soooooo great. I can't wait till they get back to the first and second seasons again. Anne
	__________________ En það besta sem Guð hefur skapað er nýr dagur But the best thing God has created is a new day ~ Sigur Rós

05-19-2003, 12:45 AM	#2
c5guy Member Occasional Poster Join Date: Apr 16, 2003 Location: Lone Star Posts: 75	Everyone has their own likes & dislikes......shouldn't be all that bad as you will not have to wait an entire week for each offering of Wings as when it was originally airing, but there are major changes that take place that interupt the character dynamics that you are currently enjoying. Lowell will be gone as will Alex. Helen's whinning sister Casey shows up, who has gone from riches to rags. No more chasing or sexual tension between Joe & Helen as they settle down together, and Joey picks Pacey over Dawson. Oh wait, that's another show..........

05-19-2003, 01:52 AM	#3
losthighway Member Frequent Poster Join Date: Apr 14, 2003 Posts: 370	I think that's a real good way to look at it.......the bottom line is everybody has their own opinions and that's all it is, one person's opinion. Me, I enjoyed the show from the first episode to the last. Of course the show had peaks and valleys and I think the show hit it's stride in season 3 and was the most consistent through season 5. But I still enjoyed seasons 6 and 7. (I never considered Wings an 8 season show since the first season only consisted of 6 or 7 episodes) I won't bore you to tears and break down the last two seasons episode by episode, but I'll make a quick top 5 list of my favorites for the last two years. 5. Single and Hating It: On their anniversary, Joe and Helen get trapped at a singles mixer 4. Lynch Party: News of Helen's ex fiancee reminds her that she never broke off the engagement. 3. When a man loves a donut: Brian is forced to go to "eat-a-holics" as he has trouble adjusting to life with Joe as a married man. 2. Life Could be a dream: Vignettes show how Brian, Joe, Casey and Helen imagined their lives would turn out when they were kids. (some have discussed this episode on the board already...and some didn't like it, but i liked it alot. Brian as a fake James Bond is very funny I think, as well as some of the other gags) 1. Final Approach: Series finale (The final episode, I think it is one the best endings for a sitcom ever.) Like I said, the show was the most consistent in the mid years, but I don't think it dropped off dramatically. But it will be interesting to see your reaction after you get to see the final two years. Maybe you'll be horribly disappointed, then again, maybe not.

05-19-2003, 02:12 AM	#4
pilotguy Member Senior Member Join Date: Apr 09, 2003 Posts: 1,305	A thought on the "Joe Married To Helen" issue: Some people have criticized Joe and Helen being married on the show, and say that it destroyed the interesting sexual tension that they had. That may be true, and I've only seen a couple of the episodes where they're a married couple (I saw them on the marathon), but I think that having Joe and Helen get married was a logical progression for the show and added a touch of credibility to the characters. After all, what if the series had continued for all those years and in the final season Joe and Helen HADN'T gotten married, but were still playing those cutesie "cat and mouse" games? I think that many of us would find that as frustrating as Ross and Rachel on "Friends"....I lost interest in THAT couple YEARS ago! Yes, the relationships and characters on "Wings" may have changed over the years, but that's how things work in life. I give the series credit for not stagnating in a dull but comfortable rut season after season.

05-19-2003, 02:36 AM	#5
losthighway Member Frequent Poster Join Date: Apr 14, 2003 Posts: 370	That's true Pilotguy. Many shows have been built around a strong sexual chemistry between characters and it has been fun for the audience to watch the development take place. Just a few examples are Sam and Diane on Cheers, to a lesser extent Ross and Rachel on Friends, Ed and Carol on Ed, etc...) The point being, part of what creates interest in a show is the spark and attraction between characters. And that sexual chemistry can drive the show. But at the same time, you have to give the audience a certain "payoff" and once you bring the characters together, then what? You can't sustain that spark after the characters come together romatically. But at the same time, you can't just keep the attraction game going on forever either. Eventually the audience will tire of it, just like you suggested with Ross and Rachel. And, just like you said, that's life, people naturally move to different stages, unless it's normal for couples to court and date for 12 years before they marry. I still think all in all, the Joe-Helen story line worked pretty well, even after the marriage. I knew once they married the series wouldn't be on for too many more seasons, and I knew the characters wouldn't be the same, but they still had some fun plot lines with them as a couple. But you can't maintain that same edge once they marry. Niles and Daphne on Frasier are another example where the chemistry just isn't the same now that there is no tension over whether Niles will ever win her heart.

05-19-2003, 01:06 PM	#7
losthighway Member Frequent Poster Join Date: Apr 14, 2003 Posts: 370	The way I always looked at it is season 1 & 2 were hit and miss, season 3, 4 & 5 were the most consistent, and season 6 & 7 were hit and miss. If you wanted to break it down in terms of quality, (3,4, 5) were the best, (1,2) were the second best and then (6, 7). It's always a tricky thing to explain because it's not like I feel the last two years were outstanding. But I have never felt the show sucked or was awful as has been suggested by some. I think you can take any sitcom that runs for 6 or more seasons and point out seasons that were weak. I think Friends, for example, has had years that were pretty bad. And I just always felt Wings dipped, but they never took a huge nose dive. But again, it's just one persons opinion.

05-19-2003, 04:12 PM	#9
Adamantium TVAdam No More Forum Veteran Join Date: Sep 11, 2002 Location: Springfield, Ohio Posts: 7,836	I like the last two seasons. However, there is a serious change. Mainly with Lowell gone (him being my favorite character) their replacement for him wasn't very good and then he was only in half the episodes before vanishing off the face of the TV Earth. I rather enjoyed Joe and Helen being married. That didn't bother me. I just think Roy was exagerated a bit. So was Fay. And Antonio was so pathetic, I felt sorry for him more than I laughed at him. But there were some great episodes between 1995-1997. Plus I think Helen looked her best in the last couple seasons. One thing I noticed is that it was always Joe and Helen followed by Brian and Casey. Brian and Casey weren't even dating, nor did they like eachother, yet they always ended up hanging out together. All in all, I enjoyed the entire series. The main thing I didn't like about the later years was the absence of Lowell. The rest seemed normal for Wings.

05-20-2003, 07:14 PM	#11
Ice Cream Man DieHard Wing Fan Frequent Poster Join Date: Apr 30, 2003 Posts: 107	For me, the show lost something when it lost Lowell. Not that I started disliking it it or anything, it seemed more like a well-prepared dish that's missing a single important ingredient. The show was still terrific, but was missing something. The fact that the writers tried to replace Lowell with an equally unintelligent and Lowell-ish handyman was a bad decision by the writers, IMO. The new guy needed his own personality and following, not traipsing in the footsteps of Thomas Haden Church. I disagree that the episodes following Joe and Helen's marriage stank. I love the fact that Joe and Helen got married and I agree that it's the natural progression of the show. They did lots of great episodes with them as a married couple. I liked Amy Yasbeck well enough (Casey). I liked the lady who played Alex better, but such is show biz. I think it's hit or miss on the episodes of the last two seasons. There will be some episodes that are really good, and some that you may think are just "okay". There are episodes like that through the life of the show, not just the last two seasons.