Poll: Why did viewers stop watching Frasier this season? - Sitcoms Online Message Boards

drcrane · 05-14-2003, 09:51 PM

Poll: Why did viewers stop watching Frasier this season?

Valma · 05-19-2003, 05:15 PM

Why did some viewers stop watching? Several reasons perhaps.

1) It was constantly pounded into their collective heads that the show had "jumped the shark" by reviewers in the major media outlets (some of whom work for magazines and Newspapers owned by companies in competition with Paramount). If you repeat a lie enough times, a lot of people will begin to believe it as the truth. Some people will believe anything in print or one the internet, rather than check it out for themselves. I contacted one reviewer who consistently dissed Frasier and he admitted that he hadn't even watched the show in over 4 YEARS!!!! and yet was telling everyone that it was horrible this season! :-(

2) NBC (for financial reasons of ownership) deserted Frasier in favour of programmes that they have a greater percentage of money in (bigger return - even if those shows don't have the pulling power of Frasier a couple of years ago). They hyped shows like W&G (which is owned by NBC) to the roof and gave Frasier the big brush off (no skin off their nose if it peters out now).

3) Even Paramount didn't really care that much if Frasier fades out. They can't make any more from syndicated sales now that the show has gone over 120 episodes (a magic number for them that they were waiting for).

4)NBC for aformentioned reasons also surrounded Frasier with absolute dregs and leftovers for the last couple of years so it has had to support Tuesday night all on its own without any decent lead in's or post show interests. Any time a show remotely started to show potential they skipped it over to Thursday (e.g. Scrubs). Wouldn't want people watching something interesting before Frasier to wet their appetites, would they? Funnily enough NBC denied this last year and now this year have finally admitted they did just this and have swore to change their ways for the last season (I think it has something to do with a potential sequel).

5) NBC also made a concerted effort NOT to promote Frasier (they got far less promo tiem than other shows). Why spend any money on a show, when they don't get as big as bang for their buck as they do for W&G (again which they own - thus making it a cheaper show to do).

Is it any wonder the show has lost viewers. The only show that was treated more poorly was "Just Shoot Me" and NBC canceled that. They can't do that with Frasier as easily (contracts) but they can make sure that there wasn't a snowball's chance in hell that it went a minute longer than the current contracts allowed. Mission accomplished and I hope they are proud of themselves!
I refused to listen to the critics and found this season just as enjoyable as ever and know that when it is all over I will miss it terribly and will save my pennies and buy the DVD to watch over and over again! :-))

drcrane · 05-19-2003, 06:51 PM

Thanks for your insightful reply to the poll. I agree with you on a lot of points. I really think that this season has turned out to better than even the past 2. It had been a little stale in the past but it's getting more exciting and creative now. I'm really laughing more now than I had been in the past. They brought back Christopher Lloyd, one of the better writers.
I agree that the critics are very negative towards Frasier. It seems to me that both Friends and Seinfeld are both overrated. Seinfeld was good but not quite as good the last few seasons it was on. But critics never bashed it for the dumb or bad episodes they've had. If you want really smart shows, both Cheers and Frasier are the ones, Seinfeld ocassionally. When Frasier had the parking lot episode, they wrote the show off. Boy did they bash it and tried to promote it's competitor, "Life With Bonnie;" please give me a break. She can't act if her life depended on it.
Hopefully, the move to Thursdays, over the next few weeks, will help Frasier out a bit. I do my part in telling people how great the show is. It is still top quality.
The fans of the show just have to get the word out about how it's still top notch quality.
I am recording Frasier shows on the VCR. This way I can laugh and enjoy the shows since they're very classy and intelligent, not loaded with slapstick. I will always enjoy Frasier even after it departs the network.
NBC need to wake up and realize that Law and Order is it's best asset. If they would put that on as a lead in before Frasier, they can boost their ratings big time, especially when American Idol steals the hour. They need to be smart and wake up. Fox is the reason why Frasier is down this season. I would love to see a good lead in rather than those dumb sitcoms preceeding it.

Frasierfan1983 · 05-19-2003, 07:18 PM

Yes, it does appear that Frasier is a victim of its own success. But may I suggest another way this has happened...

As far as the script-writing is concerned, I do believe that after ten years (usually less than that) there comes a point when a show is certain to start going in directions that annoy the critics, and, more seriously, its most loyal fans. Obviously, twists in the storylines are needed to keep it fresh, but they are always a risk. And pretty soon the writers are at the stage where they are either criticised for being too radical or, alternatively, accused of reusing old storylines.

Even back at the time Season Six ended, I remember reading a review by a critic who had always been a fan of Frasier, but was uneased at the idea of Roz sleeping with Bulldog, accusing the writers of pushing the characters into situations that they just didn't fit. By the end of Series Nine, Roz has slept with Frasier. (I couldn't find a review this time, probaby because the critics weren't even writing about this show anymore and had moved on to newer sitcoms.) No way would I think of that as the natural direction of the show - it just made it look as if ideas were running low.

There have been some great new regular characters which have kept the show fresh, and there are still some great episodes. But remember the time when every other critic was saying "Frasier is like a fine wine, it only gets better with age"? Is there anyone who can honestly say that is still the case?

Valma · 05-19-2003, 08:59 PM

Yes, me! :-) (I really don't care what "critics" say - they are paid to write opinions by the owners of the corporations that they work for, so they have their own agenda to fill, IMO).

I enjoy the show just as much, if not more, today than I did in the past (and I have watched *all* the episodes about a thousand times!). The characters have more depth now, they have a history, the scripts that are top notch are fabulous and mean so much more to me now because I *know* these characters. Yes, when the show was brand new it had the element of discovery, but for a seasoned show there are other things to enjoy (you can't ask a show of 10 seasons to do the same thing to you as it did in the first year). It is like any long lasting relationship - as your feelings deepen the enjoyment that you get from it broaden and changes to include things that replace the "new" aspect. It is a dynamic that grows with the show and I wouldn't want it any other way. Critics can't and never will understand this aspect of the show, so I really don't care if someone doesn't use the cliche "gets better with age" any more. For all the reasons that I outlined in my previous post I think the critics (and the network) have given Frasier the shaft in recent years and purposely tried to poison people's minds against it. Some have fallen for it - I haven't! :-)

Tourmaline · 05-23-2003, 02:08 PM

For me the only really flat episode this season was the one early on where Frasier insisted on waiting at the car park barrier to get his full ticket-price worth. Completely unrealistic - not a scratch anywhere on Frasier, Niles or the car, not a bruise, no swearing whatsoever.

Also this season they've managed to develop the character of Daphne's mother well, which I would never have believed possible at the end of season 9.

lilith/frasier · 05-26-2003, 01:28 PM

the only reason i stoped waching as much was because i see no lilith and frasier getting toghether thing but besides that i think it also has to do with julie but manly LILITH

Valma · 06-01-2003, 07:51 AM

I can see where you might have "wishful thinking" about Lilith and Frasier getting together, but I can't believe that you honestly believed that there was a reasonalble chance that that would happen on the show (and as a result cut back on viewing it!!!). If you have been paying attention at all over the years, it is perfectly clear since about Season One that it just isn't going to happen. The writers have always shown that Frasier has had problems with letting go of Lilith (mainly sexually - in his *head* he knows he will never go back to her) and that the plots that surround those two are mainly concerned with showing how Frasier deals with the *reality* of that situation. I can't recall any programme that actually indicated to the audience that there was any *real* hope that Frasier and Lilith were going to get together in the end (mainly it has been Frasier finally figuring out why getting together isn't in the cards for various reasons). If you can, just name it - I'd be interested in knowing which one did. You may *want* them to get together and think that they should in your *opinion*, but that is a far cry from what has been shown over the years.

05-14-2003, 09:51 PM	#1
drcrane Member Occasional Poster Join Date: Jan 28, 2003 Posts: 38	Poll: Why did viewers stop watching Frasier this season? Poll: Why did viewers stop watching Frasier this season?

05-19-2003, 06:51 PM	#3
drcrane Member Occasional Poster Join Date: Jan 28, 2003 Posts: 38	Thanks for your insightful reply to the poll. I agree with you on a lot of points. I really think that this season has turned out to better than even the past 2. It had been a little stale in the past but it's getting more exciting and creative now. I'm really laughing more now than I had been in the past. They brought back Christopher Lloyd, one of the better writers. I agree that the critics are very negative towards Frasier. It seems to me that both Friends and Seinfeld are both overrated. Seinfeld was good but not quite as good the last few seasons it was on. But critics never bashed it for the dumb or bad episodes they've had. If you want really smart shows, both Cheers and Frasier are the ones, Seinfeld ocassionally. When Frasier had the parking lot episode, they wrote the show off. Boy did they bash it and tried to promote it's competitor, "Life With Bonnie;" please give me a break. She can't act if her life depended on it. Hopefully, the move to Thursdays, over the next few weeks, will help Frasier out a bit. I do my part in telling people how great the show is. It is still top quality. The fans of the show just have to get the word out about how it's still top notch quality. I am recording Frasier shows on the VCR. This way I can laugh and enjoy the shows since they're very classy and intelligent, not loaded with slapstick. I will always enjoy Frasier even after it departs the network. NBC need to wake up and realize that Law and Order is it's best asset. If they would put that on as a lead in before Frasier, they can boost their ratings big time, especially when American Idol steals the hour. They need to be smart and wake up. Fox is the reason why Frasier is down this season. I would love to see a good lead in rather than those dumb sitcoms preceeding it.
	Last edited by drcrane; 05-19-2003 at 07:03 PM.

05-19-2003, 07:18 PM	#4
Frasierfan1983 Member Frequent Poster Join Date: Aug 16, 2002 Location: UK Posts: 169	Yes, it does appear that Frasier is a victim of its own success. But may I suggest another way this has happened... As far as the script-writing is concerned, I do believe that after ten years (usually less than that) there comes a point when a show is certain to start going in directions that annoy the critics, and, more seriously, its most loyal fans. Obviously, twists in the storylines are needed to keep it fresh, but they are always a risk. And pretty soon the writers are at the stage where they are either criticised for being too radical or, alternatively, accused of reusing old storylines. Even back at the time Season Six ended, I remember reading a review by a critic who had always been a fan of Frasier, but was uneased at the idea of Roz sleeping with Bulldog, accusing the writers of pushing the characters into situations that they just didn't fit. By the end of Series Nine, Roz has slept with Frasier. (I couldn't find a review this time, probaby because the critics weren't even writing about this show anymore and had moved on to newer sitcoms.) No way would I think of that as the natural direction of the show - it just made it look as if ideas were running low. There have been some great new regular characters which have kept the show fresh, and there are still some great episodes. But remember the time when every other critic was saying "Frasier is like a fine wine, it only gets better with age"? Is there anyone who can honestly say that is still the case?
	__________________ Martin: Can you imagine? Lilith's and my kid would be brother to you and Niles AND Freddie. Frasier: What are you talking about? Martin: And if you and Lilith got back together, you'd be his step-father AND his brother, and Niles would be your son... and his own uncle! It's almost worth doing just so that I can tell the story!

05-26-2003, 01:28 PM	#7
lilith/frasier britt cheers freak Occasional Poster Join Date: May 11, 2003 Location: my computer Posts: 69	lilith the only reason i stoped waching as much was because i see no lilith and frasier getting toghether thing but besides that i think it also has to do with julie but manly LILITH
	__________________ bebe neuwirth rocks lilith is really cool molly and britt: friths biggest fans

05-19-2003, 05:15 PM	#2
Valma Member Occasional Poster Join Date: Nov 09, 2002 Posts: 95	Why did some viewers stop watching? Several reasons perhaps. 1) It was constantly pounded into their collective heads that the show had "jumped the shark" by reviewers in the major media outlets (some of whom work for magazines and Newspapers owned by companies in competition with Paramount). If you repeat a lie enough times, a lot of people will begin to believe it as the truth. Some people will believe anything in print or one the internet, rather than check it out for themselves. I contacted one reviewer who consistently dissed Frasier and he admitted that he hadn't even watched the show in over 4 YEARS!!!! and yet was telling everyone that it was horrible this season! :-( 2) NBC (for financial reasons of ownership) deserted Frasier in favour of programmes that they have a greater percentage of money in (bigger return - even if those shows don't have the pulling power of Frasier a couple of years ago). They hyped shows like W&G (which is owned by NBC) to the roof and gave Frasier the big brush off (no skin off their nose if it peters out now). 3) Even Paramount didn't really care that much if Frasier fades out. They can't make any more from syndicated sales now that the show has gone over 120 episodes (a magic number for them that they were waiting for). 4)NBC for aformentioned reasons also surrounded Frasier with absolute dregs and leftovers for the last couple of years so it has had to support Tuesday night all on its own without any decent lead in's or post show interests. Any time a show remotely started to show potential they skipped it over to Thursday (e.g. Scrubs). Wouldn't want people watching something interesting before Frasier to wet their appetites, would they? Funnily enough NBC denied this last year and now this year have finally admitted they did just this and have swore to change their ways for the last season (I think it has something to do with a potential sequel). 5) NBC also made a concerted effort NOT to promote Frasier (they got far less promo tiem than other shows). Why spend any money on a show, when they don't get as big as bang for their buck as they do for W&G (again which they own - thus making it a cheaper show to do). Is it any wonder the show has lost viewers. The only show that was treated more poorly was "Just Shoot Me" and NBC canceled that. They can't do that with Frasier as easily (contracts) but they can make sure that there wasn't a snowball's chance in hell that it went a minute longer than the current contracts allowed. Mission accomplished and I hope they are proud of themselves! I refused to listen to the critics and found this season just as enjoyable as ever and know that when it is all over I will miss it terribly and will save my pennies and buy the DVD to watch over and over again! :-))

05-19-2003, 08:59 PM	#5
Valma Member Occasional Poster Join Date: Nov 09, 2002 Posts: 95	Yes, me! :-) (I really don't care what "critics" say - they are paid to write opinions by the owners of the corporations that they work for, so they have their own agenda to fill, IMO). I enjoy the show just as much, if not more, today than I did in the past (and I have watched all the episodes about a thousand times!). The characters have more depth now, they have a history, the scripts that are top notch are fabulous and mean so much more to me now because I know these characters. Yes, when the show was brand new it had the element of discovery, but for a seasoned show there are other things to enjoy (you can't ask a show of 10 seasons to do the same thing to you as it did in the first year). It is like any long lasting relationship - as your feelings deepen the enjoyment that you get from it broaden and changes to include things that replace the "new" aspect. It is a dynamic that grows with the show and I wouldn't want it any other way. Critics can't and never will understand this aspect of the show, so I really don't care if someone doesn't use the cliche "gets better with age" any more. For all the reasons that I outlined in my previous post I think the critics (and the network) have given Frasier the shaft in recent years and purposely tried to poison people's minds against it. Some have fallen for it - I haven't! :-)

05-23-2003, 02:08 PM	#6
Tourmaline Member Occasional Poster Join Date: Mar 10, 2002 Location: West Midlands, UK Posts: 71	For me the only really flat episode this season was the one early on where Frasier insisted on waiting at the car park barrier to get his full ticket-price worth. Completely unrealistic - not a scratch anywhere on Frasier, Niles or the car, not a bruise, no swearing whatsoever. Also this season they've managed to develop the character of Daphne's mother well, which I would never have believed possible at the end of season 9.

06-01-2003, 07:51 AM	#8
Valma Member Occasional Poster Join Date: Nov 09, 2002 Posts: 95	I can see where you might have "wishful thinking" about Lilith and Frasier getting together, but I can't believe that you honestly believed that there was a reasonalble chance that that would happen on the show (and as a result cut back on viewing it!!!). If you have been paying attention at all over the years, it is perfectly clear since about Season One that it just isn't going to happen. The writers have always shown that Frasier has had problems with letting go of Lilith (mainly sexually - in his head he knows he will never go back to her) and that the plots that surround those two are mainly concerned with showing how Frasier deals with the reality of that situation. I can't recall any programme that actually indicated to the audience that there was any real hope that Frasier and Lilith were going to get together in the end (mainly it has been Frasier finally figuring out why getting together isn't in the cards for various reasons). If you can, just name it - I'd be interested in knowing which one did. You may want them to get together and think that they should in your opinion, but that is a far cry from what has been shown over the years.

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