Mathers of the Heart - Sitcoms Online Message Boards

wingshock · 05-07-2003, 08:44 AM

I stayed up late to watch Hugh Jackman on Letterman & then couldn't sleep.

So I ended up watching Wings at 1am.

I really liked that episode... Lowell's expression after Helen kissed him, etc. And the art gallery scene was hilarious... when Lowell is talking about the painting... "Neat colors." And how a dump isn't necessarily a bad place.

The only thing I don't get is how Joe & Helen could kiss and then just say, "Nah."

I mean, if they'd just *talked* about getting back together & then decided not too, that'd seem fine... but they kissed, and in the past whenever they've kissed there's always been fireworks.

Love,

Wing<><

pilotguy · 05-07-2003, 08:57 AM

Yes, I agree...Joe and Helen's "Kiss and Walk Away" ending didn't ring true with me either....especially since there WAS still enough "spark" there for them to eventually get married. I was very confused by that scene.

I thought that this episode was one of Lowell's best. A part of me wondered if the problem really wasn't that he was BORED with Helen, but rather that he felt insecure because she was obviously so much more intelligent and worldly than he was.

Except for the letdown "kissing" ending between Joe and Helen, I thought that this was a very touching (but still funny) episode.

wingshock · 05-07-2003, 09:06 AM

ITA about Lowell. He was absolutely fabulous in that ep. I loved the way he was reacting to Helen... when he would say something serious and she'd laugh at it like it was a joke, and he had no idea what she was laughing at.

He was just so polite on their date that Helen enjoyed his company, but she was talking way above his head. And I guess when someone is talking above your head, it is really boring.

Love,

Wing<><

HaskellGirl · 05-07-2003, 10:17 AM

Hi Wingshock!

I went to that website you told me about. Oh my gosh, I was peeing in my pants!!!! That was SO hilarious!!!

Back to the episode, I thought it was sweet. I thought it was so hilarious how Joe and Brian were laughing at Helen after she said they had a good time, then all the sudden Brian says "That's not funny."

As for the ending, I thought it was a bit strange too, but not unrealistic. I don't think either of them disliked the kiss, but they probably just remembered back to when they were together, and at this point in their lives, didn't want that again. I think Helen and Joe have an interesting relationship that is based on friendship, but also a sibling-like relationship. I think that's why they kept giggling the first couple of times they kissed. So I think they were back in that type of a relationship in last night's ep, not their romancey mindset. They just weren't ready for it again. IMO.

losthighway · 05-07-2003, 12:21 PM

In hindsight, having Joe and Helen kiss like that and act like their was no spark, does seem very odd and unreal.

But at the same time you have to keep it in the context of the evolution of the show. Of course now we know they eventually got together and married. But at the time we as fans and even the writers had no idea where they were going to go with the characters. I'm sure the writers talked about getting them together at some point, but they weren't sure if they would. And of couse it took another year and a half of the show before the romantic light was lit again.

I always thought it was odd how they had the passionate encounter in the "Ladies who Lunch" episode and then never talked about it or dealt with it again. A year later, they had this episode where they kiss, but then feel nothing. I guess the writers just weren't sure what they wanted to do and didn't want to bring them together too fast.

pilotguy · 05-07-2003, 12:36 PM

Here's something else to remember:

Now we're watching these episodes as nightly reruns, and the episodes are flying at us fast and furious. (Of course, not as fast and as furious as if NICK was giving us DOUBLE nightly episodes, but we won't go into THAT!).

Because of this, specific incidents, stories and relationships that have happened over past episodes are a LOT fresher in our minds than they were to first-run viewers, who were getting only one "WINGS" episode per week, and that's not even counting weeks of network reruns and pre-emptions.

This whole "Who Kissed Who When and Where" situation was probably a lot fuzzier in the minds of first-run "WINGS" viewers, so the writers and actors had a little more "breathing room" in which to develop stories and characters.

Kris10m · 05-07-2003, 02:25 PM

Yeah, I thought the ending was a little weird, too. I think maybe the point was that Joe and Helen are not ready to face up to their feelings again yet...but their facial expressions and reactions afterwards didn't really show any of those feelings, which I kind of wondered about. The part that bugged me wasn't that they decided not to get back together, but their reactions...they just seemed so flippant about it.

wingshock · 05-07-2003, 02:38 PM

Yeah, like if we coulda just had a second where we saw a serious look on one or both of their faces, that would have helped.

But I do agree with what I think Pilotguy was saying... I mean, I just saw "Ladies Who Lunch" a few days ago, but when the shows first aired way back when... the eps didn't happen that soon after each other.

Love,

Wing<><

Krista2882 · 05-07-2003, 05:46 PM

yeah, I liked the episode too!! Lowell was very funny. hehe.

But the ending bothered me too! lol.
Joe and Helen shared what looked like an amazing kiss, and then they looked at each other like, "holy crap!" for a second, and then just said, "nah." and walked away! lol. I thought that was a little weird. But like someone else said, it probably reminded them of their relationship before, and they both decided that they weren't ready to get involved like that again yet.
I like how their friendship is so strong that they can openly talk about their relationship like that, and kiss like that, and things don't get weird between them.

~Krista

Chocoholic · 05-07-2003, 06:15 PM

I give it 8 out of 10 stars. I loved it, but it wasn't really one of my favorites. I think Lowell, like Roy, is a lot funnier as a secondary character. I do think it's one of Lowell's best episodes though. I think he really knew Helen was too good for him or something.

And Roy and Antonio getting drunk was funny

What were they doing when they were running through the terminal? It looked like Antonio was trying to jump on Roy or something.

OCMD · 05-07-2003, 07:14 PM

Sort of new to this. Here goes. I get the sense whenever Joe and Helen kiss like last night each one is trying to sense out the other's feelings.

and each one really isn't sure where the other one wants to go. Sometimes in other episodes they tend to watch each other. Joe more so than Helen. Has anyone else noticed this? Do have to give it to Lowell for the laugh though.

Krista2882 · 05-07-2003, 09:25 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by OCMD
Sort of new to this. Here goes. I get the sense whenever Joe and Helen kiss like last night each one is trying to sense out the other's feelings. and each one really isn't sure where the other one wants to go. Sometimes in other episodes they tend to watch each other. Joe more so than Helen. Has anyone else noticed this?

hey, that's an interesting observation there, and you know what? I think I agree with you!

~Krista

HaskellGirl · 05-08-2003, 04:46 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by OCMD
Sort of new to this. Here goes. I get the sense whenever Joe and Helen kiss like last night each one is trying to sense out the other's feelings. and each one really isn't sure where the other one wants to go. Sometimes in other episodes they tend to watch each other. Joe more so than Helen. Has anyone else noticed this? Do have to give it to Lowell for the laugh though.

I'm going to have to look for that. Thanks for pointing it out!

Ice Cream Man · 05-09-2003, 05:22 PM

I think there's plenty of chemistry between Joe and Helen. The kissing scene was a bit odd until you realize that you've been in a similar situation before. I think they both like each other enough, but maybe neither wanted to complicate their lives more at the time. There's really much to be said for simplicity. But don't think on that too hard.

05-07-2003, 08:44 AM	#1
wingshock Way, Truth, Life <>< Frequent Poster Join Date: Apr 30, 2003 Location: Tallahassee, FL Posts: 308	Mathers of the Heart I stayed up late to watch Hugh Jackman on Letterman & then couldn't sleep. So I ended up watching Wings at 1am. I really liked that episode... Lowell's expression after Helen kissed him, etc. And the art gallery scene was hilarious... when Lowell is talking about the painting... "Neat colors." And how a dump isn't necessarily a bad place. The only thing I don't get is how Joe & Helen could kiss and then just say, "Nah." I mean, if they'd just talked about getting back together & then decided not too, that'd seem fine... but they kissed, and in the past whenever they've kissed there's always been fireworks. Love, Wing<><

05-07-2003, 05:46 PM	#9
Krista2882 Member Senior Member Join Date: Apr 10, 2003 Location: CT Posts: 1,370	yeah, I liked the episode too!! Lowell was very funny. hehe. But the ending bothered me too! lol. Joe and Helen shared what looked like an amazing kiss, and then they looked at each other like, "holy crap!" for a second, and then just said, "nah." and walked away! lol. I thought that was a little weird. But like someone else said, it probably reminded them of their relationship before, and they both decided that they weren't ready to get involved like that again yet. I like how their friendship is so strong that they can openly talk about their relationship like that, and kiss like that, and things don't get weird between them. ~Krista
	Last edited by Krista2882; 05-07-2003 at 09:23 PM.

05-07-2003, 07:14 PM	#11
OCMD Member Occasional Poster Join Date: Apr 17, 2003 Posts: 6	last night's episode Sort of new to this. Here goes. I get the sense whenever Joe and Helen kiss like last night each one is trying to sense out the other's feelings. and each one really isn't sure where the other one wants to go. Sometimes in other episodes they tend to watch each other. Joe more so than Helen. Has anyone else noticed this? Do have to give it to Lowell for the laugh though.

05-07-2003, 08:57 AM	#2
pilotguy Member Senior Member Join Date: Apr 09, 2003 Posts: 1,305	Yes, I agree...Joe and Helen's "Kiss and Walk Away" ending didn't ring true with me either....especially since there WAS still enough "spark" there for them to eventually get married. I was very confused by that scene. I thought that this episode was one of Lowell's best. A part of me wondered if the problem really wasn't that he was BORED with Helen, but rather that he felt insecure because she was obviously so much more intelligent and worldly than he was. Except for the letdown "kissing" ending between Joe and Helen, I thought that this was a very touching (but still funny) episode.

05-07-2003, 09:06 AM	#3
wingshock Way, Truth, Life <>< Frequent Poster Join Date: Apr 30, 2003 Location: Tallahassee, FL Posts: 308	ITA about Lowell. He was absolutely fabulous in that ep. I loved the way he was reacting to Helen... when he would say something serious and she'd laugh at it like it was a joke, and he had no idea what she was laughing at. He was just so polite on their date that Helen enjoyed his company, but she was talking way above his head. And I guess when someone is talking above your head, it is really boring. Love, Wing<><

05-07-2003, 10:17 AM	#4
HaskellGirl Member Forum Regular Join Date: Jul 15, 2002 Posts: 590	Hi Wingshock! I went to that website you told me about. Oh my gosh, I was peeing in my pants!!!! That was SO hilarious!!! Back to the episode, I thought it was sweet. I thought it was so hilarious how Joe and Brian were laughing at Helen after she said they had a good time, then all the sudden Brian says "That's not funny." As for the ending, I thought it was a bit strange too, but not unrealistic. I don't think either of them disliked the kiss, but they probably just remembered back to when they were together, and at this point in their lives, didn't want that again. I think Helen and Joe have an interesting relationship that is based on friendship, but also a sibling-like relationship. I think that's why they kept giggling the first couple of times they kissed. So I think they were back in that type of a relationship in last night's ep, not their romancey mindset. They just weren't ready for it again. IMO.

05-07-2003, 12:21 PM	#5
losthighway Member Frequent Poster Join Date: Apr 14, 2003 Posts: 370	In hindsight, having Joe and Helen kiss like that and act like their was no spark, does seem very odd and unreal. But at the same time you have to keep it in the context of the evolution of the show. Of course now we know they eventually got together and married. But at the time we as fans and even the writers had no idea where they were going to go with the characters. I'm sure the writers talked about getting them together at some point, but they weren't sure if they would. And of couse it took another year and a half of the show before the romantic light was lit again. I always thought it was odd how they had the passionate encounter in the "Ladies who Lunch" episode and then never talked about it or dealt with it again. A year later, they had this episode where they kiss, but then feel nothing. I guess the writers just weren't sure what they wanted to do and didn't want to bring them together too fast.

05-07-2003, 12:36 PM	#6
pilotguy Member Senior Member Join Date: Apr 09, 2003 Posts: 1,305	Here's something else to remember: Now we're watching these episodes as nightly reruns, and the episodes are flying at us fast and furious. (Of course, not as fast and as furious as if NICK was giving us DOUBLE nightly episodes, but we won't go into THAT!). Because of this, specific incidents, stories and relationships that have happened over past episodes are a LOT fresher in our minds than they were to first-run viewers, who were getting only one "WINGS" episode per week, and that's not even counting weeks of network reruns and pre-emptions. This whole "Who Kissed Who When and Where" situation was probably a lot fuzzier in the minds of first-run "WINGS" viewers, so the writers and actors had a little more "breathing room" in which to develop stories and characters.

05-07-2003, 02:25 PM	#7
Kris10m Member Occasional Poster Join Date: Apr 15, 2003 Posts: 95	Yeah, I thought the ending was a little weird, too. I think maybe the point was that Joe and Helen are not ready to face up to their feelings again yet...but their facial expressions and reactions afterwards didn't really show any of those feelings, which I kind of wondered about. The part that bugged me wasn't that they decided not to get back together, but their reactions...they just seemed so flippant about it.

05-07-2003, 02:38 PM	#8
wingshock Way, Truth, Life <>< Frequent Poster Join Date: Apr 30, 2003 Location: Tallahassee, FL Posts: 308	Yeah, like if we coulda just had a second where we saw a serious look on one or both of their faces, that would have helped. But I do agree with what I think Pilotguy was saying... I mean, I just saw "Ladies Who Lunch" a few days ago, but when the shows first aired way back when... the eps didn't happen that soon after each other. Love, Wing<><

05-07-2003, 06:15 PM	#10
Chocoholic Member Forum Star Join Date: Dec 01, 2000 Location: Between a rock and a hard place. Posts: 11,235	I give it 8 out of 10 stars. I loved it, but it wasn't really one of my favorites. I think Lowell, like Roy, is a lot funnier as a secondary character. I do think it's one of Lowell's best episodes though. I think he really knew Helen was too good for him or something. And Roy and Antonio getting drunk was funny What were they doing when they were running through the terminal? It looked like Antonio was trying to jump on Roy or something.

05-09-2003, 05:22 PM	#14
Ice Cream Man DieHard Wing Fan Frequent Poster Join Date: Apr 30, 2003 Posts: 107	I think there's plenty of chemistry between Joe and Helen. The kissing scene was a bit odd until you realize that you've been in a similar situation before. I think they both like each other enough, but maybe neither wanted to complicate their lives more at the time. There's really much to be said for simplicity. But don't think on that too hard.