The First 2 Years - Sitcoms Online Message Boards

Dianne3 · 05-02-2003, 04:42 PM

Would anyone know why they are not shown in reruns?

I had read on the official site, that they were not available anywhere until only 4 years ago-1999.

Mr. Television · 08-05-2003, 12:45 AM

probably because they were filmed in black and white.

TV Guy · 08-11-2003, 11:30 PM

Back in the early 70s, color programming was in short supply in syndication (since color had really only become widespread in the mid-1960s). Color television penetration had reached a high level by the time "Petticoat Junction" was syndicated, and local stations were willing to pay more for color programming. It was not an uncommon practice for a syndicator to drop the black-and-white shows from a syndication package if there were enough color shows (generally 100 or more) to rerun. The really big blockbusters like "Beverly Hillbillies" usually had all episodes included because of their popularity, but with PJ, dropping the black-and-white shows from the package made it more attractive to local stations (same thing happened with "My Three Sons", along with "Bewitched" and "I Dream of Jeannie" in the mid 80s).

As for why the black-and-whites are not rerun on cable now: my guess is that it's a residual issue. The way that contracts were done in the 1960s and 70s, actors received payments for a certain number of times an episode was rerun, and then the residuals expired. The residuals have long expired on the color PJ reruns, so it's pretty cheap for Paramount to sell them to cable networks. However, if anyone was to air the black-and-white shows, Paramount would have to start paying residuals to the actors again since those episodes have never been rerun before. And the company's thinking probably is: why should we go to the expense of airing the black-and-white shows when we can sell the color ones without the overhead of residuals?

Dianne3 · 08-13-2003, 04:46 PM

Interesting response. Thanks for answering.

I didn't think it was because they were in black&white, because the Beverly Hillbillies does show the black&white episodes, but like you said, the Beverly Hillbillies were more popular.

Wasn't Gilligan's Island originally in black&white? All comedies premiering before 1965?

Isn't My Three Sons in 2 parts? Growing up, I saw the 1965-1972 episodes, but I have never seen an episode from the first 5 years.

Jenya · 08-13-2003, 05:38 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by lurkernomore
Interesting response. Thanks for answering.

I didn't think it was because they were in black&white, because the Beverly Hillbillies does show the black&white episodes, but like you said, the Beverly Hillbillies were more popular.

Wasn't Gilligan's Island originally in black&white? All comedies premiering before 1965?

Isn't My Three Sons in 2 parts? Growing up, I saw the 1965-1972 episodes, but I have never seen an episode from the first 5 years.

I e-mailed the Canadian TV station Prime TV last year, and I was told that they can't purchase the black and white shows. The distributer, Viacom TV is not releasing them to television stations. Why? I don't really know. But I heard somewhere that a court battle over copyrights is the reason. But I'm not sure if that's the real reason. Prime TV will not tell me the reason. Maybe Pavanbadal has more knowledge on this subject.

Dianne3 · 08-14-2003, 01:21 PM

Another interesting response. Thanks.

I'm also in Canada.

Zoneboy · 08-14-2003, 03:24 PM

Petticoat Junction aired here in NC for several years during the 70's and the B&W episodes were in the package. A distributor isn't going to hold back episodes simply because they're in B&W. If the stations are willing to pay, they'll release them.

TV Guy · 08-15-2003, 08:24 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by redrocker22
Petticoat Junction aired here in NC for several years during the 70's and the B&W episodes were in the package. A distributor isn't going to hold back episodes simply because they're in B&W. If the stations are willing to pay, they'll release them.

No, those black and white shows were never released in broadcast syndication, according to multiple sources (the "Petticoat Junction" and TV Land websites among them). Check out Dave Stein's site (http://petticoat.topcities.com/black...e_episodes.htm) for more. Dave is an expert on PJ and is a friend of Paul Henning, who created the show. I don't believe copyright issues are the problem, as these episodes have been released by Viacom on video through Columbia House. I still think there are residuals issues, but that is a guess.

And yes, black-and-white shows are sometimes held back from syndication if there are enough color shows to fill out the package (the original "My Three Sons" package in the 1970s, and the "Bewitched" and "I Dream of Jeannie" packages from the Program Exchange in the 1980s). This has been a not-uncommon practice over the years. It's even mentioned in this CBS Marketwatch story (check out the "Value of Older Content") section. http://custom.marketwatch.com/custom...7B39D5227CF%7D The black-and-white episodes of "My Three Sons", for instance, were finally rerun when the increasing number of cable channels created the need for more content.

I'm not saying that this happened with every show. Many distributors had no problem syndicating non-color episodes, but in some cases they did prefer to sell just the color shows. "The Beverly Hillbillies" was one of the most popular shows ever aired originally in prime time (it used to get something like a 35 rating, which is unheard of today). I'm sure Viacom never even considered not selling all the episodes of this huge hit. As far as "Gilligan" goes: there aren't enough color episodes to stand on their own as a package, so I doubt an all-color package was considered.

Zoneboy · 08-15-2003, 11:21 PM

I'm sorry Tv Guy but the B&W episodes did in fact air here in NC on WFMY channel 2 in syndication during the 1970's. I know what I'm talking about so please don't make me out to be a liar. I was a teenager at the time and this channel always had a block of shows from 4:00-6:00 that included Andy Griffith, Beverly Hillbillies, Wild Wild West, Daniel Boone etc...Whether or not you choose to believe me is up to you but they did in fact show the B&W episodes of Petticoat Junction.

TV Guy · 08-16-2003, 10:49 AM

I'm not calling you a liar and I'm sorry if you interpreted my last post that way. I do think you're mistaken about these B&W episodes having aired, the same way you were mistaken when you stated that a distributor won't hold back episodes because they're not in color. I think it's strange that all available sources say that those shows have never been rerun, the distributor itself says the shows are unavailable for syndication, and yet you're saying that a station in North Carolina managed to get hold of those shows. What we have here is conflicting information. Everyone's free to believe what they want, of course, and I choose to believe the established sources until I see proof otherwise.

You should contact the PJ website that I listed above, though, because I think they would be very interested to hear what you have to say.

Zoneboy · 08-16-2003, 01:05 PM

I've never known a distributor to hold back episodes of any show simply because they're in B&W. How many years was Petticoat Junction in B&W? You stated that the first 2 years were not in syndication. Is it possible that the episodes I saw were after that? I know I saw some of the B&W episodes but I have no clue what season they were from.

Jenya · 08-20-2003, 06:53 PM

I am not 100% sure on the exact reason why the Black and White PJ episodes are not on Prime TV at this time, but I heard that CanWest Global (Which owns the broadcasting rights for PJ here in Canada) is in the process of having them colourized. Again I'm not 100% certain on this. I was reading this information on another messageboard from someone who apparently works for CanWest. So by all means, don't take my word on it.

As of right now, unfortunately, Petticoat Junction is no longer airing on Prime.

Mr. Television · 08-20-2003, 07:10 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by redrocker22
I've never known a distributor to hold back episodes of any show simply because they're in B&W. How many years was Petticoat Junction in B&W? You stated that the first 2 years were not in syndication. Is it possible that the episodes I saw were after that? I know I saw some of the B&W episodes but I have no clue what season they were from.

I am not certain about Petticoat Junction, but I know the first season of I Dream Of Jeannie was not syndicated until the 1980's when it aired on Nick At Night. The black and white episodes of My Three Sons also weren't syndicated until the 1980's. I also lived in North Carolina in the 1970's and vaguely remember Petticoat Junction airing but I don't remember if any black and white episodes aired.

Steve Carras · 10-27-2004, 11:57 PM

I know that this isa year old now,but my 2 cents--I have from pp cent store (a neo-Woolworth's out here in Southern California and in Las Vegas and maybe else where) courtesy of Dollar DVD* with the Bea BEnadaret/Pat Woodell,etc. Black and Whitews, and I'd like to point out that I saw in reruns the color GILLIGANS before the B&W's...(they did take up two parts of the package,I've in many ways preferred the color ones, but NOT because they were in colore..some B&W ones I love and some color episodes are substandard of GILLIGAN)..

I also laboured under the MY THREE SONS-as 1965 series (thru 1970 not 1972**) misconception due to the selectivity due to pro-color bias. Obviously a then-growing fear of too many older veiwers versus younger ones (which still dogs the entertainment industry today,despite LUCY and some others ENTIRELY in B&W,or THREE STOOGES)..many senior-citizen (which in the time in question, the early 70s, referred to the "Roarin' Twenties" generation that supposedly made the bulk of say, Red Skelton or Lawrence Welk, audeience) folk -SPECIFICALLY, "unsophisticated" rural ones, are the major mainstay as felt of B&W, thsu expl,aining the less-seen presence of it vs color.

-----------------------------NOTES-----------------------
*DOLLAR DVD: Other titles, beside PJ are what I thought was GILLIGANS ISALND but is the MOVIE of it, as well as JACK EBNNY and some movie classics.

**MY THREE SONS after 1970: Fred MacMurray's (Character actor) Alan Cailou-0voiced MacMurray-played Scots cousin Lord Bain Ferguson was in these last ones, thus (and maybe another reason bering the new marriage of Mr/.MacMurray onscren) keeping MTS later episodes from later eps.

Linda53 · 01-10-2005, 08:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nighthawk

I am not certain about Petticoat Junction, but I know the first season of I Dream Of Jeannie was not syndicated until the 1980's when it aired on Nick At Night. The black and white episodes of My Three Sons also weren't syndicated until the 1980's. I also lived in North Carolina in the 1970's and vaguely remember Petticoat Junction airing but I don't remember if any black and white episodes aired.

There are several B&W episodes out there that were released by Columbia House several years back. Unfortunately, these were the only ones that were able to be released. At the present time, Linda Henning AKA Betty Jo (daughter of Paul Henning) has been working on getting a DVD released with some of the episodes as well as with interviews with some of the remaining cast members. We will have to be happy with this for the time being. Paul Henning sold the rights to the episodes many years ago but retained the rights to the music so the DVD;s that are available for purchase now, are boot legged copies and do not contain the original music.

The only legal copies of the B&W's that are out there are the ones on the Columbia House tapes.

Linda

05-02-2003, 04:42 PM	#1
Dianne3 Member Senior Member Join Date: Aug 07, 2002 Posts: 1,057	The First 2 Years Would anyone know why they are not shown in reruns? I had read on the official site, that they were not available anywhere until only 4 years ago-1999.

08-05-2003, 12:45 AM	#2
Mr. Television 23 Years at Sitcoms Online Forum Icon Join Date: Jun 06, 2003 Location: Somewhere you're Not Posts: 62,133	probably because they were filmed in black and white.
	__________________ Sonny

08-11-2003, 11:30 PM	#3
TV Guy Member Forum 3000 Club Member Join Date: Jun 25, 2001 Location: Boston, MA, USA Posts: 3,419	Back in the early 70s, color programming was in short supply in syndication (since color had really only become widespread in the mid-1960s). Color television penetration had reached a high level by the time "Petticoat Junction" was syndicated, and local stations were willing to pay more for color programming. It was not an uncommon practice for a syndicator to drop the black-and-white shows from a syndication package if there were enough color shows (generally 100 or more) to rerun. The really big blockbusters like "Beverly Hillbillies" usually had all episodes included because of their popularity, but with PJ, dropping the black-and-white shows from the package made it more attractive to local stations (same thing happened with "My Three Sons", along with "Bewitched" and "I Dream of Jeannie" in the mid 80s). As for why the black-and-whites are not rerun on cable now: my guess is that it's a residual issue. The way that contracts were done in the 1960s and 70s, actors received payments for a certain number of times an episode was rerun, and then the residuals expired. The residuals have long expired on the color PJ reruns, so it's pretty cheap for Paramount to sell them to cable networks. However, if anyone was to air the black-and-white shows, Paramount would have to start paying residuals to the actors again since those episodes have never been rerun before. And the company's thinking probably is: why should we go to the expense of airing the black-and-white shows when we can sell the color ones without the overhead of residuals?
	Last edited by TV Guy; 08-12-2003 at 09:36 AM.

08-14-2003, 03:24 PM	#7
Zoneboy RIP, I'LL NEVER FORGET YOU :( Moderator Forum Superstar Join Date: Jul 13, 2003 Location: AT HOME WISHING ALL THIS WAS JUST A DREAM AND THAT I'LL WAKE UP FROM THIS NIGHTMARE. Posts: 34,375	Petticoat Junction aired here in NC for several years during the 70's and the B&W episodes were in the package. A distributor isn't going to hold back episodes simply because they're in B&W. If the stations are willing to pay, they'll release them.
	__________________ 'Twas The Night Before Christmas And All Through The Full House Not A Creature Was Stirring, Not Even Mighty Mouse. All My Children We're Nestled All Snug In Their Beds While Visions Of Sugarbakers Danced In Their Heads.

08-15-2003, 11:21 PM	#9
Zoneboy RIP, I'LL NEVER FORGET YOU :( Moderator Forum Superstar Join Date: Jul 13, 2003 Location: AT HOME WISHING ALL THIS WAS JUST A DREAM AND THAT I'LL WAKE UP FROM THIS NIGHTMARE. Posts: 34,375	I'm sorry Tv Guy but the B&W episodes did in fact air here in NC on WFMY channel 2 in syndication during the 1970's. I know what I'm talking about so please don't make me out to be a liar. I was a teenager at the time and this channel always had a block of shows from 4:00-6:00 that included Andy Griffith, Beverly Hillbillies, Wild Wild West, Daniel Boone etc...Whether or not you choose to believe me is up to you but they did in fact show the B&W episodes of Petticoat Junction.
	Last edited by Zoneboy; 08-15-2003 at 11:33 PM.

08-13-2003, 04:46 PM	#4
Dianne3 Member Senior Member Join Date: Aug 07, 2002 Posts: 1,057	Interesting response. Thanks for answering. I didn't think it was because they were in black&white, because the Beverly Hillbillies does show the black&white episodes, but like you said, the Beverly Hillbillies were more popular. Wasn't Gilligan's Island originally in black&white? All comedies premiering before 1965? Isn't My Three Sons in 2 parts? Growing up, I saw the 1965-1972 episodes, but I have never seen an episode from the first 5 years.

08-14-2003, 01:21 PM	#6
Dianne3 Member Senior Member Join Date: Aug 07, 2002 Posts: 1,057	Another interesting response. Thanks. I'm also in Canada.

08-16-2003, 10:49 AM	#10
TV Guy Member Forum 3000 Club Member Join Date: Jun 25, 2001 Location: Boston, MA, USA Posts: 3,419	I'm not calling you a liar and I'm sorry if you interpreted my last post that way. I do think you're mistaken about these B&W episodes having aired, the same way you were mistaken when you stated that a distributor won't hold back episodes because they're not in color. I think it's strange that all available sources say that those shows have never been rerun, the distributor itself says the shows are unavailable for syndication, and yet you're saying that a station in North Carolina managed to get hold of those shows. What we have here is conflicting information. Everyone's free to believe what they want, of course, and I choose to believe the established sources until I see proof otherwise. You should contact the PJ website that I listed above, though, because I think they would be very interested to hear what you have to say.
	Last edited by TV Guy; 08-16-2003 at 11:20 AM.

08-16-2003, 01:05 PM	#11
Zoneboy RIP, I'LL NEVER FORGET YOU :( Moderator Forum Superstar Join Date: Jul 13, 2003 Location: AT HOME WISHING ALL THIS WAS JUST A DREAM AND THAT I'LL WAKE UP FROM THIS NIGHTMARE. Posts: 34,375	I've never known a distributor to hold back episodes of any show simply because they're in B&W. How many years was Petticoat Junction in B&W? You stated that the first 2 years were not in syndication. Is it possible that the episodes I saw were after that? I know I saw some of the B&W episodes but I have no clue what season they were from.

08-20-2003, 06:53 PM	#12
Jenya Supervisor Forum 3000 Club Member Join Date: Apr 20, 2003 Location: Canmore, Alberta Posts: 3,359	I am not 100% sure on the exact reason why the Black and White PJ episodes are not on Prime TV at this time, but I heard that CanWest Global (Which owns the broadcasting rights for PJ here in Canada) is in the process of having them colourized. Again I'm not 100% certain on this. I was reading this information on another messageboard from someone who apparently works for CanWest. So by all means, don't take my word on it. As of right now, unfortunately, Petticoat Junction is no longer airing on Prime.

10-27-2004, 11:57 PM	#14
Steve Carras Sandra Bullock RULES! Forum Regular Join Date: Jun 30, 2002 Location: Riverside County, CA Posts: 807	I know that this isa year old now,but my 2 cents--I have from pp cent store (a neo-Woolworth's out here in Southern California and in Las Vegas and maybe else where) courtesy of Dollar DVD* with the Bea BEnadaret/Pat Woodell,etc. Black and Whitews, and I'd like to point out that I saw in reruns the color GILLIGANS before the B&W's...(they did take up two parts of the package,I've in many ways preferred the color ones, but NOT because they were in colore..some B&W ones I love and some color episodes are substandard of GILLIGAN).. I also laboured under the MY THREE SONS-as 1965 series (thru 1970 not 1972*) misconception due to the selectivity due to pro-color bias. Obviously a then-growing fear of too many older veiwers versus younger ones (which still dogs the entertainment industry today,despite LUCY and some others ENTIRELY in B&W,or THREE STOOGES)..many senior-citizen (which in the time in question, the early 70s, referred to the "Roarin' Twenties" generation that supposedly made the bulk of say, Red Skelton or Lawrence Welk, audeience) folk -SPECIFICALLY, "unsophisticated" rural ones, are the major mainstay as felt of B&W, thsu expl,aining the less-seen presence of it vs color. -----------------------------NOTES----------------------- DOLLAR DVD: Other titles, beside PJ are what I thought was GILLIGANS ISALND but is the MOVIE of it, as well as JACK EBNNY and some movie classics. **MY THREE SONS after 1970: Fred MacMurray's (Character actor) Alan Cailou-0voiced MacMurray-played Scots cousin Lord Bain Ferguson was in these last ones, thus (and maybe another reason bering the new marriage of Mr/.MacMurray onscren) keeping MTS later episodes from later eps.
	__________________ "And that's showbiz......kid" -Roxie Hart (Renee Zellweger, Chicago, 2002)