Episode Discussion - "Venus Rising" - Sitcoms Online Message Boards

jaime_weinman · 02-25-2003, 08:52 PM

Airdate: March 10, 1980

This was the next-to-last episode of the second season, and a very solid one. It was one of several second-season episodes that established Venus as someone whose "hip" act was just that, an act; underneath it he's a very conservative person who thinks his wardrobe is stupid and wants to get into a management job.

This episode shows how WKRP could subvert sitcom cliches. The episode where someone gets offered another, higher-paying job is a cliche. Every sitcom has done it, and the writers know that we know that Venus is not going to take the job at WREQ. So, in a twist, that plot is basically resolved at the end of act 1. Venus realizes what WREQ wants him for, and when he retuns in act 2 he's already decided not to take the job. So the focus shifts to the story of Herb, and his bitterness at finding out that (unlike with Venus) nobody at the station cares about him enough to ask him to stay. And instead of trying to build up fake suspense in the scene where Andy negotiates with Venus, the show gets huge laughs instead from Andy's ineptitude as a negotiator.

(Another example of how WKRP could twist around the old "Another job offer" plot was in Goodbye Johnny, where we're all expecting Johnny to stay -- and instead he accepts the better offer in L.A., and doesn't return until he gets fired from the better job. WKRP was extremely good at taking familiar sitcom stories and telling them in unexpected ways.)

APPLEI · 02-27-2003, 02:55 AM

this was also one of my favorite episodes of wkrp in cincinnati!
its ironic that herb is giving away phony hams.
because herb acts like a phony ham whos really a proud man.
but herb has revealed a more human quality in previous episodes "put up or shut up" and "herbs dad"
but in this episode herb redeems himself a little bit more.
herb shows his true colors an issue that would be explored in such episodes as "real families","out to lunch","frog story","straight from the heart","pills" and "to err is human"
a good title for this episode would be "venus rising/herb tarlek is put into his place"
venus flytrap aka gordon sims also reveals himself.
as a class act who is a spiritual person not a MATERIAL person.
one of my favorite lines in this episode is herb saying to les "don't tell anyone and les don't tell them soon" herb telling les about his NEW JOB AT CHANNEL 71!
the subplot where baileys sucking up to venus and then andy and then johnny is classic!

RamOntheRun · 02-27-2003, 08:30 AM

excellent observations and well written jaime. the writers for WKRP always had a knack for making one of the constant themes (doing the right thing for principle in the lure of superficial and monetery gains) with taste and not making them too corny, sweet or sentimental- they were always just right. Other examples of this theme would be: saving the flim building, not singing the contract with the funeral home director who wanted the jingle, stopping the amphetemine diet pill ads, herb getting screwed in "The Painting", etc. As polar opposites (Venus and Herb) this show was beautifully done as they played off each other in both the writing and acting. The moments towards the end of epiode where Venus helps Herb and asking nothing in return come off poigniant without cheesy. It's believable, I think, because of the strength of Venus's character - one gets lost in the moment...something that a lesser show with lesser actors could simply not pull off.
I must not have the original version that the other poster (appei) has when he/she brought up Bailey sucking up to Venus- Andy - Johnny. My version has none of that...I'm sure I have a butchered version of the show.

dlemond · 02-27-2003, 01:02 PM

When you think about Venus Rising and the situation with WREQ and WKRP, it can almost be an analogy or commentary on the state of sitcoms and WKRP's place amongst them.

Where a star is lured to a job that requires just showing his face and where quality work is not an issue.
-think a sitcom hiring a big name just to be in the lineup.

A machine of an operation that spits out the product with less and less of a human element and feeling.
-think a by the numbers, un-imaginative sitcom compared to WKRP and its quality scripts, actors, and original characters (that resemble real people)

Where money and ratings rule and the quality of the people and product is second. Loyalty and family is not even a factor.
-think WKRP in Cincinnati, getting decent ratings though seemingly uncared for by CBS- while all the stars, writers and directors feel their show is something special - a family coming together.

I don't necessarily think it was intentional, but you can see the
similarities there.

APPLEI · 02-28-2003, 12:03 AM

Quote:

[i]Originally posted by Ram on the run[i]
I must not have the original version that the other poster (appei) has when HE brought up Bailey sucking up to Venus- Andy - Johnny. My version has none of that...I'm sure I have a butchered version of the show. [/B]

the scenes i'm talking about are bailey telling venus "why do you want to become a program directer all they do is sit on their duffs" then bailey realizes that andy was standing in the doorway listening and an embarrassed bailey says"not are program directer no no andy travis is
the best darn program directer in the world"

in another scene baileys telling johnny fever that
hes the best disc jockey in the world.
bailey realizes that venus is in the room and says
something to this effect"thats nighttime only venus" bailey putting her foot in her mouth again!

i don't know if those scenes were cut in the 22 minutes versions of wkrp.
but i know the uncut 25 minute version of wkrp has those scenes.

APPLEI · 02-28-2003, 12:14 AM

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by dlemond [/]
Where a star is lured to a job that requires just showing his face and where quality work is not an issue.
-think a sitcom hiring a big name just to be in the lineup.

A machine of an operation that spits out the product with less and less of a human element and feeling.[i][QUOTE]

SUDDENLY SUSAN staring brooke shields is a good example.
i could name alot of others.

RamOntheRun · 02-28-2003, 04:01 AM

nice call dlemond on a common thread between the storyline in "Venus Rising" and the problems WKRP had with MTM, CBS and possibly the relationship of the show with mass viewers- even then. I think the premise of WKRP - the radio station being not only an underdog, but an underdog who did things their own way, gave way to a lot of unconcious and concious decisions in the writing tha led to a lot of similarities with WKRP the television show.
Another good example is in the episode "The Consltant". In which Andy explains to the consultant that the WKRP jocks program their own music, and how all the other characters do things their own way, rather than conforming to designs of the day or other contemporary sensibilities.
They may have never been the number one radio station in Cincinnati, and they were not allowed to achieve this invarible achievment in the television series due to an untimley cancellation. However they did their own thing- which was real and honest...something which counts for a lot- both in reality and fiction.

Johnny Fever quoting e.e. Cummings: "the intelligent man always fights for the lost cause, realizing all others are mere effects".

RamOntheRun · 02-28-2003, 04:09 AM

applei- yes, I now remember those scenes...it's been a couple years since I last busted out the WKRP tapes, so I'm a lttle rusty.
A lot of times Bailey is so benign as a character I tend to forget some scenes with her.

APPLEI · 02-28-2003, 04:21 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by RamOntheRun
applei- yes, I now remember those scenes...it's been a couple years since I last busted out the WKRP tapes, so I'm a lttle rusty.
A lot of times Bailey is so benign as a character I tend to forget some scenes with her.

yes,bailey is low keyed
but very intelligent and attractive!

APPLEI · 02-28-2003, 04:37 AM

its good to see the wkrp in cincinnati board cookin again.
lets keep it up!

dlemond · 02-28-2003, 04:47 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by APPLEI
its good to see the wkrp in cincinnati board cookin again.
lets keep it up!

I agree. Applei, it's good to hear from you.

It took all that nonsense with whether the show was on in the US or not to get it started, but it was worth it.

Keep it going everyone.

Good to see Jaime back. His input is invaluable.

And RamOntheRun, where have you been?

02-25-2003, 08:52 PM	#1
jaime_weinman Member Frequent Poster Join Date: Apr 22, 2000 Posts: 122	Episode Discussion - "Venus Rising" Airdate: March 10, 1980 This was the next-to-last episode of the second season, and a very solid one. It was one of several second-season episodes that established Venus as someone whose "hip" act was just that, an act; underneath it he's a very conservative person who thinks his wardrobe is stupid and wants to get into a management job. This episode shows how WKRP could subvert sitcom cliches. The episode where someone gets offered another, higher-paying job is a cliche. Every sitcom has done it, and the writers know that we know that Venus is not going to take the job at WREQ. So, in a twist, that plot is basically resolved at the end of act 1. Venus realizes what WREQ wants him for, and when he retuns in act 2 he's already decided not to take the job. So the focus shifts to the story of Herb, and his bitterness at finding out that (unlike with Venus) nobody at the station cares about him enough to ask him to stay. And instead of trying to build up fake suspense in the scene where Andy negotiates with Venus, the show gets huge laughs instead from Andy's ineptitude as a negotiator. (Another example of how WKRP could twist around the old "Another job offer" plot was in Goodbye Johnny, where we're all expecting Johnny to stay -- and instead he accepts the better offer in L.A., and doesn't return until he gets fired from the better job. WKRP was extremely good at taking familiar sitcom stories and telling them in unexpected ways.)

02-27-2003, 02:55 AM	#2
APPLEI Member Forum Regular Join Date: Aug 16, 2000 Location: JACKSON MI. 49203 Posts: 810	this was also one of my favorite episodes of wkrp in cincinnati! its ironic that herb is giving away phony hams. because herb acts like a phony ham whos really a proud man. but herb has revealed a more human quality in previous episodes "put up or shut up" and "herbs dad" but in this episode herb redeems himself a little bit more. herb shows his true colors an issue that would be explored in such episodes as "real families","out to lunch","frog story","straight from the heart","pills" and "to err is human" a good title for this episode would be "venus rising/herb tarlek is put into his place" venus flytrap aka gordon sims also reveals himself. as a class act who is a spiritual person not a MATERIAL person. one of my favorite lines in this episode is herb saying to les "don't tell anyone and les don't tell them soon" herb telling les about his NEW JOB AT CHANNEL 71! the subplot where baileys sucking up to venus and then andy and then johnny is classic!
	Last edited by APPLEI; 02-27-2003 at 04:08 AM.

02-28-2003, 04:01 AM	#7
RamOntheRun Member Occasional Poster Join Date: Mar 08, 2002 Location: usa Posts: 38	Re: art imitating life nice call dlemond on a common thread between the storyline in "Venus Rising" and the problems WKRP had with MTM, CBS and possibly the relationship of the show with mass viewers- even then. I think the premise of WKRP - the radio station being not only an underdog, but an underdog who did things their own way, gave way to a lot of unconcious and concious decisions in the writing tha led to a lot of similarities with WKRP the television show. Another good example is in the episode "The Consltant". In which Andy explains to the consultant that the WKRP jocks program their own music, and how all the other characters do things their own way, rather than conforming to designs of the day or other contemporary sensibilities. They may have never been the number one radio station in Cincinnati, and they were not allowed to achieve this invarible achievment in the television series due to an untimley cancellation. However they did their own thing- which was real and honest...something which counts for a lot- both in reality and fiction. Johnny Fever quoting e.e. Cummings: "the intelligent man always fights for the lost cause, realizing all others are mere effects".

02-28-2003, 04:09 AM	#8
RamOntheRun Member Occasional Poster Join Date: Mar 08, 2002 Location: usa Posts: 38	Re: Bailey in "Venus Rising" applei- yes, I now remember those scenes...it's been a couple years since I last busted out the WKRP tapes, so I'm a lttle rusty. A lot of times Bailey is so benign as a character I tend to forget some scenes with her.

02-28-2003, 04:37 AM	#10
APPLEI Member Forum Regular Join Date: Aug 16, 2000 Location: JACKSON MI. 49203 Posts: 810	were cookin again its good to see the wkrp in cincinnati board cookin again. lets keep it up!

02-27-2003, 08:30 AM	#3
RamOntheRun Member Occasional Poster Join Date: Mar 08, 2002 Location: usa Posts: 38	excellent observations and well written jaime. the writers for WKRP always had a knack for making one of the constant themes (doing the right thing for principle in the lure of superficial and monetery gains) with taste and not making them too corny, sweet or sentimental- they were always just right. Other examples of this theme would be: saving the flim building, not singing the contract with the funeral home director who wanted the jingle, stopping the amphetemine diet pill ads, herb getting screwed in "The Painting", etc. As polar opposites (Venus and Herb) this show was beautifully done as they played off each other in both the writing and acting. The moments towards the end of epiode where Venus helps Herb and asking nothing in return come off poigniant without cheesy. It's believable, I think, because of the strength of Venus's character - one gets lost in the moment...something that a lesser show with lesser actors could simply not pull off. I must not have the original version that the other poster (appei) has when he/she brought up Bailey sucking up to Venus- Andy - Johnny. My version has none of that...I'm sure I have a butchered version of the show.

02-27-2003, 01:02 PM	#4
dlemond Hey, I know you. Moderator Forum Veteran Join Date: Dec 03, 2001 Location: New Jersey Posts: 6,751	When you think about Venus Rising and the situation with WREQ and WKRP, it can almost be an analogy or commentary on the state of sitcoms and WKRP's place amongst them. Where a star is lured to a job that requires just showing his face and where quality work is not an issue. -think a sitcom hiring a big name just to be in the lineup. A machine of an operation that spits out the product with less and less of a human element and feeling. -think a by the numbers, un-imaginative sitcom compared to WKRP and its quality scripts, actors, and original characters (that resemble real people) Where money and ratings rule and the quality of the people and product is second. Loyalty and family is not even a factor. -think WKRP in Cincinnati, getting decent ratings though seemingly uncared for by CBS- while all the stars, writers and directors feel their show is something special - a family coming together. I don't necessarily think it was intentional, but you can see the similarities there.

02-28-2003, 12:14 AM	#6
APPLEI Member Forum Regular Join Date: Aug 16, 2000 Location: JACKSON MI. 49203 Posts: 810	[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by dlemond [/] Where a star is lured to a job that requires just showing his face and where quality work is not an issue. -think a sitcom hiring a big name just to be in the lineup. A machine of an operation that spits out the product with less and less of a human element and feeling.[i][QUOTE] SUDDENLY SUSAN staring brooke shields is a good example. i could name alot of others.