Edith's departure - Sitcoms Online Message Boards

60sSitcomFan · 01-23-2003, 09:04 PM

Why didn't the writers just have Edith leave Archie to stay with Gloria in California so she could possibly return at a later date? Was that Jean Stapleton's wish? It wasn't nice to 'kill her off'.

jon123 · 01-24-2003, 10:39 AM

Of course it was a tragedy to kill off one of TV's most beloved characters, but Carroll and the producers felt it was the only way to continue the show. I always felt if they could have talked Jean into appearing in 10 episodes or so a year then Edith wouldn't have had to die. The remaining episodes would then be set in the bar. They may have been able to keep the AITF name that way and then we all could proudly say that AITF ran 13 years and was the 2nd longest running sitcom in history rather than saying it ran 9 and the debate over whether AITF and ABP should be considered seperate shows.

Unfortuneately, since Jean wanted out the only way Edith could leave the show would be to die. She may have visited Gloria or one of her other many (usually unseen) relatives for a few weeks at a time but she never would have left Archie for longer than that. To have Archie and Edith divorce would have been unthinkable (besides if they did, Archie would of had to have done something really bad and who would want to watch him after that!).

I wished Jean had stayed to the end but I respect her decision to leave as one she felt she had to do. Happy birthday, Jean, and we are glad that in real life you are still very much with us!

TV Guy · 01-25-2003, 04:15 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by jon123
I always felt if they could have talked Jean into appearing in 10 episodes or so a year then Edith wouldn't have had to die.

Although many published sources say that Jean wanted to leave altogether, I've seen her interviewed where she said that out of loyalty to the show, she was willing to continue to do occasional appearances like she did during the first season, as long as they were all taped consecutively. But Carroll and his writers felt that as long as there was the possibility of Edith appearing, the audience would feel disappointed in the episodes in which she was absent. Also, they were running out of story ideas, and a widowed Archie allowed them to set more stories at the house, and have him go out on dates, etc. Jean said that she was surprised they decided to kill Edith off, but she understood the reasoning behind it.

jon123 · 01-25-2003, 12:33 PM

Its too bad some kind of compromise with Jean couldn't have been reached. Edith appeared in five episodes (counting Thanksgiving Reunion as two) the first year of ABP but that wasn't enough. There were some like Sammy Davis' return visit or the party honoring Archie as man of the year that Edith should have been there. If she only offered to appear in four or five again I can see why they had to make the painful decision. But if she had appeared in about ten those episodes could have been set more at the Bunker home. It was actually very unpleasant watching Archie date other women and if the show had continued one more year he would have remarried(gasp!). By this time there were enough other characters on the show to have enough storylines for the non-Edith episodes. Also, the occassional "Edith is visiting Gloria" or "Aunt Helen" would have worked if she was there at least half the time. Speaking as one fan, I would not have been disappointed to not see Edith on some episodes rather than have her die. One wonders if the Bunker home would have seemed so dark in the last years if they had done that.

TVJunkie101 · 01-25-2003, 01:06 PM

The Bunker home really was much darker after Edith's death, rarely as bright as it was in the first season of ABP.

I don't think they should have killed Edith off, but I agree about how she wasn't appearing in a few episodes she WAS needed in, like Man of the Year, etc. I still think it could have worked the remainder of the 3 seasons and I never minded only seeing Edith occasionally. But, they killed Edith off YEARS ago, lol, not much we can do now.

DarleneIllyria · 01-25-2003, 03:27 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by TVJunkie101
The Bunker home really was much darker after Edith's death, rarely as bright as it was in the first season of ABP.

I don't think they should have killed Edith off, but I agree about how she wasn't appearing in a few episodes she WAS needed in, like Man of the Year, etc. I still think it could have worked the remainder of the 3 seasons and I never minded only seeing Edith occasionally. But, they killed Edith off YEARS ago, lol, not much we can do now.

Yeah, ditto.

I'm happy the show got pulled before Archie could get remarried. Edith will always be Archie's wife and I just don't think I would buy a second wife. Yeah, I know if your spouse dies you can get remarried again. It's just that I can't picture anybody else, but Edith as Archie's wife.

TV Guy · 01-25-2003, 04:46 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Jenny

I'm happy the show got pulled before Archie could get remarried. Edith will always be Archie's wife and I just don't think I would buy a second wife. Yeah, I know if your spouse dies you can get remarried again. It's just that I can't picture anybody else, but Edith as Archie's wife.

When O'Connor was talking about his idea for a potential 1990s "Archie" series, he mentioned that Archie would have had a steady lady friend, but no plans for remarriage. Even he realized that Edith was irreplaceable.

Impressions · 01-25-2003, 08:26 PM

I could have seen Edith around a lot longer, my theory is that ABP wasn't as much about a family anymore, with Gloria and Mike moving away and the addition to Stephanie there wasn't as much to talk about, so I'm guessing the writers figured they would make another spin-off because they couldn't use the AITF title anymore. I think AITF was moving on. Jean didn't want to be in the show anymore, so I think the writers made a spin-off about Archie and his bar. Since she didn't want to appear, I think the writers wouldn't use her as much on ABP since it was mostly about his bar and his friends there, and since the show wasn't always involving the home, she wouldn't always be part of the show.

I don't think I would have had Archie and Edith divorce and have Archie re-marry, it wouldn't turn out to be the show that it was, it wouldn't be the same. So I think the only way was to have absent during the course of the show. After that, atleast they had a few storylines with the bar, and some of the cast, eventhough she had passed away.

Dan Asnis · 01-26-2003, 02:56 AM

It was Norman Lears idea that Archie could get remarried to a younger woman in ABP's 5th season. Maybe Lear would have taken a more active roll in a 5th season of ABP maybe Lear would have agreed to be a active creative consultant. Lear also wanted Reiner to appear on 8 shows or so. Maybe If Gloria was still canceled and CBS kept ABP for the 1983-84 season maybe Sally Struthers could returned Gloria and Joey would have became regulars on ABP and mike would have returned realizing the commune was a mistake and trying relentlessly trying to win Gloria back maybe even with Archie’s help. With Joey back maybe they could have brought Barney’s Granddaughter (AITF the Baby Contest) back Archie and Barney catch the two kids playing doctor with Barney and Archie saying it was the others fault and blaming each other.

jon123 · 01-27-2003, 12:24 AM

I agree with the last post. I think it was a mistake to ever have a separate Gloria series in the first place. Perhaps, if Gloria had just returned to ABP it wouldn't have been cancelled. Norman's renewed involvement would definetely have helped. It would have been a nice twist to see Archie try to get Mike and Gloria back together, after all at the end of AITF he had finally accepted Mike. But if Archie was going to remarry, I'm also glad it was cancelled before that happened. No one could replace Edith.

KayEn78 · 01-27-2003, 12:50 AM

Oh, I couldn't see Archie getting remarried. Dating? Yes, but not remarried. There's a few episodes where he dates a woman named Katherine (those episodes are good) and there's another one in the last season where he wants to see this one woman, but he finds out she's married (after spending the night with her), when he found out she was married, he felt so guilty about what happened the night before. He had no right to feel guilty, he didn't know...his old fashioned values were showing again. Anyway, I'm glad they didn't have Archie remarry (especially to a younger woman--remember in "The Return of Archie's Brother" when Fred married that 18 year old? Archie would have never done anything like that). If the show had been kept on the air, I wonder what would've happened to Billie and Stephanie. Having Mike and Gloria get back together would've been very interesting.
-Kristi

Dr. Thong · 10-11-2004, 08:51 PM

I believe that the two shows should be considered separate. The reason being is that they have two different vibes. All In The Family was about the day-to-day conflicts and plights of Archie, Edith, Mike and Gloria and how current events and their relationships shaped their lives. When Mike and Gloria left, the show was never the same.

I think they were wise to re-title the show with Jean Stapleton's limited involvement and eventual departure...it became a show about a bar owner coming to grips with being a widower raising a young girl who was coming of age. It wasn't the same show that it was when it began.

The character had also began to soften and mellow - he wasn't the same iracsible bigot he'd been when the show began in 1971. For that reason and the aforementioned cast changes, I feel that the two shows are different animals altogether.

All In The Family is one of the great, classic shows of all-time. A show that made you think, laugh and cry. A cast of characters you'll never forget. Archie Bunker's Place was merely a good show. Certainly a decent, mildly funny show - but nothing more.

dave insinga · 05-24-2005, 02:03 PM

i understood the reason why they did it but i just thought that ther could have been another way edith was such a great character to just kill her off like that it just wasn't right.

Dr. Thong · 05-24-2005, 05:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dave insinga

i understood the reason why they did it but i just thought that ther could have been another way edith was such a great character to just kill her off like that it just wasn't right.

How would they have done it?? Jean Stapleton was gone. Now, an alternative could have been to have her leave Archie, which she would never do.

Another way would to always have her working at the Sunshine Home, which would be foolish. She'd have to come home sometime.

Jean Stapleton chose to leave. She'd been doing the character for 10 years and wanted to move on. That's fine. But the producers of Archie Bunker's Place chose to continue on. I think given the situation, they made the right choice.

You reserve the right to disagree, of course, but I think any other choice would have been very contrived and foolish.

Besides, in my opinion, they should've ended it all two years earlier. When Gloria and the Meathead left for California, they should've ended All In The Family right then and there. Archie was never the same after they left - the conflict was gone. Archie without an opponent (Meathead) isn't any fun.

TVFactFan · 05-26-2005, 09:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr. Thong

How would they have done it?? Jean Stapleton was gone. Now, an alternative could have been to have her leave Archie, which she would never do.

Another way would to always have her working at the Sunshine Home, which would be foolish. She'd have to come home sometime.

Jean Stapleton chose to leave. She'd been doing the character for 10 years and wanted to move on. That's fine. But the producers of Archie Bunker's Place chose to continue on. I think given the situation, they made the right choice.

You reserve the right to disagree, of course, but I think any other choice would have been very contrived and foolish.

Besides, in my opinion, they should've ended it all two years earlier. When Gloria and the Meathead left for California, they should've ended All In The Family right then and there. Archie was never the same after they left - the conflict was gone. Archie without an opponent (Meathead) isn't any fun.

That's the best explanation I ever heard for Archie during the 197-83 era. No opponent at all and that made Archie less entertaining to watch.

01-23-2003, 09:04 PM	#1
60sSitcomFan Member Frequent Poster Join Date: Jan 06, 2002 Location: Toronto Posts: 109	Edith's departure Why didn't the writers just have Edith leave Archie to stay with Gloria in California so she could possibly return at a later date? Was that Jean Stapleton's wish? It wasn't nice to 'kill her off'.

01-25-2003, 01:06 PM	#5
TVJunkie101 Member...you 'member? Senior Member Join Date: May 28, 2002 Location: Florida Posts: 2,838	The Bunker home really was much darker after Edith's death, rarely as bright as it was in the first season of ABP. I don't think they should have killed Edith off, but I agree about how she wasn't appearing in a few episodes she WAS needed in, like Man of the Year, etc. I still think it could have worked the remainder of the 3 seasons and I never minded only seeing Edith occasionally. But, they killed Edith off YEARS ago, lol, not much we can do now.
	__________________ Shawn DVD Reviews \| My TV on DVD List \| Sitcoms Online NewsBlog

01-26-2003, 02:56 AM	#9
Dan Asnis Member Occasional Poster Join Date: Dec 26, 2001 Location: South Brunswick, New Jersey Posts: 65	Ideas about ABP 5th Season 1983-84 It was Norman Lears idea that Archie could get remarried to a younger woman in ABP's 5th season. Maybe Lear would have taken a more active roll in a 5th season of ABP maybe Lear would have agreed to be a active creative consultant. Lear also wanted Reiner to appear on 8 shows or so. Maybe If Gloria was still canceled and CBS kept ABP for the 1983-84 season maybe Sally Struthers could returned Gloria and Joey would have became regulars on ABP and mike would have returned realizing the commune was a mistake and trying relentlessly trying to win Gloria back maybe even with Archie’s help. With Joey back maybe they could have brought Barney’s Granddaughter (AITF the Baby Contest) back Archie and Barney catch the two kids playing doctor with Barney and Archie saying it was the others fault and blaming each other.
	__________________ Dan Webmaster Archie Bunker's Place Home Page Gloria Home Page

01-27-2003, 12:50 AM	#11
KayEn78 Member Frequent Poster Join Date: Dec 23, 2002 Location: Rolling Meadows, Illinois Posts: 201	Re: ABP 5th Season Oh, I couldn't see Archie getting remarried. Dating? Yes, but not remarried. There's a few episodes where he dates a woman named Katherine (those episodes are good) and there's another one in the last season where he wants to see this one woman, but he finds out she's married (after spending the night with her), when he found out she was married, he felt so guilty about what happened the night before. He had no right to feel guilty, he didn't know...his old fashioned values were showing again. Anyway, I'm glad they didn't have Archie remarry (especially to a younger woman--remember in "The Return of Archie's Brother" when Fred married that 18 year old? Archie would have never done anything like that). If the show had been kept on the air, I wonder what would've happened to Billie and Stephanie. Having Mike and Gloria get back together would've been very interesting. -Kristi
	__________________ View my TV Show fan fiction. Have recently completed my Dragnet 1948 story, The Big Witness. Visit me on Facebook! View my blog Kristi's Writing Desk!

10-11-2004, 08:51 PM	#12
Dr. Thong a/k/a "ACK!" Forum Veteran Join Date: Jul 10, 2001 Location: New Hampshire, USA Posts: 5,546	I believe that the two shows should be considered separate. The reason being is that they have two different vibes. All In The Family was about the day-to-day conflicts and plights of Archie, Edith, Mike and Gloria and how current events and their relationships shaped their lives. When Mike and Gloria left, the show was never the same. I think they were wise to re-title the show with Jean Stapleton's limited involvement and eventual departure...it became a show about a bar owner coming to grips with being a widower raising a young girl who was coming of age. It wasn't the same show that it was when it began. The character had also began to soften and mellow - he wasn't the same iracsible bigot he'd been when the show began in 1971. For that reason and the aforementioned cast changes, I feel that the two shows are different animals altogether. All In The Family is one of the great, classic shows of all-time. A show that made you think, laugh and cry. A cast of characters you'll never forget. Archie Bunker's Place was merely a good show. Certainly a decent, mildly funny show - but nothing more.
	__________________ "Sunday has been cancelled due to lack of interest. That is all."

01-24-2003, 10:39 AM	#2
jon123 Member Frequent Poster Join Date: Feb 04, 2002 Location: Temecula Valley, CA Posts: 395	Of course it was a tragedy to kill off one of TV's most beloved characters, but Carroll and the producers felt it was the only way to continue the show. I always felt if they could have talked Jean into appearing in 10 episodes or so a year then Edith wouldn't have had to die. The remaining episodes would then be set in the bar. They may have been able to keep the AITF name that way and then we all could proudly say that AITF ran 13 years and was the 2nd longest running sitcom in history rather than saying it ran 9 and the debate over whether AITF and ABP should be considered seperate shows. Unfortuneately, since Jean wanted out the only way Edith could leave the show would be to die. She may have visited Gloria or one of her other many (usually unseen) relatives for a few weeks at a time but she never would have left Archie for longer than that. To have Archie and Edith divorce would have been unthinkable (besides if they did, Archie would of had to have done something really bad and who would want to watch him after that!). I wished Jean had stayed to the end but I respect her decision to leave as one she felt she had to do. Happy birthday, Jean, and we are glad that in real life you are still very much with us!

01-25-2003, 12:33 PM	#4
jon123 Member Frequent Poster Join Date: Feb 04, 2002 Location: Temecula Valley, CA Posts: 395	Its too bad some kind of compromise with Jean couldn't have been reached. Edith appeared in five episodes (counting Thanksgiving Reunion as two) the first year of ABP but that wasn't enough. There were some like Sammy Davis' return visit or the party honoring Archie as man of the year that Edith should have been there. If she only offered to appear in four or five again I can see why they had to make the painful decision. But if she had appeared in about ten those episodes could have been set more at the Bunker home. It was actually very unpleasant watching Archie date other women and if the show had continued one more year he would have remarried(gasp!). By this time there were enough other characters on the show to have enough storylines for the non-Edith episodes. Also, the occassional "Edith is visiting Gloria" or "Aunt Helen" would have worked if she was there at least half the time. Speaking as one fan, I would not have been disappointed to not see Edith on some episodes rather than have her die. One wonders if the Bunker home would have seemed so dark in the last years if they had done that.

01-25-2003, 08:26 PM	#8
Impressions She died the way she lived Forum 4000 Club Member Join Date: May 08, 2002 Posts: 4,640	I could have seen Edith around a lot longer, my theory is that ABP wasn't as much about a family anymore, with Gloria and Mike moving away and the addition to Stephanie there wasn't as much to talk about, so I'm guessing the writers figured they would make another spin-off because they couldn't use the AITF title anymore. I think AITF was moving on. Jean didn't want to be in the show anymore, so I think the writers made a spin-off about Archie and his bar. Since she didn't want to appear, I think the writers wouldn't use her as much on ABP since it was mostly about his bar and his friends there, and since the show wasn't always involving the home, she wouldn't always be part of the show. I don't think I would have had Archie and Edith divorce and have Archie re-marry, it wouldn't turn out to be the show that it was, it wouldn't be the same. So I think the only way was to have absent during the course of the show. After that, atleast they had a few storylines with the bar, and some of the cast, eventhough she had passed away.

01-27-2003, 12:24 AM	#10
jon123 Member Frequent Poster Join Date: Feb 04, 2002 Location: Temecula Valley, CA Posts: 395	I agree with the last post. I think it was a mistake to ever have a separate Gloria series in the first place. Perhaps, if Gloria had just returned to ABP it wouldn't have been cancelled. Norman's renewed involvement would definetely have helped. It would have been a nice twist to see Archie try to get Mike and Gloria back together, after all at the end of AITF he had finally accepted Mike. But if Archie was going to remarry, I'm also glad it was cancelled before that happened. No one could replace Edith.

05-24-2005, 02:03 PM	#13
dave insinga Member Forum Regular Join Date: May 19, 2005 Posts: 590	i never liked that who edith is dead thing i understood the reason why they did it but i just thought that ther could have been another way edith was such a great character to just kill her off like that it just wasn't right.