Why is Beaver more well regarded than Father? - Sitcoms Online Message Boards

buddy love · 10-26-2002, 12:06 PM

Father Knows Best was one of the most popular and applauded shows of the 50's. Both Robert Young and Jane Wyatt won multiple emmy's for there performances. Father was more popular in the ratings than Leave it to Beaver. Both shows ran six seasons. Yet today Beaver is often considered the better and more enjoyable show. Not putting Beaver down becuz that is a great show too. When I was a kid in the 70's FKB was widely syndicated and I used to watch it after school. Today it is not as syndicated while Beaver is. I think Beaver has that advantage with kids these days in that they know that show better. Plus I think they identify with the adventures of Beaver and Wally more than the Anderson kids. LITB was more of a show centered on the kids with the parents as important, but more incidental characters--they functioned more to provide wisdom and discipline. On FKB the parents were as important as the kids and in many episodes more so. Both Young and Wyatt had been important film actors and it couldn't be otherwise. In fact, many episodes of FKB dealt with the wise and all-knowing Father learning a thing or two from the kids. Yet I often wish that Father was more appreciated today. It was a great show, too.

Mysty Eyes · 10-31-2002, 02:37 AM

You make good points. I think you are correct in that FKB is not as highly regarded simply because it does not get the airplay that Beaver does.

The comment about the "kid" emphasis of Beaver vs the "parent" emphasis of FKB seems valid as well.

I'm no expert, but in addition to the adult stories of FKB, I think that another problem the show might have with today's audience could be the title itself. Though frequently in the show Jim is proven to not know best, the title of "Father Knows Best" is somewhat sexist. The implication is that the "man" knows all, and that the lowly women and children cannot function without his sage leadership.

And you know something? As I sit here typing and thinking about the two shows, I see the following images:

On Beaver I see light rooms, sun, etc.

On FKB I a darker version of this. Rooms with less light, more shadow. A darker set. Maybe I'm remembering this wrong; it's been a while since I've seen the show. But that's what I'm envisioning right now.

John Sterren · 10-31-2002, 11:34 AM

Great job, Misty.

It's amazing how dark and melancholy Father Knows Best can sometimes be. There's one strain of music often played in the early seasons that's as sad as anything Bernard Herrmann wrote for Hitchcock.

One episode in particular, never played anymore, is called "Thanksgiving Day". Kathy writes a poem that wins the prize for best work in her class. Jim becomes very proud. Until he reads the piece and is disappointed. He rips it apart in a rather vicious way, and the little girl overhears him. From that point on, she becomes scared of everything. Jim, of course, winds up apologizing and Kathy comes back to life. But the little girl's fear is very strong, and is perfectly played by Lauren Chapin. (Who, of course, had quite a fearful littlegirlhood of her own.)

The episode, number 8 in the series, was dropped from syndication a long time ago, because of its darkness.

For me, FKB is a far superior show to Beaver, because it's emotional range is much deeper and wider. And it's just as funny, too.

buddy love · 10-31-2002, 11:36 PM

by both of you. Yes I have noticed too that FKB did have darker sets--at times it reminded me of film noir. The music on FKB has a deeper meaning than the standard Beaver music. I know the theme you are talking about too John.

Commander Benson · 11-01-2002, 03:02 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Mysty Eyes

I'm no expert, but in addition to the adult stories of FKB, I think that another problem the show might have with today's audience could be the title itself. Though frequently in the show Jim is proven to not know best, the title of "Father Knows Best" is somewhat sexist. The implication is that the "man" knows all, and that the lowly women and children cannot function without his sage leadership.

While the rest of your comments were accurate, I just can't buy this one, even as a possibility.

Like some of the feminist criticisms about certain terms or phrases, it's more of a matter of looking for a problem that isn't there, rather than an actual problem.

I've watched Father Knows Best for over forty years, since its first run, and I never gave a second thought to its title. I didn't receive any messages, implied or otherwise, from the title. In fact, the original title from its radio days was Father Knows Best? --with the question mark--implying that the father of the show was something of a dolt, or at least of dubious wisdom. And that was the way the radio show was played--as Jim Anderson being something of a minor buffoon--until it was reformatted.

As for the audience, I should think only the most knee-jerk, overly sensitive individual would react negatively to the title.

As Freud said, sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.

Commander Benson

Mysty Eyes · 11-01-2002, 09:53 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Commander Benson
As for the audience, I should think only the most knee-jerk, overly sensitive individual would react negatively to the title.

As Freud said, sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.

Commander Benson

Fair enough. As I said, I am no expert on the matter, and I did say "might" and "could." I am female; the title doesn't bother me at all. There are some who it might offend, though I don't believe that I know anyone personally who would take offense. It was merely a suggestion.

I was a teen and young adult in the sixties and seventies when feminism was rampant. Many girls and women were very serious about anything even slightly sexist.

Commander Benson · 11-02-2002, 10:52 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Mysty Eyes

Many girls and women were very serious about anything even slightly sexist.

Who were just the ones my "knee-jerk, overly sensitive" observation was meant to address. I probably didn't make it clear enough, but I was not including you in that definition. I could tell by the tone of your comments that you apply a great deal of thought and reason to your opinions--or at least seem to.

Commander Benson

Mysty Eyes · 11-03-2002, 01:15 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Commander Benson

Who were just the ones my "knee-jerk, overly sensitive" observation was meant to address. I probably didn't make it clear enough, but I was not including you in that definition. I could tell by the tone of your comments that you apply a great deal of thought and reason to your opinions--or at least seem to.

Commander Benson

Thanks.

I apologize if my reply sounded a bit angry. I assure you that no anger was there. The past month at the office has been tough, and I am a cranky camper. I tried to not let my bad mood show, but I apparently failed.

I felt no offense from you, and I hope that you feel none from me.

(edited for spelling...

)

John Sterren · 11-03-2002, 01:52 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Commander Benson

I've watched Father Knows Best for over forty years, since its first run, and I never gave a second thought to its title. I didn't receive any messages, implied or otherwise, from the title. In fact, the original title from its radio days was Father Knows Best? --with the question mark--implying that the father of the show was something of a dolt, or at least of dubious wisdom. And that was the way the radio show was played--as Jim Anderson being something of a minor buffoon--until it was reformatted.

As for the audience, I should think only the most knee-jerk, overly sensitive individual would react negatively to the title.

As Freud said, sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.

Commander Benson

Very well put, Commander. The last thing this show can be honestly called is "patriarchal". As you pointed out, the "knowledge" which father has is always questioned, changing, being made better -- which means it's always trying to become wiser, more compassionate, more understanding. (What a difference between this sensibility and 95% of today's TV characters who are always the same and are always trying to be the smartest person in the room. Which isn't too hard.)

I watched a couple of early episodes over the last couple days and was again struck by the beauty and mysterious quality of the black-and-white photography. It truly is noir. At its best, worthy of comparison with Nicholas Musaraca and James Wong Howe. I think they must have changed cinematographers midway through, however. Because the last three years do not really look like the first three. The second half of the run has a much flatter, greyer look. Closer to ordinary 50s television -- yet still superior. (Even compared to this, "Leave It To Beaver" looks like it was photographed in someone's garage.)

IMHO, the look of the early years, and the more emotional quality of the characters, make the first half of the run superior to the second half.

Fair winds, sir!

mister bluster · 11-14-2002, 05:35 AM

I agree, I can remember at least one episode each where either Margaret, Betty, Bud, or Kathy knew best about something. These were also very heartwarming shows without being saccharine and without showing family life as being unrealistically perfect, like 50's shows are often accused of doing. They also got in some really good comedy. I love the theme song, "Look for the Silver Lining."

Commander Benson · 11-17-2002, 10:25 AM

Actually, the theme song to Father Knows Best is entitled Waiting (For Love to Find Us) , music by Don Ferris and Irving Friedman and lyrics by Leon Pober.

Yes, there are lyrics to the theme, and they go like this:

"Waiting for love to find us,
Is something worth waiting for.
"Someday, my arms will hold you,
My lips will kiss you, forevermore.

"Yes, waiting can be so lonely,
Yet, somehow, we'll see it through,
"Knowing there's someone waiting right there just for you."

Commander Benson

mister bluster · 11-17-2002, 07:04 PM

Oh, okay. Was it maybe to the same tune as "Look for the Silver Lining?" Or a similar tune? I haven't seen the show for decades. (I don't get cable.) I just listened to the theme song on the web site Tim's TV Showcase and it sounded familiar enough so I thought that's what it was.

buddy love · 11-17-2002, 09:51 PM

Love the lyrics to the theme. Very romantic.

Barnabas1 · 11-18-2002, 12:21 PM

I HATED the father on that show. Ward was more like "Oh
Ward, It's you!" June would say - and Ward said "Well June, I can certainly go back to the office if you would like!" Know what i mean?

thatbirdmartha · 11-19-2002, 04:32 AM

I think LITB just reflects sitcoms of today more than FKB. I mean, you've got the dilemna of kids and a lot of the family sitcoms focus on the kids, with the parents being secondary. FKB was a more developed sitcom where anyone could have a problem. In my opinion, the acting was superior and it had a gentler time. I think you got to see more of the characters. I guess LITB (which I like) is more of a cookie cutter show while FKB would be a 3-course dinner or something. Hope this doesn't sound too stupid. . .

10-26-2002, 12:06 PM	#1
buddy love Member Frequent Poster Join Date: Aug 19, 2002 Posts: 189	Why is Beaver more well regarded than Father? Father Knows Best was one of the most popular and applauded shows of the 50's. Both Robert Young and Jane Wyatt won multiple emmy's for there performances. Father was more popular in the ratings than Leave it to Beaver. Both shows ran six seasons. Yet today Beaver is often considered the better and more enjoyable show. Not putting Beaver down becuz that is a great show too. When I was a kid in the 70's FKB was widely syndicated and I used to watch it after school. Today it is not as syndicated while Beaver is. I think Beaver has that advantage with kids these days in that they know that show better. Plus I think they identify with the adventures of Beaver and Wally more than the Anderson kids. LITB was more of a show centered on the kids with the parents as important, but more incidental characters--they functioned more to provide wisdom and discipline. On FKB the parents were as important as the kids and in many episodes more so. Both Young and Wyatt had been important film actors and it couldn't be otherwise. In fact, many episodes of FKB dealt with the wise and all-knowing Father learning a thing or two from the kids. Yet I often wish that Father was more appreciated today. It was a great show, too.

10-31-2002, 11:34 AM	#3
John Sterren Banned Banned!! Occasional Poster Join Date: Oct 31, 2002 Location: Rose, Arkansas Posts: 61	Great job, Misty. It's amazing how dark and melancholy Father Knows Best can sometimes be. There's one strain of music often played in the early seasons that's as sad as anything Bernard Herrmann wrote for Hitchcock. One episode in particular, never played anymore, is called "Thanksgiving Day". Kathy writes a poem that wins the prize for best work in her class. Jim becomes very proud. Until he reads the piece and is disappointed. He rips it apart in a rather vicious way, and the little girl overhears him. From that point on, she becomes scared of everything. Jim, of course, winds up apologizing and Kathy comes back to life. But the little girl's fear is very strong, and is perfectly played by Lauren Chapin. (Who, of course, had quite a fearful littlegirlhood of her own.) The episode, number 8 in the series, was dropped from syndication a long time ago, because of its darkness. For me, FKB is a far superior show to Beaver, because it's emotional range is much deeper and wider. And it's just as funny, too.
	Last edited by John Sterren; 10-31-2002 at 11:35 AM.

10-31-2002, 11:36 PM	#4
buddy love Member Frequent Poster Join Date: Aug 19, 2002 Posts: 189	excellent points by both of you. Yes I have noticed too that FKB did have darker sets--at times it reminded me of film noir. The music on FKB has a deeper meaning than the standard Beaver music. I know the theme you are talking about too John.

11-17-2002, 10:25 AM	#11
Commander Benson Member Occasional Poster Join Date: Jan 15, 2002 Posts: 55	Father Knows Best Theme Song Actually, the theme song to Father Knows Best is entitled Waiting (For Love to Find Us) , music by Don Ferris and Irving Friedman and lyrics by Leon Pober. Yes, there are lyrics to the theme, and they go like this: "Waiting for love to find us, Is something worth waiting for. "Someday, my arms will hold you, My lips will kiss you, forevermore. "Yes, waiting can be so lonely, Yet, somehow, we'll see it through, "Knowing there's someone waiting right there just for you." Commander Benson

11-18-2002, 12:21 PM	#14
Barnabas1 Member Forum 4000 Club Member Join Date: Dec 01, 2001 Posts: 4,598	I HATED the father on that show. Ward was more like "Oh Ward, It's you!" June would say - and Ward said "Well June, I can certainly go back to the office if you would like!" Know what i mean?
	__________________ My favorite shows :: I Love Lucy, Dark Shadows, Leave it to Beaver, The Munsters, Chico and the Man, and Get Smart. Formerly Babalu and agsfan

10-31-2002, 02:37 AM	#2
Mysty Eyes Dreaming... Senior Member Join Date: Feb 04, 2002 Location: Los Angeles area Posts: 1,144	You make good points. I think you are correct in that FKB is not as highly regarded simply because it does not get the airplay that Beaver does. The comment about the "kid" emphasis of Beaver vs the "parent" emphasis of FKB seems valid as well. I'm no expert, but in addition to the adult stories of FKB, I think that another problem the show might have with today's audience could be the title itself. Though frequently in the show Jim is proven to not know best, the title of "Father Knows Best" is somewhat sexist. The implication is that the "man" knows all, and that the lowly women and children cannot function without his sage leadership. And you know something? As I sit here typing and thinking about the two shows, I see the following images: On Beaver I see light rooms, sun, etc. On FKB I a darker version of this. Rooms with less light, more shadow. A darker set. Maybe I'm remembering this wrong; it's been a while since I've seen the show. But that's what I'm envisioning right now.

11-14-2002, 05:35 AM	#10
mister bluster Member Frequent Poster Join Date: Oct 24, 2002 Posts: 184	I agree, I can remember at least one episode each where either Margaret, Betty, Bud, or Kathy knew best about something. These were also very heartwarming shows without being saccharine and without showing family life as being unrealistically perfect, like 50's shows are often accused of doing. They also got in some really good comedy. I love the theme song, "Look for the Silver Lining."

11-17-2002, 07:04 PM	#12
mister bluster Member Frequent Poster Join Date: Oct 24, 2002 Posts: 184	Oh, okay. Was it maybe to the same tune as "Look for the Silver Lining?" Or a similar tune? I haven't seen the show for decades. (I don't get cable.) I just listened to the theme song on the web site Tim's TV Showcase and it sounded familiar enough so I thought that's what it was.

11-17-2002, 09:51 PM	#13
buddy love Member Frequent Poster Join Date: Aug 19, 2002 Posts: 189	Love the lyrics to the theme. Very romantic.

11-19-2002, 04:32 AM	#15
thatbirdmartha Member Occasional Poster Join Date: Nov 18, 2002 Posts: 24	My 2 cents worth I think LITB just reflects sitcoms of today more than FKB. I mean, you've got the dilemna of kids and a lot of the family sitcoms focus on the kids, with the parents being secondary. FKB was a more developed sitcom where anyone could have a problem. In my opinion, the acting was superior and it had a gentler time. I think you got to see more of the characters. I guess LITB (which I like) is more of a cookie cutter show while FKB would be a 3-course dinner or something. Hope this doesn't sound too stupid. . .