Who killed Jay Given?

[Schmo]

Jay Given was an attorney and political power broker in East Chicago, Indiana, who was shot to death in 1981 at an Elks Club. Was he murdered by a political rival? In my opinion the Chicago Mafia controlled the Indiana city and a thorough investigation of Given’s murder would implicate a lot of prominent people in the corruption.
https://unsolvedmysteries.fandom.com/wiki/Jay_Given

[TheCars1986]

John Cardona. He owned the same exact type of gun that was used in the murder, a rare Detonics .45 caliber. He was present at the scene where Jay Given was murdered. Page two of these reports mentions two witnesses: one was the one who observed Given talking to another man shortly before he was murdered, and the man was described as taller than Given, with black curly hair and was "stocky"; the other witness who was parked outside of the Elks club when he heard the shot, and he said he did not see anyone fleeing the scene. The one witness who saw Given talking to the stocky man was also in the presence of Cardona that night, and Cardona drove him back to the police station to get a statement. Prior to reaching the station however, they stopped at the hospital where Given was taken. The witness found this odd and no explanation was given.

I do think Cardona was the mastermind. I do not think he pulled the trigger. I think the biggest obstacle in charging Cardona is that the witness who saw Given talking to a stocky man with curly hair and then within seconds Given was murdered, this witness was also in the presence of John Cardona and never said it was Cardona who he saw talking to Given. I believe the curly haired man was there to kill Given, and probably used Cardona's gun.

[Schmo]

It does strike me as odd that Given would be killed with an easily-identifiable weapon, unless the assassin(s) were assured there would be no proper investigation or arrests.

[TheCars1986]

Originally Posted by Schmo

It does strike me as odd that Given would be killed with an easily-identifiable weapon, unless the assassin(s) were assured there would be no proper investigation or arrests.

IMO, Cardona figured he could retrieve the casing after the murder, and when that didn't happen, he could have gained access to it where he could tamper with it...which is exactly what happened.

[Schmo]

Originally Posted by TheCars1986

IMO, Cardona figured he could retrieve the casing after the murder, and when that didn't happen, he could have gained access to it where he could tamper with it...which is exactly what happened.

I think that police investigator who kept the bullet in his drawer was an accessory to Given’s murder. I don’t think the crime was strictly the result of a personal grudge between Given and Cardona, but was part of a power struggle in the criminal syndicate that dominated East Chicago.

[1990 UM fan]

Originally Posted by Schmo

I think that police investigator who kept the bullet in his drawer was an accessory to Given’s murder. I don’t think the crime was strictly the result of a personal grudge between Given and Cardona, but was part of a power struggle in the criminal syndicate that dominated East Chicago.

I read years ago that the son of Paul DiCharia, the investigator you are referring to, said his father was not a good man.

Also can't help that Jay would be shot and killed within earshot (no pun) of hundreds of people, prominent and ordinary. Why not wait until he was alone to drag further suspicion off of you?

I'm also going to loosely say this, but I have always felt that Jay Given was a victim of racial insensitivity, but not blatantly saying he was racist.

[TheCars1986]

Originally Posted by 1990 UM fan

Also can't help that Jay would be shot and killed within earshot (no pun) of hundreds of people, prominent and ordinary. Why not wait until he was alone to drag further suspicion off of you?

IMO, Cardona was there and wasn't the triggerman, or the witness would have said he was the one he saw speaking to Jay before he was shot. So it was someone else. I think Cardona set this up, but do not think he was the triggerman.

[Huskerz85]

I think it's pretty open and shut. Cardona was definitely in on it (along with possibly the investigator featured in the segment - who said the murder weapon was locked up, when the aforementioned article stated otherwise).

Two questions:

-Did the mayor at the time, Robert Pastrick, have anything to do with it? (could he have ordered it or otherwise paid Cardona to do it/have it done)

-Did Cardona actually pull the trigger or did Mark Warholic? (mentioned in an article somewhere as the unknown person seen talking to given) ?

I initially was going to suggest that Cardona perhaps was acting to set up Given and that Warholic was the shooter.

Thinking about it more, I don't think Pastrick was involved. Cardona was just too much of a hot head and way too sloppy, so much so that Pastrick would have to be implicated at some point. Cardona was almost *too* obvious about how he was following Given, his alibi (being in the bar) didn't hold up, he failed a polygraph and he went to the same hospital Givens was taken to after the shooting.

The segment mentioned possible changes in the 'lay of the land' as it were if Givens political maneuvering paid off and something about Cardona going back to walking a beat or whatever. His career & political allies both being threatened is reason enough to want Givens dead. Though he was sloppy, his allies (and possibly the mayor if you want to believe he was in on it) had enough clout to make enough people clam up and even skip town

[Schmo]

And if the Chicago Outfit (the Mafia) had East Chicago under its thumb they would have certainly OK’d Given’s murder.

[TheCars1986]

Originally Posted by Huskerz85

-Did the mayor at the time, Robert Pastrick, have anything to do with it? (could he have ordered it or otherwise paid Cardona to do it/have it done)

Possible. He and Given used to be close and Given attending the fundraiser of his opponent probably ruffled some feathers.

Originally Posted by Huskerz85

-Did Cardona actually pull the trigger or did Mark Warholic? (mentioned in an article somewhere as the unknown person seen talking to given) ?

Warholic was the guy who says he went to go to the bathroom and saw Given talking to a stocky man with curly black hair, and that while he was in the bathroom, he heard the shot and went outside and saw Given dead. The other witness was someone who had just pulled up across from the Elks Lodge and heard the shot, but didn't witness anyone fleeing the building. Warholic could not have seen Cardona talking to Given or else he would have identified the man talking to Given as Cardona. Unless of course this guy who was talking to Given was a distraction so Cardona could shoot him.

Originally Posted by Huskerz85

Thinking about it more, I don't think Pastrick was involved. Cardona was just too much of a hot head and way too sloppy, so much so that Pastrick would have to be implicated at some point. Cardona was almost *too* obvious about how he was following Given, his alibi (being in the bar) didn't hold up, he failed a polygraph and he went to the same hospital Givens was taken to after the shooting.

The segment mentioned possible changes in the 'lay of the land' as it were if Givens political maneuvering paid off and something about Cardona going back to walking a beat or whatever. His career & political allies both being threatened is reason enough to want Givens dead. Though he was sloppy, his allies (and possibly the mayor if you want to believe he was in on it) had enough clout to make enough people clam up and even skip town

I think the "machine" in East Chicago knew exactly that Cardona was involved all along, but protected him because of his loyalty to the corrupt Pastrick.