Body in the Basement: The death of Amanda Antoni

[drew790]

A new wave of Unsolved Mysteries are upon us...

Amanda Antoni was found in a massive pool of her own blood at the bottom of her basement staircase while her husband was out of town visiting his mother. She was last on heard on the phone yelling at her barking dog before the call unexpectedly cut off. When her husband returned home he let the dog out, a dining room chair overturned and her phone thrown across the room on the floor with the screen cracked.

Investigation quickly ruled out the husband and theories presented was that his sister had something done to her as revenge for CPS taking her kids away, a potential affair based on an underwear choice, transients via her back gate, or that her death was the result of an accidental fall since no other DNA was found in the basement other than hers.

What are everyone's thoughts?

[drew790]

Coming out of the episode I feel like per usual with the new show there's really not enough information given to form any specific theories, or jog any investigation. We don't really come away with knowing much about the victim and their life. What was her friends circle like? What were her extracurricular activities? How well was her cleaning business doing, did she have any weird customers?

The accidental fall theory certainly is possible. She could have sustained enough of a head injury that making it back up the stairs wasn't something she was able to do, or may have been too dazed to think to do. The phone being across the room doesn't negate this like the episode suggests, to me it goes to explain why it was shattered if as she fell it flew across the room. But why the dining room chair? (and why has no one since thought to put a railing over such an obvious drop point?!)

A potential killer would certainly have to be a master if they left zero DNA, prints, dirty shoe prints from the back yard, and zero entanglement with the big dog. Anything's possible but in this era to find absolutely nothing forensically of a second person is pretty hard to explain.

[Mysteryphile]

What doesn't make sense to me is how the piggy banks head got broken off...but there was dust on it etc like it hadn't been moved. (so wasn't used to hit her on the head). If the dog tripped her and she fell...how would that have broken the head off?
As far as her footprints at the bottom of the stairs...I think someone was still upstairs and that's why she didn't go up. Also explains why the pets didn't go down there with her.
But no dna anywhere...can't explain that.

[drew790]

My thing with the pets and the someone upstairs theory is if some stranger had attacked their owner it's super odd that the dog wouldn't have attacked them and left DNA or blood in the upstairs that way. As for why they didn't go down stairs .... pets can be weird? I once had a cat that was afraid to go into my bathroom because I got a new bath mat. I dunno. Maybe the blood scared them?

It's strange that they didn't find any foot prints from an attacker in the basement with her in all that blood, only her own. Also interesting that there apparently was no forced entry at the back door, since the question of if the husband unlocked it when he let the dog out was brought up. You'd assume if they had all these problems with transients in their yard they'd keep the backdoor locked.

Maybe she knocked and broke it as she fell? (or was pushed).

The thing for me with the dog tripping her thing is why would the dining room chair be flipped over. The phone is explainable IMO, the chair's strange for me. Stranger than missing the laundry pile.

[TheCars1986]

This was a great episode. The teaser about this being a murder or accident was confusing to me because for the first 35 minutes or so there is no way you would think this was an accident. The complete lack of any foreign or unknown DNA, fingerprints, blood, etc. tells me that this woman unfortunately tripped, probably face first (which she landed on the piggy bank head first and pushed it back into the wall but the railing probably protected it from falling off of that ledge) and then fell down the stairs. She obviously woke up at some point and wandered around, probably in a complete daze.

The dog didn't go down in the basement because it was scared (the scream, the woman falling, the blood). Probably the same for the cat. Dog could have knocked the chair over also. There is no real plausible scenario that exists in which she was murdered. Yes, someone could have pushed her. But then they just wait around, without ever going into the basement to make sure she was dead, and wait it out? What sense does this make? "She didn't want to go upstairs because her killer was up there" is absurd. This person didn't just stand at the top of the stairs for the entire weekend. They would have had to have used the bathroom or eaten at some point. I suppose it is possible that someone she knew pushed her and they fled in a panic and got lucky that she never made it out of the basement and died...but who would have had the motive to do so?

[ScaryFog]

I lean towards accident. No evidence of an intruder. She was on the phone and didn't say anything like "Who are you, why are you in my house?".
She wasn't talking to anyone that she would have let in the house. No evidence of an argument with someone in the house like the sister-in-law. Just a noise, then the phone cut out.
Most likely an accident.

[IBMcginty]

So full disclosure I havent seen this. I did have Netflix when the first series was out and wasnt impressed, as most things Netflix they seemed to stretch 15 minutes of content to an hour with lots of drone shots/atmosphere. Nice to look at but not much substance.

So I looked at the case online and trying to not spoil it, it isnt exactly unsolved.

https://x.com/CalgaryPolice/status/1818710706893865425

It seems like there are some interesting/puzzling things aspects to it but for my money there are so many cases out there that could possibly generate a lead or whatever to actually gain information on.

The reality is though that they are doing this for entertainment purposes first, not advancing a case, at least for the true crime segments.

[Labonte18]

Originally Posted by ScaryFog

I lean towards accident. No evidence of an intruder. She was on the phone and didn't say anything like "Who are you, why are you in my house?".
She wasn't talking to anyone that she would have let in the house. No evidence of an argument with someone in the house like the sister-in-law. Just a noise, then the phone cut out.
Most likely an accident.

I concur. Let me add some other items/thoughts in here. For both sides.

1) That stairway is a freaking death trap. Good Lord. Who in their right mind builds something like that? What's wrong with you Canada? Make you builders put rails in. That was halfway a damn hole in the floor.

2) Boo on UM because they didn't give the explanation for the COD. It was exsanguination (Blood loss) but.. Why? the head injury wasn't bad enough for that. I *THINK* I saw when they scanned over some documents, like the autopsy report something about the femoral artery Which.. Now.. THAT certainly would cause the amount of blood we saw. Can someone answer WHY she bled to death? Am I right about the femoral artery?

3) If it was a torn femoral artery.. She would have had about 15 minutes to live on the outside.. 5 minutes of consciousness, most likely. And, since she was alone.. 5 minutes. With the head injury, which, likely was a pretty bad concussion.. I totally buy the 'woozy and confused'

4) Some of the blood spray and locations.. Don't add up with accident. I mean, there was blood on every wall and it looked like on the ceiling, even.

5) They had the footprints.. Footprints are like finger/handprints. They never mentioned if they tested and confirmed, those were HER footprints in the blood.

6) The 'smears' in the blood.. Seizure? Certainly a possibility with the blood loss.

7) The dog(s) are the biggest sticking point for me. That's.. strange. I SUPPOSED it's possible that the dog was the cause of the fall and it felt guilty.. Maybe it came down the stairs, but didn't get on the floor.. Maybe that's why her footprints (we assume) went to the stairs.. The dog was coming downstairs and she sent it back up? Didn't want it tracking blood through the house?

8) The overturned chair.. That bugs me, too.. The phone, I can kinda buy.. She's going ass over teakettle and the arms would flair wildly.. The phone certainly could have been thrown during that time.. but.. The chair.. That needs an answer. Phone thrown wouldn't have knocked that over. Maybe she was going after the dog to get it to stop barking, tipped the chair at that time? I can come up with ways that happens, but.. It gets into that 'reaching' area a bit.. Not nice, clean with a bow on top.

9) Where is the blood on the stairs? if her head hit the piggy bank.. She still had to continue falling down.. Seems there should have been some blood there.


All told.. Based on the evidence.. Accident certainly seems to be the most likely.. But.. There are certainly things that don't fit nicely into a package about that theory. It's just.. There's too many things that don't match intruder for that to be more likely in my eyes.

One other note.. The neighbors with the idea that the dog was barking a "Get out of here" bark.. I'd say that bark can EASILY be confused with a "My master is badly hurt and i'm scared" bark. I think what they heard was the dog barking after she went down the stairs.

I got no problem with those who think this is nefarious.. I don't agree with you, but, hey.. Not going to say you're crazy for thinking it. Unless you're pointing at the husband, who.. good Lord, UM.. You tried to lead us down that road and swerved us, didn't you? Notice how they didn't bring him in the story for about 15 minutes, talked to amanda's brothers who basically said "We thought it COULD have been him" before dropping in "Nope, no way it was him".

[drew790]

Originally Posted by Labonte18

One other note.. The neighbors with the idea that the dog was barking a "Get out of here" bark.. I'd say that bark can EASILY be confused with a "My master is badly hurt and i'm scared" bark. I think what they heard was the dog barking after she went down the stairs.

Or maybe just "hey get away from the back fence, stranger."

[blacksymbiote]

I've wondered if the broken piggybank might be unrelated to her death at all. Perhaps she broke it accidentally and tried putting it back together, but it didn't work.

[Labonte18]

Originally Posted by blacksymbiote

I've wondered if the broken piggybank might be unrelated to her death at all. Perhaps she broke it accidentally and tried putting it back together, but it didn't work.

The dent in the drywall behind it, as well as the pieces of it on the stairs is good enough for me that it was.. 'involved' in the incident.

Does seem.. A bit of a stretch that it'd get hit so perfectly to break and remain on the shelf, yet, so far as I could tell.. No pieces of it remained on the shelf..

That's why I only say accident seems most plausible. I wouldn't say I was certain it was an accident.. Just.. The evidence most points to that for me.

[ghosthouse]

Originally Posted by Labonte18

The dent in the drywall behind it, as well as the pieces of it on the stairs is good enough for me that it was.. 'involved' in the incident.

Does seem.. A bit of a stretch that it'd get hit so perfectly to break and remain on the shelf, yet, so far as I could tell.. No pieces of it remained on the shelf..

That's why I only say accident seems most plausible. I wouldn't say I was certain it was an accident.. Just.. The evidence most points to that for me.

They indicated in the episode that there were pieces of the piggy bank in her forehead.

[ghosthouse]

This episode was fascinating and it scared the heck out of me. Gave me the "are my doors locked" vibes like the show used to do back in the day.

So there are some things that I can't explain, but this appears to me to be an accident.

That stairway down into the basement is freaking BANANAS. If my basement stairs were like that it would be a matter of time before I sailed down them into the basement.

What it boils down to is that there is zero evidence that anyone was in the house. The idea that a killer could have left no blood, no finger prints, no shoe prints, no DNA -- at all in that mess of a basement crime scene doesn't work for me.

I get the idea she fell into that - accident waiting to happen - stairway entry and hit the piggy bank head first before falling down the stairs into the basement. Confused/knocked silly, who knows, she managed to bleed out over time, while she obviously walked around the basement.

I don't know about anyone else's pets but my dog freaks out when I go anywhere but when I go to my basement he stands at the top and whines until I come back up. And cats have basically entered meme status in regard them not caring what happens to their owners.

What I can't explain is the ending to the phone call or the broken phone or the tipped over chair and why there was SO much blood from a head wound.

I suppose she could have fallen out of the chair at the table, sending her phone flying, and hit her head on the kitchen floor?

They don't fully mention how broken her phone was but i've cracked a phone screen pretty good dropping it straight out of my hand. Perhaps the fall from the chair banged her head and it led to her falling down the stairs?

Someone above mentioned something about a torn femoral artery -- that would certainly explain the blood loss all over the basement, but I think someone else mentioned -- a torn femoral artery isn't something that affords you the ability to amble around your basement over time spilling and dropping blood in various splatter forms. It's a quick thing.

Usually when they air these it takes a week or so before the "What UM Left Out" hit the streets so I do look forward to any more info. All in all, this was a great episode. It's not Classic UM of course but it's good tv.

[ghosthouse]

Originally Posted by Mysteryphile

What doesn't make sense to me is how the piggy banks head got broken off...but there was dust on it etc like it hadn't been moved. (so wasn't used to hit her on the head). If the dog tripped her and she fell...how would that have broken the head off?

From what they showed...I don't think the head broke off. To me it looked like there was a 'conical' break in the side of it. If someone told me that it was head butted I would 100% believe it.

[skeletor]

Seems too much of a stretch the dog and cats would have been in the house for more than a whole day without going down into the basement, without some external factor stopping them.

Possible external factors:

Drugged animals - nah.

Someone in the house the whole time, keeping them out until the husband arrived. This would only be possible if they left just before the husband arrived home - which wouldn't make sense - no reason for an unknown intruder to do that. Unless it was the sister (not enough info given on why they excluded her as a possibility) and she knew when he was about to return, or was expecting him because he was in on it.

Or the sister did it on her own, and was there when he arrived home and he chased her out, then discovered his wife dead, and didn't want to get his sister in trouble, until it looked like he'd be taking the blame for it. Then he starts suggesting his sister to the police. It's possible the sister could have kept the pets outside for most of the time, until before she left. Or she locked them out when she left. Or the pets came inside when victim's husband, Lee, came home. He could have left this information out when he was interrogated.

Or his sister (or any assailant/stranger) could have done it by accident, attacking but not expecting to kill her, then freaked out and left, locking the animals outside, and the husband didn't notice the animals were outside and followed him in.

With no prints on anything, the intruder/assailant could have worn gloves, Amanda gets up from her chair in a hurry, knocking it over, or the dog does, the assailant smashes the phone out of her hand, attacks her, pushing her backward, perhaps hits Amanda in the head with a weapon, Amanda's head or other body-part hits the piggy-bank, and fragments are imbedded in her, as she falls down the stairs. It's also possible that she was dragged/carried down the stairs and kicked or flailed, getting fragments of the pig in her body. The assailant didn't need to step into the basement. They could hit or push her from the base of the stairs if Amanda tried to come back up. After it's clear Amanda's dead, they have no reason to stay to make sure the animals don't go down there (unless someone asked them to keep an eye on the dogs) - so it's either a person who knows the dogs, who's going to keep an eye on them, or the dogs get locked outside until the husband gets home. If you never go into the basement and don't touch anything, then you've only got footprints (of normal dirt from outside) to clean up. That shouldn't be difficult.

Can't remember if they said she was sexually assaulted. They did say her pants were partially pulled down. Could be she was attacked when on the toilet?

Could be a complete stranger, planning to sexually assault her, before things got competely nuts. They leave the house, with the animals outside.

These are all stupid/weird ideas, but the whole circumstance, no matter what the explanation is weird.


Or husband and his sister planned it for when he was away, giving him an alibi. He tells the police all the gas stations he stopped at along the way so they can check the CCTV footage. His sister shows up and kills her and they text back and forth, using Amanda's phone. He phones his sister. We only have his word that it was Amanda he spoke with. His sister smashes the phone after the call. Sister either stays in the house until he arrives, stopping the pets from going down there, and cleaning up any possible areas where prints might be left. She never goes into the basement. It seems unlikely she'd stay in the house a whole day and a half with the pets without feeding them, and also wait for her brother, but if she has drug issues, you never know wtf she's thinking. She could have locked them outside straight after pushing Amanda down the stairs, then left. When Lee came home and walked in, he'd then let the animals in with him - we only know they were in the house when he found her because he says they were in the house. They may have been outside the whole time.

Maybe Lee killed her before he left, and locked the animals outside? And had his sister at the house do the phone text thing?

Was the husband's mother interrogated? What if the person on CCTV footage is just someone who looks like the husband, who took the husband's phone to use as an alibi, while the husband stayed at home, killed the wife, and they texted back and forth?

Or husband gets someone else (not his sister) to take care of it. Using methods mentioned above.