Do you think the lucky choir church explosion was insurance fraud?

[JannTosh]

That’s a theory that many put out for that event

[Labonte18]

It was 1950 in Nebraska.. I dare to guess that the church likely didn't have any insurance.

Many of the churches burned in the 90's didn't carry insurance. Various reasons for it, i'm sure.. But..

I'd think that would have to be the first question asked in this situation. Did the church even have insurance? At least, that should be asked before positing a theory such as that.

Anyone know the answer to that?

[Clockwork]

I would say that in the 1950s in rural Nebraska that it is very possible that they did not have insurance. I did a bit of searching and it wasn't until about 100 years ago that church insurance started coming up. So the 1920s maybe? Perhaps someone else can corroborate this with me, or has other things to add. I think what a lot of churches did then was what the Amish still to today and that is if anyone had their church burn down the community would help build a new one. Therefore not needing insurance. I know that it would have been considered a bit of a gamble to get insurance at one point, or thought of to be that way.

With that being said, as a Christian myself I have always felt that story was legit. Why did the church blow up? I don't know, maybe it was even arson that was never probably investigated. But obviously my thought would be if God wanted to ensure no one was in that building when it exploded then He would have no problem delaying a few people with various hiccups. So do I think it is likely a miracle? Yes I look at it that way. I don't think it was done for insurance.

[Labonte18]

I'd just call the story a series of weird coincidences coupled, likely, with some exaggeration more than a miracle.

Was the choir director really as strict as was said? Was no one really ever late?

[dynoguy88]

The explosion was caused by a gas leak in a pipeline, underground beneath the church. There was no way this explosion was intentionally set.

It's also highly doubtful that the church had insurance. It was such a tiny building, with a small congregation. How much of a dire financial strain could they have possibly been under to even try such a thing?

This was one of the more charming segments, especially refreshing since nobody involved lost their life. They build the story up with all this tension leading up to the big moment. And the back story of Unsolved Mysteries filming the segment in Beatrice and how the crew used waaaaay too much dynamite to cause the explosion was pretty funny. There was nothing left. The building they blew up looked much worse than the actual church ruins in 1950....



It's also kind of confusing that UM didn't mention other choir members who were spared that night and their reasons for also being late. But still an amazing story....

[XCalibur]

Originally Posted by Labonte18

I'd just call the story a series of weird coincidences coupled, likely, with some exaggeration more than a miracle.

Was the choir director really as strict as was said? Was no one really ever late?

Even if people were late sometimes, I'd have to say the odds of every single member being late on this particular night, and all delayed by a different and rather trivial thing is pretty astronomical. As one of the choir members who was interviewed pointed out, there would be room for doubt if it was a church bus coming up with a flat tire or something like that that had all the members. But this? Doubtful. I think he had a valid point.

Like the Wyoming school explosion segment where all those kids survived that bomb, people hostile to religious faith have shown a lot of contempt for both incidents. Both were unlikely outcomes for different reasons mind you, but unlikely nevertheless.

I'm not saying that's you by the way, but many are and its a bad look. Even if you are not person of faith both incidents should be looked as great and fortunate things. And I believe they were miracles.

[TheCars1986]

It wasn't an explosion, but I am almost certain that Reggie White's church being torched was for an insurance scam.

[Labonte18]

Originally Posted by XCalibur

Even if people were late sometimes, I'd have to say the odds of every single member being late on this particular night, and all delayed by a different and rather trivial thing is pretty astronomical. As one of the choir members who was interviewed pointed out, there would be room for doubt if it was a church bus coming up with a flat tire or something like that that had all the members. But this? Doubtful. I think he had a valid point.

Like the Wyoming school explosion segment where all those kids survived that bomb, people hostile to religious faith have shown a lot of contempt for both incidents. Both were unlikely outcomes for different reasons mind you, but unlikely nevertheless.

I'm not saying that's you by the way, but many are and its a bad look. Even if you are not person of faith both incidents should be looked as great and fortunate things. And I believe they were miracles.

I'm not anti-religious.. I just figure God has other things to do.

Originally Posted by TheCars1986

It wasn't an explosion, but I am almost certain that Reggie White's church being torched was for an insurance scam.

And the.. What? 15 others that were burned? They were burned to cover up that insurance scam?

Brilliant frickin' scam to burn your own church and there not be enough insurance to cover it.

that's like intentionally getting into a wreck with an uninsured motorist.

[TheCars1986]

Originally Posted by Labonte18

And the.. What? 15 others that were burned? They were burned to cover up that insurance scam?

I was unaware that Reggie White was associated with the 25 other churches that were burned that were spread out over the span of eight states.

Originally Posted by Labonte18

Brilliant frickin' scam to burn your own church and there not be enough insurance to cover it.

Yeah you really are intent on rebuilding the church when you receive building supplies as donations and you wind up selling them. The leaders of the church (not White) received donations. Promised to rebuild. Sold building supplies that were donated with the expressed purpose of rebuilding. Never did. The one pastor featured on UM later went to prison for drug and firearm charges. Knoxville's assistant fire chief said someone would have had to have spent 30-60 minutes in there setting up the molotov cocktails, pouring the kerosene, etc. $44,274 of the donated money was missing. Donations from the University of Tennessee were also "missing". The National Council of Churches, who donated well over $9 million to help rebuild churches across the South said that it gave White's church $100,000. The head pastor said he only received $50,000. His accounting of the funds raised to rebuild the church included:

$505,000 from insurance, $247,000 from Wisconsin residents, $110,000 from Knoxvillians and surrounding states, and $50,000 from the National Council of Churches.

That totaled $912,000. He spent $1,057,500.

He spent over a million dollars. The church was never rebuilt. But I'm sure it was totally on the up and up!

[Jon]

If this was true, the seemingly well-meaning people interviewed were incredibly effective in covering up their scheme behind their earnest demeanors. They came across as genuine to a degree we didn't see from most of the reenactment actors in UM segments. I don't believe that's what happened, but if it did, I can't help but be impressed at their commitment to getting a new church (or whatever their endgame would have been in that hypothetical scenario)

[Clockwork]

Originally Posted by TheCars1986

It wasn't an explosion, but I am almost certain that Reggie White's church being torched was for an insurance scam.

In his neighborhood there were a lot of arson incidents happening. White did speak out about it calling on black celebrities to stand up and do something about their communities being burned down (he'd have really hated seeing the summer of 2020, I did too). But I think it was genuine.

[TheCars1986]

Originally Posted by Jon

If this was true, the seemingly well-meaning people interviewed were incredibly effective in covering up their scheme behind their earnest demeanors. They came across as genuine to a degree we didn't see from most of the reenactment actors in UM segments. I don't believe that's what happened, but if it did, I can't help but be impressed at their commitment to getting a new church (or whatever their endgame would have been in that hypothetical scenario)

I believe Reggie White was genuine. The Upton brothers, I do not. You do not receive over a million dollars, get busted for cocaine and guns, and never make any effort or attempt to rebuild the church that you promised to if you were genuine.

[Jon]

Originally Posted by TheCars1986

I believe Reggie White was genuine. The Upton brothers, I do not. You do not receive over a million dollars, get busted for cocaine and guns, and never make any effort or attempt to rebuild the church that you promised to if you were genuine.

I was referring to the thread title about the lucky choir church.

I don't really have an opinion about the Reggie White church, as I just don't know enough about it

[TheCars1986]

Originally Posted by Jon

I was referring to the thread title about the lucky choir church.

I don't really have an opinion about the Reggie White church, as I just don't know enough about it

My bad. Yes, I believe the fact that not one member of that choir was there or even within the vicinity to receive injuries, was a miracle.

[mozartpc27]

Originally Posted by Labonte18

I'd just call the story a series of weird coincidences coupled, likely, with some exaggeration more than a miracle.

Was the choir director really as strict as was said? Was no one really ever late?

I love this segment, but I noticed years ago that the UM segment employs some somewhat deceptive narration in order to heighten the apparent effect of the story. In another thread years ago, I posted this to explain what I mean:

In re-watching the segment, I see where I went astray: the segment does identify the choir's leader as "Martha Paul," and her daughter, Marilyn Paul-Mitchell, does refer to the choir director as her mother. However, when the segment covers Marilyn Paul's reason for being late, it refers to Marilyn as the choir's accompaniest, but makes no second mention that her mother was the choir's director. Indeed, Martha Paul's name is never mentioned again after the first minute or so of the segment, and is not mentioned at all when recounting the story of why each choir member was late. The segment does, of course, tell us why Martha's daughter was late - she overslept during a little catnap - but in so telling it never mentions her mother by name, nor does it remind viewers that Marilyn's mother was also the choir director. This has the effect of suppressing that information and its importance to some degree. Marilyn Paul's oversleeping of course made Marilyn late, but the segment fails to emphasize that this also made Martha Paul, the choir's director, late as well.

I'm guessing this little elision was made because, had they emphasized that the choir director was late because she didn't want to disturb the slumber of her teenage daughter, a choir member, it would have painted a very different portrait of exactly how demanding Martha Paul was of punctuality. If she was so hell-bent on everyone being on time every week, and made it a point with choir members that they MUST be on time if they wished to sing in her choir, why would she let her own daughter oversleep, causing herself to be late? That would be, among other things, the worst kind of double-standard.

The obvious answer to that question, despite what the segment wants us to believe, is that reports of Martha Paul's unwavering insistence on punctuality were probably somewhat exaggerated. This makes me like her more as a person: after all, inflexibility over the trivial is hardly an admirable quality. But it also does point to a more prosaic explanation for why everyone was late that night: Martha Paul was not the clock-punching taskmaster the segment wants to have us believe she was. People wandering in closer to 7:30 than 7:25 was probably not nearly as uncommon an occurence as the segment and specifically Marilyn Paul suggest.

The people who were spared a terrible fate because they were late that night, of course, are no less fortunate than they were before, and their feeling of the presence of the hand of God in everyone's survival should not be diminished. Nonethelss, realizing that Martha Paul, the choir's director and the person supposedly responsible for maintaining strict punctuality among choir members was in fact willing to let her own self be late so her teenage daughter - the choir's accompaniest - could sleep a few extra minutes that day, suggests that Martha probably wasn't as inflexibly insistent on everyone always arriving 5 minutes early in order to be considered on time, and thus does tend to make the whole event appear somewhat less miraculous. And I am sure that is exactly why the segment was edited the way it was: to obscure that probable reality as much as possible.