Ward & June's nationalities ever discussed? - Sitcoms Online Message Boards

vitoscotti · 12-04-2021, 02:39 AM

W & J nationalities seem a mystery?

Cx · 12-04-2021, 02:48 AM

I would assume from their names, sensibilities and tastes, that they were uber WASPs.

vitoscotti · 12-04-2021, 04:42 AM

June gives no hints with her generic meals. No Polish, German, Irish or other specialty recipes.

CosmicCharlie · 12-04-2021, 01:05 PM

Just guessing ...

Bronson ?

Bronson is a relatively rare Anglo-Saxon surname originating out of England and means “son of Brown”

Cleaver ?

The saga of the name Cleaver follows a line reaching back through history to the days of the Anglo-Saxon tribes in Britain. It was a name for someone who worked as a person who worked with wood.

Sgt. Saunders · 12-04-2021, 03:32 PM

I agree that the Cleavers were probably of British descent. Almost all of the LITB characters had WASPish surnames: Rutherford, Bates, Haskell, Landers, Canfield, Foster, Whitney, Hensler. Although the surnames of Woods and Rogers are of Irish origin. (I went to high school with a guy named Frank Rogers and he was so Irish-looking that he could have appeared in “The Quiet Man” or more recently, in the superb film, “Brooklyn,” starring the incredible Saoirse Ronan.)

Of course, the inimitable Larry Mondello was the only LITB character with a Southern European surname. Although, Larry didn’t really look any of the Italian-American kids I grew up with and went to school with.

Oh yeah, I wonder if June’s Bronson family members were related to screen tough guy Charles (Buchinsky) Bronson?

PracTz · 12-04-2021, 05:10 PM

Wally is short for Wallace which is a rather famous Scottish family (and means 'Welshman'). I wonder if either Ward or June might have had some Scottish ancestry?

vitoscotti · 12-04-2021, 05:49 PM

Then again, a person could have an English surname and only be a tiny % English bloodlines.

CosmicCharlie · 12-04-2021, 06:19 PM

Beaver

Etymology. The English word "beaver" comes from the Old English word beofor or befor and is connected to the German word Biber and the Dutch word bever. The ultimate origin of the word is from an Indo-European root for "brown". The genus name Castor has its origin in the Greek kastor and translates as "beaver"

stevea · 12-04-2021, 07:56 PM

Dam good research on Beaver...

Sgt. Saunders · 12-04-2021, 09:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vitoscotti

June gives no hints with her generic meals. No Polish, German, Irish or other specialty recipes.

Wasn’t there an LITB episode where June is about to place spaghetti into a bowl of boiling water? I wonder if Ward and the boys enjoyed having a bowl of Pasta Fagioli or Lentil soup?

In “Godfather I,” there’s a great scene in which Pete Clemenza (actor Richard Castellano) is preparing a big bowl of spaghetti sauce for a group of “soldiers.” You see Clemenza showing Michael Corleone (Al Pacino) how to put in some sausages, peppers and a cup of sugar into the sauce. Sugar takes out some of the bitterness as the spaghetti sauce as it cooks. I remember my Italian grandmother also putting sugar into the sauce, something that the women did back in Sicily and Naples.

Don’t the Cleavers also talk about having chicken chow mein for dinner in another episode?

It would have been cool to have seen Wally, Beaver, Eddie and Lumpy hanging out at the local pizzeria on Friday night, enjoying pizza and some delicious calzones. Mangia!

Tankeryanker · 12-04-2021, 10:53 PM

^^^
What was the type of frozen foods they bought when June said something about the little old ladies that used to have their pictures on the packages?

I am thinking it was Chinese.

vitoscotti · 12-05-2021, 02:15 AM

June making spaghetti. Poor Ward eating heavily sauced spaghetti wearing a suit and tie with white shirt. And no napkin bib. And those flakey Italian bread sticks would leave a lot of crumbs. Would Ward dare have a glass of wine with his Italian cuisine?

Didn't aunt Martha talk about the Bronson roots in England?

Did Beaver ever eat at Chueys? Ward could explain Mexican food to Beaver. Like Andy to Opie when the Taylors were going to move to S. America. Andy tells Opie " They eat something called a tortilla". Wow. No kiddin'.

I believe Ward picked out the frozen Chinese dinners much to June's displease. I think it's the same episode Ward makes a snide remark about a Bronson newborn girl.

Again, though many of the tv brass are Jewish. Not one Jew in Mayfield.

And the generic surnames chosen for show characters. Not one Pole, or Italian? No Italian deli or grocer.
No ethnic businesses downtown?

Cx · 12-05-2021, 04:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vitoscotti

June making spaghetti. Poor Ward eating heavily sauced spaghetti wearing a suit and tie with white shirt. And no napkin bib. And those flakey Italian bread sticks would leave a lot of crumbs. Would Ward dare have a glass of wine with his Italian cuisine?

Didn't aunt Martha talk about the Bronson roots in England?

Did Beaver ever eat at Chueys? Ward could explain Mexican food to Beaver. Like Andy to Opie when the Taylors were going to move to S. America. Andy tells Opie " They eat something called a tortilla". Wow. No kiddin'.

I believe Ward picked out the frozen Chinese dinners much to June's displease. I think it's the same episode Ward makes a snide remark about a Bronson newborn girl.

Again, though many of the tv brass are Jewish. Not one Jew in Mayfield.

And the generic surnames chosen for show characters. Not one Pole, or Italian? No Italian deli or grocer.
No ethnic businesses downtown?

It got me thinking...

Other than the "brass" of the show; Mosher et.al, all the other names seen on the closing credits are very very Anglo: other than the Mondellos and Pete Rugolo for the music.

stevea · 12-05-2021, 09:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vitoscotti

Did Beaver ever eat at Chueys? Ward could explain Mexican food to Beaver. Like Andy to Opie when the Taylors were going to move to S. America. Andy tells Opie " They eat something called a tortilla". Wow. No kiddin'.

They could have kept the Chuey character rather than make him a one-off. The kid was as good a kid actors as the others were.

There could have been plot twists where Larry was slow to accept him, and Beaver interceded to help with that.

vitoscotti · 12-05-2021, 10:50 AM

Other than Chuey & his family no one I remember has a hint of an ethnic accent, or spoke a 2nd language. Which was quite common as I remember late '50s - early '60s. Even if Larry's family was Italian. He and his family showed no visible pride, or hints of their heritage.

I know late 50s tv played it safe. But LITB has to be the king of playing it safe going full throttle generic.

Someone mentioned a pizza parlor. Is pizza even ever mentioned in LITB? If not, or rarely? Was pizza too ethnic for M & C?

Besides the stellar cast, writing oddities, and inconsistencies have to be a reason SCOL LITB is so active compared to other older shows.

12-04-2021, 02:39 AM	#1
vitoscotti Member Senior Member Join Date: Feb 14, 2017 Location: Illinois Posts: 1,084	Ward & June's nationalities ever discussed? W & J nationalities seem a mystery?

12-04-2021, 02:48 AM	#2
Cx Member Frequent Poster Join Date: Feb 01, 2020 Posts: 209	I would assume from their names, sensibilities and tastes, that they were uber WASPs.

12-04-2021, 04:42 AM	#3
vitoscotti Member Senior Member Join Date: Feb 14, 2017 Location: Illinois Posts: 1,084	June gives no hints with her generic meals. No Polish, German, Irish or other specialty recipes.

12-04-2021, 01:05 PM	#4
CosmicCharlie Member Senior Member Join Date: Jan 14, 2019 Location: Massachusetts Posts: 2,459	Just guessing ... Bronson ? Bronson is a relatively rare Anglo-Saxon surname originating out of England and means “son of Brown” Cleaver ? The saga of the name Cleaver follows a line reaching back through history to the days of the Anglo-Saxon tribes in Britain. It was a name for someone who worked as a person who worked with wood.

12-04-2021, 03:32 PM	#5
Sgt. Saunders Member Forum Regular Join Date: Nov 27, 2021 Location: The Garden State Posts: 546	I agree that the Cleavers were probably of British descent. Almost all of the LITB characters had WASPish surnames: Rutherford, Bates, Haskell, Landers, Canfield, Foster, Whitney, Hensler. Although the surnames of Woods and Rogers are of Irish origin. (I went to high school with a guy named Frank Rogers and he was so Irish-looking that he could have appeared in “The Quiet Man” or more recently, in the superb film, “Brooklyn,” starring the incredible Saoirse Ronan.) Of course, the inimitable Larry Mondello was the only LITB character with a Southern European surname. Although, Larry didn’t really look any of the Italian-American kids I grew up with and went to school with. Oh yeah, I wonder if June’s Bronson family members were related to screen tough guy Charles (Buchinsky) Bronson?

12-04-2021, 05:10 PM	#6
PracTz Member Senior Member Join Date: Jul 14, 2002 Location: United States of America [Happily Living in the 20th Century] Posts: 2,711	Wally is short for Wallace which is a rather famous Scottish family (and means 'Welshman'). I wonder if either Ward or June might have had some Scottish ancestry?

12-04-2021, 05:49 PM	#7
vitoscotti Member Senior Member Join Date: Feb 14, 2017 Location: Illinois Posts: 1,084	Then again, a person could have an English surname and only be a tiny % English bloodlines.

12-04-2021, 06:19 PM	#8
CosmicCharlie Member Senior Member Join Date: Jan 14, 2019 Location: Massachusetts Posts: 2,459	Beaver Etymology. The English word "beaver" comes from the Old English word beofor or befor and is connected to the German word Biber and the Dutch word bever. The ultimate origin of the word is from an Indo-European root for "brown". The genus name Castor has its origin in the Greek kastor and translates as "beaver"

12-04-2021, 07:56 PM	#9
stevea 22 Years On Sitcoms Moderator Forum Legend Join Date: Aug 13, 2003 Location: Indy Posts: 45,015	Dam good research on Beaver...

12-04-2021, 10:53 PM	#11
Tankeryanker Do you like my monkey picture? Forum 3000 Club Member Join Date: Dec 22, 2014 Posts: 3,051	^^^ What was the type of frozen foods they bought when June said something about the little old ladies that used to have their pictures on the packages? I am thinking it was Chinese.

12-05-2021, 02:15 AM	#12
vitoscotti Member Senior Member Join Date: Feb 14, 2017 Location: Illinois Posts: 1,084	June making spaghetti. Poor Ward eating heavily sauced spaghetti wearing a suit and tie with white shirt. And no napkin bib. And those flakey Italian bread sticks would leave a lot of crumbs. Would Ward dare have a glass of wine with his Italian cuisine? Didn't aunt Martha talk about the Bronson roots in England? Did Beaver ever eat at Chueys? Ward could explain Mexican food to Beaver. Like Andy to Opie when the Taylors were going to move to S. America. Andy tells Opie " They eat something called a tortilla". Wow. No kiddin'. I believe Ward picked out the frozen Chinese dinners much to June's displease. I think it's the same episode Ward makes a snide remark about a Bronson newborn girl. Again, though many of the tv brass are Jewish. Not one Jew in Mayfield. And the generic surnames chosen for show characters. Not one Pole, or Italian? No Italian deli or grocer. No ethnic businesses downtown?

12-05-2021, 10:50 AM	#15
vitoscotti Member Senior Member Join Date: Feb 14, 2017 Location: Illinois Posts: 1,084	Other than Chuey & his family no one I remember has a hint of an ethnic accent, or spoke a 2nd language. Which was quite common as I remember late '50s - early '60s. Even if Larry's family was Italian. He and his family showed no visible pride, or hints of their heritage. I know late 50s tv played it safe. But LITB has to be the king of playing it safe going full throttle generic. Someone mentioned a pizza parlor. Is pizza even ever mentioned in LITB? If not, or rarely? Was pizza too ethnic for M & C? Besides the stellar cast, writing oddities, and inconsistencies have to be a reason SCOL LITB is so active compared to other older shows.