Has anyone ever bit the hand that fed them harder... - Sitcoms Online Message Boards

Dick York was Darrin · 03-10-2021, 12:11 AM

Has anyone ever bit the hand that fed them harder than Peter Tork and Michael Nesmith? They literally sabotaged the Monkees into oblivion.

Both Davey Jones and Mickey Dolenz liked being Monkees, and would have been fine riding the gravy train for as long as possible. But Tork and Nesmith absolutely destroyed that thing.

Cocoa8 · 09-26-2021, 10:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dick York was Darrin

Has anyone ever bit the hand that fed them harder than Peter Tork and Michael Nesmith? They literally sabotaged the Monkees into oblivion.

Both Davey Jones and Mickey Dolenz liked being Monkees, and would have been fine riding the gravy train for as long as possible. But Tork and Nesmith absolutely destroyed that thing.

I agree, that was dumb about them wanting to write their own songs.

GentlemanJim · 12-19-2021, 04:51 PM

I have a belief that "very little happens for no reason at all" The Monkees got used by the production company pulling the strings, so it's not a huge surprise to me they would fight back.

Okay, so you're the band, you are out on tour supporting your first album. And the record company releases the second album without even telling you ....you are completely unrehearsed and unprepared to perform any of the music on that album. You don't see that as "kicking the dog"?

No wonder it bit back.

Dick York was Darrin · 12-22-2021, 10:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GentlemanJim

I have a belief that "very little happens for no reason at all" The Monkees got used by the production company pulling the strings, so it's not a huge surprise to me they would fight back.

Okay, so you're the band, you are out on tour supporting your first album. And the record company releases the second album without even telling you ....you are completely unrehearsed and unprepared to perform any of the music on that album. You don't see that as "kicking the dog"?

No wonder it bit back.

I can see them being a little upset by it, but they should have known the 2nd album was going to be released. At least Mickey and Davey should have known anyway, they sang on the album.

Still, they were handed a pretty good gig. They should have just sucked it in. They're a year into it. No way they should have expected no glitches to come with their new found super-star status.

GentlemanJim · 12-22-2021, 11:15 AM

When you think of all the bands who could not co-exist despite their success, the list is not a short one.

I guess that once your dreams come true, and all you have to do is just walk out on a stage and you make a million dollars before you utter your first note, it has a way of altering your priorities?

A conviction that your partners are somehow getting more than their share seems to be a common denominator.

If Nesmith had seized control of the band while it was still on the upswing, I might be more inclined to share your negativity. But Nesmith seized the helm of a sinking ship. Kinda ballsy when you think about it?

Yong Fang · 12-08-2022, 08:50 AM

I know that Michael Nesmith didnt rejoin "the band" when they had their revival in the 1980's. The other three did and were successful.

Many famous musicians and groups didnt write their own songs. Some did like John Lennon and Paul McCartney. Some like Elton John had a professional songwriter. Others, and especially country singers and probably rockers too, bought songs from independent songwriters. Richard Carpenter of the duo "The Carpenters" discovered a song from a bank commercial and got on the phone to see who owned it to see if he could buy the rights, and it was their greatest hit and signature song.

From what I vaguely know, the four "Monkees" were actors and not professional musicians and believe none of them even knew how to play an instrument but learned how. I think people have a talent for writing, I wish I could write stories, and have tried, but lack the talent totally. Got to start somewhere, and some people have the talent and who is to say these guys didnt....

But it is another thing if they submit stuff which is garbage and they refuse to see their limitations as such.

GentlemanJim · 12-08-2022, 10:02 AM

I've been watching the "Ed Sullivan Presents" shows on MEtv sundays, and have been seeing quite a few glitches that make me question the integrity of the entire entertainment industry.

Just recently Sly and the Family Stone was on, and Sly singing and playing keyboards, he and one of the gals walk up into the audience for a little bit of "butt bumping" with the yokels, while the rest of the band plays background.

Then, as they run back to their on stage positions, the keyboard resumes while Sly is still a good 10 feet away from his station. obviously faked!!

It's kinda interesting to watch the Mamas and the Papas play Sullivan too, some of the songs have pretty impressive electric guitar licks, while John Phillips is just standing up on stage strumming away on his acoustic.

So, I think at least a part of it is arrogance of the industry itself, believing they can get away with such stuff, whenever it suits them. JMHO.

stevea · 12-08-2022, 10:10 AM

American Bandstand was one thing, but lip-syncing is another thing on that originally prime-time show.

They shouldn't have done it.

Wasn't there a big kerfufle when Mariah Carey was caught doing that on New Years Ee show a few years ago?

GentlemanJim · 12-08-2022, 10:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stevea

Wasn't there a big kerfufle when Mariah Carey was caught doing that on New Years Ee show a few years ago?

By gosh you are right! I had forgotten about that.

People in general are somewhat elitist about their vocations. People I know who went to work building cars for instance, are convinced that all non-industry people around them are ignorants when it comes to whatever their specialty is.

SO, I guess it shouldn't be a shock that the entertainment industry is similarly vain?

Eventually I concluded that the Monkees debacle is an abject lesson in mass hysteria. The fans decided who the guys in the band were supposed to be, and they just couldn't live up to it. The funny part being that the band members got sucked up in it too.

Perhaps it's that latter part that makes it noteworthy?

03-10-2021, 12:11 AM	#1
Dick York was Darrin Member Occasional Poster Join Date: Feb 06, 2021 Location: Virginia Posts: 99	Has anyone ever bit the hand that fed them harder... Has anyone ever bit the hand that fed them harder than Peter Tork and Michael Nesmith? They literally sabotaged the Monkees into oblivion. Both Davey Jones and Mickey Dolenz liked being Monkees, and would have been fine riding the gravy train for as long as possible. But Tork and Nesmith absolutely destroyed that thing.

12-19-2021, 04:51 PM	#3
GentlemanJim Concerns, Support, & Feedback Forum Veteran Join Date: Dec 26, 2019 Location: The back country Posts: 5,443	I have a belief that "very little happens for no reason at all" The Monkees got used by the production company pulling the strings, so it's not a huge surprise to me they would fight back. Okay, so you're the band, you are out on tour supporting your first album. And the record company releases the second album without even telling you ....you are completely unrehearsed and unprepared to perform any of the music on that album. You don't see that as "kicking the dog"? No wonder it bit back.
	__________________ On my word as a gentleman!

12-22-2021, 11:15 AM	#5
GentlemanJim Concerns, Support, & Feedback Forum Veteran Join Date: Dec 26, 2019 Location: The back country Posts: 5,443	When you think of all the bands who could not co-exist despite their success, the list is not a short one. I guess that once your dreams come true, and all you have to do is just walk out on a stage and you make a million dollars before you utter your first note, it has a way of altering your priorities? A conviction that your partners are somehow getting more than their share seems to be a common denominator. If Nesmith had seized control of the band while it was still on the upswing, I might be more inclined to share your negativity. But Nesmith seized the helm of a sinking ship. Kinda ballsy when you think about it?

12-08-2022, 08:50 AM	#6
Yong Fang Member Forum 3000 Club Member Join Date: Aug 04, 2009 Location: Memphis Tennessee Posts: 3,072	I know that Michael Nesmith didnt rejoin "the band" when they had their revival in the 1980's. The other three did and were successful. Many famous musicians and groups didnt write their own songs. Some did like John Lennon and Paul McCartney. Some like Elton John had a professional songwriter. Others, and especially country singers and probably rockers too, bought songs from independent songwriters. Richard Carpenter of the duo "The Carpenters" discovered a song from a bank commercial and got on the phone to see who owned it to see if he could buy the rights, and it was their greatest hit and signature song. From what I vaguely know, the four "Monkees" were actors and not professional musicians and believe none of them even knew how to play an instrument but learned how. I think people have a talent for writing, I wish I could write stories, and have tried, but lack the talent totally. Got to start somewhere, and some people have the talent and who is to say these guys didnt.... But it is another thing if they submit stuff which is garbage and they refuse to see their limitations as such.

12-08-2022, 10:02 AM	#7
GentlemanJim Concerns, Support, & Feedback Forum Veteran Join Date: Dec 26, 2019 Location: The back country Posts: 5,443	I've been watching the "Ed Sullivan Presents" shows on MEtv sundays, and have been seeing quite a few glitches that make me question the integrity of the entire entertainment industry. Just recently Sly and the Family Stone was on, and Sly singing and playing keyboards, he and one of the gals walk up into the audience for a little bit of "butt bumping" with the yokels, while the rest of the band plays background. Then, as they run back to their on stage positions, the keyboard resumes while Sly is still a good 10 feet away from his station. obviously faked!! It's kinda interesting to watch the Mamas and the Papas play Sullivan too, some of the songs have pretty impressive electric guitar licks, while John Phillips is just standing up on stage strumming away on his acoustic. So, I think at least a part of it is arrogance of the industry itself, believing they can get away with such stuff, whenever it suits them. JMHO.

12-08-2022, 10:10 AM	#8
stevea 22 Years On Sitcoms Moderator Forum Legend Join Date: Aug 13, 2003 Location: Indy Posts: 44,174	American Bandstand was one thing, but lip-syncing is another thing on that originally prime-time show. They shouldn't have done it. Wasn't there a big kerfufle when Mariah Carey was caught doing that on New Years Ee show a few years ago?