Angel: Doyle or Wesley?

[Christopher]

I've been rewatching Angel weekly trying to get into these first couple of seasons that I haven't watched all the way through yet. The show was so boring the first half of season 1. I was starting to cut it off again because I couldn't get into it. However, now that Wesley is in the show, there's a chemistry between David, Charisma, and Alexis that makes it fun to watch now. There wasn't a lot of chemistry with the cast when Glenn was there. I don't think Doyle clicked with Angel and Cordy like Wes does.

So my question, who do you prefer; Doyle or Wes?

[RetroGuy2000]

My understanding is that Glenn Quinn had a major drug problem on the show, and that is the real reason his character was axed so quickly. It's really a shame that he never recovered from his addiction.

I definitely preferred Alexis as Wesley Wyndham-Pryce, who I thought did an awesome job as the by-the-book Watcher who ended up alienating his Slayer, Faith. That S3 Buffy storyline was so well told, and Alexis was a huge part of why it had such impact. I remember being very excited to see him being added to the Angel cast.

The David-Charisma-Alexis trio turned out to be the perfect team for the show. As you say, they did have amazing chemistry. While I never much cared for characters like Gunn, Connor, and Fred, I have absolutely nothing to complain about with Wesley. Brilliant from beginning to end.

During Season 4, the writers sidelined both Cordelia and Wesley, in favor of storylines featuring Gunn, Conner, and Fred, and that was such a huge mistake. I will never understand how Season 4 became such a trainwreck, but it did, and a great part of that trainwreck was losing the chemistry between Angel, Wes, and Cordy, who no longer had many scenes together.

[Christopher]

Originally Posted by RetroGuy2000

My understanding is that Glenn Quinn had a major drug problem on the show, and that is the real reason his character was axed so quickly. It's really a shame that he never recovered from his addiction.

I definitely preferred Alexis as Wesley Wyndham-Pryce, who I thought did an awesome job as the by-the-book Watcher who ended up alienating his Slayer, Faith. That S3 Buffy storyline was so well told, and Alexis was a huge part of why it had such impact. I remember being very excited to see him being added to the Angel cast.

The David-Charisma-Alexis trio turned out to be the perfect team for the show. As you say, they did have amazing chemistry. While I never much cared for characters like Gunn, Connor, and Fred, I have absolutely nothing to complain about with Wesley. Brilliant from beginning to end.

During Season 4, the writers sidelined both Cordelia and Wesley, in favor of storylines featuring Gunn, Conner, and Fred, and that was such a huge mistake. I will never understand how Season 4 became such a trainwreck, but it did, and a great part of that trainwreck was losing the chemistry between Angel, Wes, and Cordy, who no longer had many scenes together.

I remember I liked season 4 when I first watched it during its first run on The WB. I liked the story of Cordelia being evil and then the episode where she's fighting Willow with magic. I might feel differently when I rewatch it again. I liked season 6 of Buffy the most over a decade ago and then began liking seasons 2 and 3 more as I got older.

I remember when Glenn died, David gave his condolences. I think he may have been the only one Glenn was close to on the set. I also heard rumors he was fired because of his drug problem. But even if he didn't have the drug problem and stay, I wouldn't have preferred that. I didn't see him clicking well with the cast on screen. Alexis and Charisma bickering is funny compared to Glenn's scenes of him and Charisma bickering.

I'm also starting to see your point of Cordelia being funnier than Anya. I think she has better writing material for that aspect on Angel than she did on Buffy. I still like Anya more though. Her scenes in Buffy are Emmy worthy IMO. The Body when she doesn't know how to react to someone dying and not knowing why people have to die is a heart wrenching scene still to this day. I'm glad Charisma went to Angel so Emma could come in.

[RetroGuy2000]

Originally Posted by Christopher

I remember I liked season 4 when I first watched it during its first run on The WB. I liked the story of Cordelia being evil and then the episode where she's fighting Willow with magic. I might feel differently when I rewatch it again. I liked season 6 of Buffy the most over a decade ago and then began liking seasons 2 and 3 more as I got older.

For me, Seasons 2 and 3 of Buffy are near flawless. Angel Season 4 is much less so. They had a showrunner who left partway through the season, the cast say they were given conflicting information, and Charisma hated much of her storyline (but it didn't matter anyway, because she spent the last six episodes in a coma, and six more episodes as a floating "higher being" with no lines). Her Oedipus episodes, where she sleeps with her own foster-son, are cringe-worthy.

I remember when Glenn died, David gave his condolences. I think he may have been the only one Glenn was close to on the set. I also heard rumors he was fired because of his drug problem.

The week Glenn died, there were several anonymous statements from producers about the drug problems. This later got hushed up, and a new, official story was born: that his role had simply "run its course" and that it was always the plan to kill his character off. Yet Alexis had already stated that his addition to the cast was "sudden".

But even if he didn't have the drug problem and stay, I wouldn't have preferred that. I didn't see him clicking well with the cast on screen. Alexis and Charisma bickering is funny compared to Glenn's scenes of him and Charisma bickering.

Yep!

I'm also starting to see your point of Cordelia being funnier than Anya. I think she has better writing material for that aspect on Angel than she did on Buffy. I still like Anya more though. Her scenes in Buffy are Emmy worthy IMO.

Oh, don't get me wrong. Anya is hilarious, as you say. But Cordy was the OG comedy gold. (I've never met Charisma, but I have met both James Marsters and Emma Caulfield, and they are as funny and intelligent as their on-screen personas).

The Body when she doesn't know how to react to someone dying and not knowing why people have to die is a heart wrenching scene still to this day.

Oh, do not get me started on The Body. Such a heart-breaking episode.

I'm glad Charisma went to Angel so Emma could come in.

It worked out well, at least for the first three Angel seasons, for Charisma. I know she wasn't happy with that fourth year.

[Christopher]

Originally Posted by RetroGuy2000

Charisma hated much of her storyline (but it didn't matter anyway, because she spent the last six episodes in a coma, and six more episodes as a floating "higher being" with no lines). Her Oedipus episodes, where she sleeps with her own foster-son, are cringe-worthy.

I remember when this happened. Charisma was pregnant in real life. There were so many rumors floating around online that Joss wasn't happy and felt forced to write in her pregnancy. There were fans, or people who love spreading rumors, that said Charisma was fired for being pregnant. It was a punishment from Joss for Charisma getting pregnant. I don't know how much of that is true. I'm doubting it is because didn't Charisma join Joss for the reunion with Entertainment Weekly? I can't imagine a woman getting fired for being pregnant wanting to see her boss again.

Originally Posted by RetroGuy2000

The week Glenn died, there were several anonymous statements from producers about the drug problems. This later got hushed up, and a new, official story was born: that his role had simply "run its course" and that it was always the plan to kill his character off. Yet Alexis had already stated that his addition to the cast was "sudden".

Oh so Alexis was never planned to join Angel? I did not know that. I remember Nicholas Brendon said in the last season of Buffy he would never be on Angel because his character didn't like Angel. Well if Wesley who had little to no interaction with Angel on Buffy could join the series, I think Xander could have that fifth year.

Originally Posted by RetroGuy2000

Oh, don't get me wrong. Anya is hilarious, as you say. But Cordy was the OG comedy gold. (I've never met Charisma, but I have met both James Marsters and Emma Caulfield, and they are as funny and intelligent as their on-screen personas).

I didn't see Cordelia as comedy gold on Buffy. She had some funny scenes like Homecoming when she grabs the spatula and tells Buffy that's better than the phone because she can slap them with it Cordelia had some fun times but I think she fits better on Angel. Anya seems more suitable with the Buffy gang.

Originally Posted by RetroGuy2000

It worked out well, at least for the first three Angel seasons, for Charisma. I know she wasn't happy with that fourth year.

Yeah, that may be because Joss really wasn't happy he had to write her pregnancy in. He always said he knew how he wanted his shows to go in the future seasons. Maybe Charisma getting pregnant ruined that and he might have took it out on her.