What happened to Rey Rivera? (Netflix UM) - Sitcoms Online Message Boards

Todd Mueller · 07-01-2020, 09:27 AM

If you haven't watched the first episode of UM on Netflix, go watch it now.

Wow... There's a lot to unpack here. As someone said on another thread, this sounded like a pretty straightforward case at the beginning of the episode but it got really weird.

Here are the main three things that bother me:

1) Where did he "fall" from? I say that because I'm not convinced he did. I highly doubt it was from the roof of the Belvedere.
2) What does Porter Stansberry have to hide? Obviously, he knows a lot that he isn't saying. Just a brief Google search on this guy shows you he is a snake oil salesman and possible a complete crackpot. He's already been fined over a million dollars by the SEC for securities fraud.
3) The note... What's up with the note behind the computer? (That totally took me back to the $2 bill found in the underwear of Charles Morgan.)

So Rey left in a hurry after getting a call from the office of his employer, which is run by Porter Stansberry. That was the catalyst for him taking off so quickly, yet no one at the company seems to know a thing and they put out a gag order on talking to the police very quickly. Uh-huh...

The note to me is the biggest "WTH?" moment of this story. It was full sized paper shrunken down, folded, wrapped in plastic, and taped to the back of the computer. No way in hell that was a suicide note. You want a suicide note to be found... This was code for something (again, just like Charles Morgan). The problem is that it only seems to make sense to Rey, and didn't give any specific clues on what it was really about. So it must either be a memory jogger for him or passwords to a file, website, etc. that used a code that would help him unlock what he needed.The fact that it was folded up, wrapped in plastic, and taped tells us this wasn't something he referred to often, if ever. This was an insurance of some kind. Just super weird.

The other thing that bugs me is the hole in the roof. It is not very big, which says he was either coming straight down, or the scene is staged. I'm obviously not an expert on this, but you have to imagine if he was thrown off a building awake he would have been flailing around. If he was not conscious, I can't believe he would stay vertical to fall like that. I do think it's possible that if he fell vertically on purpose, he could go through the roof to make that narrow hole and that would explain why his shins were destroyed. But that is really hard to imagine.

The suicide angle is funny because we have seen other cases of verified suicide where the person left no clue or wasn't acting funny. No offense to Rey's brother, who is obviously torn up by this, but he said that Rey showed no signs of being depressed or suicidal. That doesn't need to be there, but also, he was obviously stressed about something the last week or two of his life. His brother probably didn't see that but Rey's wife sure did. He really seemed to love his wife, so if he did kill himself, I can't believe he wouldn't leave her a note of some kind. I'm 99% sure this was not a straight up suicide.

What a fascinating case. I'm glad they chose this one to be the first of the new UM on Netflix.

infinityluxe · 07-01-2020, 09:51 AM

I just come here to say Rey is fine as hell! What a beautiful man he is/was.

sdb4884 · 07-01-2020, 10:09 AM

So pleased with the first two cases in the storytelling. Anyway to your point; the friend not being interviewed was odd.

bip05 · 07-01-2020, 10:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Todd Mueller

If you haven't watched the first episode of UM on Netflix, go watch it now.

Wow... There's a lot to unpack here. As someone said on another thread, this sounded like a pretty straightforward case at the beginning of the episode but it got really weird.

Here are the main three things that bother me:

1) Where did he "fall" from? I say that because I'm not convinced he did. I highly doubt it was from the roof of the Belvedere.
2) What does Porter Stansberry have to hide? Obviously, he knows a lot that he isn't saying. Just a brief Google search on this guy shows you he is a snake oil salesman and possible a complete crackpot. He's already been fined over a million dollars by the SEC for securities fraud.
3) The note... What's up with the note behind the computer? (That totally took me back to the $2 bill found in the underwear of Charles Morgan.)

So Rey left in a hurry after getting a call from the office of his employer, which is run by Porter Stansberry. That was the catalyst for him taking off so quickly, yet no one at the company seems to know a thing and they put out a gag order on talking to the police very quickly. Uh-huh...

The note to me is the biggest "WTH?" moment of this story. It was full sized paper shrunken down, folded, wrapped in plastic, and taped to the back of the computer. No way in hell that was a suicide note. You want a suicide note to be found... This was code for something (again, just like Charles Morgan). The problem is that it only seems to make sense to Rey, and didn't give any specific clues on what it was really about. So it must either be a memory jogger for him or passwords to a file, website, etc. that used a code that would help him unlock what he needed.The fact that it was folded up, wrapped in plastic, and taped tells us this wasn't something he referred to often, if ever. This was an insurance of some kind. Just super weird.

The other thing that bugs me is the hole in the roof. It is not very big, which says he was either coming straight down, or the scene is staged. I'm obviously not an expert on this, but you have to imagine if he was thrown off a building awake he would have been flailing around. If he was not conscious, I can't believe he would stay vertical to fall like that. I do think it's possible that if he fell vertically on purpose, he could go through the roof to make that narrow hole and that would explain why his shins were destroyed. But that is really hard to imagine.

The suicide angle is funny because we have seen other cases of verified suicide where the person left no clue or wasn't acting funny. No offense to Rey's brother, who is obviously torn up by this, but he said that Rey showed no signs of being depressed or suicidal. That doesn't need to be there, but also, he was obviously stressed about something the last week or two of his life. His brother probably didn't see that but Rey's wife sure did. He really seemed to love his wife, so if he did kill himself, I can't believe he wouldn't leave her a note of some kind. I'm 99% sure this was not a straight up suicide.

What a fascinating case. I'm glad they chose this one to be the first of the new UM on Netflix.

I have to finish working for the day before I delve into new UM, but I have to say it is *very* promising to see a good review from Todd Mueller right off the bat. I'll be back after I've watched!!

drew790 · 07-01-2020, 11:59 AM

I loved it.

Robert Stack's image being in the opening gave me the feels. If I had to say anything as a negative, having only watched the one episode, the background music could stand to be creepier. If we get a Season 2 a new composer's needed.

On to Rey.

I don't believe it was a suicide. The financial angle and the Russian stock thing are massive red flags. I was disappointed they only started focusing on Porter Stansberry in the last 17 minutes of the whole hour. I'm sure there was more there. Like in the note, they don't give it close up attention, but if you pause it the note literally says "Porter Stansberry (if he didn’t do it himself)”

I feel a piece of the puzzle is missing with regard to the house guest. Everyone's coming in but she left? I'm not saying she's involved but I'm a bit confused by that whole scenario. It came off like they were "meh" to the whole missing person unfolding around them. Is it feasible though that something went on between those two that led to emotional turmoil and the call from Stansberry is a red herring? Yes. But this is also probably just an issue with the narrative in post production.

I tend to also wonder if the note was code. Who tapes their favorite movies to the back of a monitor like that? And with that weird line about Stansberry mentioned above in it?

BDR · 07-01-2020, 01:47 PM

If he got a phone call and then left why didn't they track the call to see who it was?

alistaircranium · 07-01-2020, 01:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BDR

If he got a phone call and then left why didn't they track the call to see who it was?

They did. The call came from his work but they were unable to track down the specific extension.

Guardian · 07-01-2020, 01:58 PM

I’m gonna have to give it another watch. I stayed up extra late to watch the first episode, so even while enjoying that, my mind isn’t the best while tired. But that being said, my inkling to start with was that this is just a suicide. But as the story unfolded, things got weird and I don’t think suicide is a possibility any longer in this case.

The note almost has to be a code of some sort. Or at the least it has some specific meaning other than either a suicide note or just Rey recording his thoughts. Nobody talks (or writes) like that in person or in just a note to keep around the house. I don’t know much about Free Masons, but my knee jerk reaction is that Rey left this as code of some kind. I think the Free Mason quotes might indicate where to begin finding the key to unlock this. Perhaps where the quote coming from (was it a poem or book? - sorry, I was getting sleepy while watching) might begin to unlock this. Such as the Declaration of Independence was supposedly the key to unlock the Beale treasure code. Just my initial thoughts there.

About the scene itself, I don’t know. I could see it being staged, or not. The phone and glasses aren’t necessarily indicating staged scene to me. If Rey jumped, I could see his impact into the roof causing enough impact to both knock the glasses and phone from his pockets and offset the impact on those items themselves enough that they landed where they did, apparently undamaged (hopefully I’m making sense there). Also, I would think anyone with half a brain staging the scene would take the opportunity to actually break those items before leaving them where they were if they were trying to make it look like suicide.

Also, the other thing about the scene is the access. Rey or his killer(s) would have had to get access somehow to be found where he was. If suicide, how did Rey gain access? If someone staged the scene, why not just throw him off a bridge or something? Or a building that could more conceivably be accessed? Could the idea have been to try and frame someone? In any case, the building has more significance to me in this case than just being either the tool used.

There are a lot of things to delve into on this case, but those things stuck out to me more than anything honestly.

ghosthouse · 07-01-2020, 02:01 PM

I just finished this episode. The format has changed to more of a 48 Hours or Dateline but I just really enjoyed it and found it to be a really compelling mystery. Robert Stack is gone and the weekly episodic style of the OG with the call us if you can help, check back next week for updates and more is gone. You really can't go back to it. Some people have trouble slapping the UM name on an episode of 48 Hours...and i can understand that...but at least the show has some kind of present day extension. Either way, i think you'll find that this ep is a good mystery worth checking out.

1. I am inclined to believe this was a suicide.

There is little evidence at all - but certainly none to indicate he was thrown or pushed off the building. If it's hard to understand how he could have jumped off the building and landed where he did...then it is just as hard to understand how someone throwing or pushing him off could accomplish it.

The idea that someone would devise a plan to get him up there and then throw him off...in the face of so many buildings and windows seems unlikely to me.

2. I do think something is obviously up with his friend and employer. The call from them was the impetus for him leaving and eventually to his death. Now, one might say that they lawyered up because they were complicit in his death...but it's also plausible that they realized he was privy to damaging information about the company (it certainly sounds like they were up to some shady s*it) and they were hedging their bets in case the damaging information either led to him killing himself -- or would come out as a result of the investigation to his death.

3. The note taped to the back of the computer is VERY odd. I am not sure what to make of a lot of what is shown.

One one hand I feel like it is some type of easter egg he was hiding as part of some secret type game. Maybe in the secrecy style of the freemasons that he was reading about. I actually used to do the same thing when I was a kid..I would make a list of my favorite things and hide them in my house in order to find them much later and see if everything stayed the same or changed. Granted, I was a young kid and he was a grown adult, but it remind me of that.

On the other hand...the note does seem to be the thoughts of someone who is not all there.

From what they show of the actual note there are many weird things.

They show a shot of the many many people that he lists...and at the top it reads "...time and talent to this venture. Along with myself, these players should be made 5 years younger by the council..." Then after the names, at the bottom it reads "Porter Stansbury [if he didn't do it himself]"

There is also what appears to be the following:

"I'd also like to single out Keith Richards. You had a good run buddy. But What's done is done. The game is up. (something unreadable). It's time for some shut eye."

There are also weird phrases like that appear to read "Lastly, I expect..." and "...given the height of (some measurement)" and something that looks like "I suspect..." or "I expect..."

There is also a portion that is blurred out...i wonder what they didn't want to reveal?

unsolved88 · 07-01-2020, 02:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by drew790

I don't believe it was a suicide. The financial angle and the Russian stock thing are massive red flags. I was disappointed they only started focusing on Porter Stansberry in the last 17 minutes of the whole hour. I'm sure there was more there. Like in the note, they don't give it close up attention, but if you pause it the note literally says "Porter Stansberry (if he didn’t do it himself)”

Since Stansberry declined the show's invitation to be interviewed, I wonder if they couldn't really bring up the letter's accusations against him for legal reasons.

After reading the brief synopsis on Rey's case, I went into the segment thinking it was going to be another one of those murder vs. suicide cases from the old UM where the family simply couldn't or wouldn't accept that their relative had taken their life and were merely grasping at straws. This was definitely not the case here. Thanks to this new one-case format, we're given ample information about all the circumstances regarding Rey's death.
Actual documents are shown up close and nothing appears to be left out to push a narrative.

This was a murder. The note was some type of code, not a suicide letter. Although it seemed rambling and disjointed, there was still somewhat of a coherent flow to it. It didn't really read as the ramblings of someone with a severe mental illness who had lost control of their faculties.

TripleG · 07-01-2020, 02:42 PM

Its a weird case. I am not going to definitively say its a suicide or a murder or an accident.

What is evident though is there is a HUGE chunk of information missing, and that gap prevents any kind of definitive finding.

And yes, it is highly suspicious that the friend hushed up. Very odd indeed. I understand 5th amendment rights, but by hushing up, he only brought more attention to himself rather than cooperating.

drew790 · 07-01-2020, 02:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ghosthouse

1. I am inclined to believe this was a suicide.

There is little evidence at all - but certainly none to indicate he was thrown or pushed off the building. If it's hard to understand how he could have jumped off the building and landed where he did...then it is just as hard to understand how someone throwing or pushing him off could accomplish it.

The idea that someone would devise a plan to get him up there and then throw him off...in the face of so many buildings and windows seems unlikely to me.

If anything I think the nature of the building adds to it being a convenient place for a murder. It's near the workplace, it still has a number of communal public spaces that would work as a setting for any number of clandestine meetings. Since they're talking about there being bad trade deals and Russian characters and the like it would be within the realm of possibility that they met at one of the bars, or maybe a private or corporate owned apartment in the facility and things went bad.

From Wiki:
"The Belvedere was converted to condominiums in 1991, although the building's historic, distinctive grand interior spaces of the ballrooms, restaurants (such as the "John Eager Howard Room" with its large grand murals of pastoral Baltimore scenery, and the "Owl Bar"), and lounges (including the modernistic night club/bistro, "The 13th Floor" and observation level, along with a basement-level shopping arcade) were cleaned, restored and enhanced, remaining open to the general passing public."

Re: the distance. I'm no expert here, but wouldn't wind be a factor when that high up and in free fall? and any movements he may have made that might have helped propel him forward? The other thing is they assume he jumped/was thrown/whatever off the center of the building's top roof which is where that 45 feet measurement comes in, or the ledges. But they never seemed to address him going off the top roof on one of the wings of the building which looks like it would have been a lot less. And if this was just a suicide, why go to the effort of jumping into the most secluded part of the building rather than onto the more obvious main street on the other 2 sides of the place?

ghosthouse · 07-01-2020, 04:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BDR

If he got a phone call and then left why didn't they track the call to see who it was?

They covered that -- they said it had something to do with the building's switchboard...they knew it came from there but they couldn't tell which extension.

alistaircranium · 07-01-2020, 05:04 PM

Why go to a random building to commit suicide? How would he even know how to gain access to the roof?

This is out there, but could he have fallen from a helicopter?

atomicfizz · 07-01-2020, 05:52 PM

I thought the same thing about the wings on the building, that you have circled up there. I'm no good at physics or anything but I also wondered if he had jumped from there, not necessarily realizing the ledge was there could he have "swan dived" from the top and hit the ledge with his shins accounting for the injuries that they could not explain?

I went through it still convinced it was suicide, but I'll have to watch the second half again, more closely. I know they talked a lot about it being odd that no one noticed anything but if he had been murdered, or forced off, or a scene staged with all those windows no one would have noticed? I can imagine no one noticing someone simply jumping more than not noticing somewhat of a scene involving more than one person.

The glasses, shoes and phone don't bother me much. The glasses least of all because they are light. Also the size of the hole doesn't bother me. I don't think we get a great perspective on how big or small it was, it reminds me of looking at pictures of the pentagon after 9/11 and not believing a plane went through those holes, but it did. From the note it sounds like he could have had some mental illness that he was able to keep hidden from his wife and family.

07-01-2020, 09:27 AM	#1
Todd Mueller Member Senior Member Join Date: Feb 11, 2005 Posts: 1,626	What happened to Rey Rivera? (Netflix UM) If you haven't watched the first episode of UM on Netflix, go watch it now. Wow... There's a lot to unpack here. As someone said on another thread, this sounded like a pretty straightforward case at the beginning of the episode but it got really weird. Here are the main three things that bother me: 1) Where did he "fall" from? I say that because I'm not convinced he did. I highly doubt it was from the roof of the Belvedere. 2) What does Porter Stansberry have to hide? Obviously, he knows a lot that he isn't saying. Just a brief Google search on this guy shows you he is a snake oil salesman and possible a complete crackpot. He's already been fined over a million dollars by the SEC for securities fraud. 3) The note... What's up with the note behind the computer? (That totally took me back to the $2 bill found in the underwear of Charles Morgan.) So Rey left in a hurry after getting a call from the office of his employer, which is run by Porter Stansberry. That was the catalyst for him taking off so quickly, yet no one at the company seems to know a thing and they put out a gag order on talking to the police very quickly. Uh-huh... The note to me is the biggest "WTH?" moment of this story. It was full sized paper shrunken down, folded, wrapped in plastic, and taped to the back of the computer. No way in hell that was a suicide note. You want a suicide note to be found... This was code for something (again, just like Charles Morgan). The problem is that it only seems to make sense to Rey, and didn't give any specific clues on what it was really about. So it must either be a memory jogger for him or passwords to a file, website, etc. that used a code that would help him unlock what he needed.The fact that it was folded up, wrapped in plastic, and taped tells us this wasn't something he referred to often, if ever. This was an insurance of some kind. Just super weird. The other thing that bugs me is the hole in the roof. It is not very big, which says he was either coming straight down, or the scene is staged. I'm obviously not an expert on this, but you have to imagine if he was thrown off a building awake he would have been flailing around. If he was not conscious, I can't believe he would stay vertical to fall like that. I do think it's possible that if he fell vertically on purpose, he could go through the roof to make that narrow hole and that would explain why his shins were destroyed. But that is really hard to imagine. The suicide angle is funny because we have seen other cases of verified suicide where the person left no clue or wasn't acting funny. No offense to Rey's brother, who is obviously torn up by this, but he said that Rey showed no signs of being depressed or suicidal. That doesn't need to be there, but also, he was obviously stressed about something the last week or two of his life. His brother probably didn't see that but Rey's wife sure did. He really seemed to love his wife, so if he did kill himself, I can't believe he wouldn't leave her a note of some kind. I'm 99% sure this was not a straight up suicide. What a fascinating case. I'm glad they chose this one to be the first of the new UM on Netflix.

07-01-2020, 01:58 PM	#8
Guardian Member Forum Regular Join Date: May 19, 2010 Location: WA Posts: 522	I’m gonna have to give it another watch. I stayed up extra late to watch the first episode, so even while enjoying that, my mind isn’t the best while tired. But that being said, my inkling to start with was that this is just a suicide. But as the story unfolded, things got weird and I don’t think suicide is a possibility any longer in this case. The note almost has to be a code of some sort. Or at the least it has some specific meaning other than either a suicide note or just Rey recording his thoughts. Nobody talks (or writes) like that in person or in just a note to keep around the house. I don’t know much about Free Masons, but my knee jerk reaction is that Rey left this as code of some kind. I think the Free Mason quotes might indicate where to begin finding the key to unlock this. Perhaps where the quote coming from (was it a poem or book? - sorry, I was getting sleepy while watching) might begin to unlock this. Such as the Declaration of Independence was supposedly the key to unlock the Beale treasure code. Just my initial thoughts there. About the scene itself, I don’t know. I could see it being staged, or not. The phone and glasses aren’t necessarily indicating staged scene to me. If Rey jumped, I could see his impact into the roof causing enough impact to both knock the glasses and phone from his pockets and offset the impact on those items themselves enough that they landed where they did, apparently undamaged (hopefully I’m making sense there). Also, I would think anyone with half a brain staging the scene would take the opportunity to actually break those items before leaving them where they were if they were trying to make it look like suicide. Also, the other thing about the scene is the access. Rey or his killer(s) would have had to get access somehow to be found where he was. If suicide, how did Rey gain access? If someone staged the scene, why not just throw him off a bridge or something? Or a building that could more conceivably be accessed? Could the idea have been to try and frame someone? In any case, the building has more significance to me in this case than just being either the tool used. There are a lot of things to delve into on this case, but those things stuck out to me more than anything honestly.
	__________________ For every mystery there is someone, somewhere, who knows what happened. Perhaps... it's you...

07-01-2020, 09:51 AM	#2
infinityluxe Member Frequent Poster Join Date: Jan 31, 2020 Posts: 274	I just come here to say Rey is fine as hell! What a beautiful man he is/was.

07-01-2020, 10:09 AM	#3
sdb4884 UM Meme Guy Senior Member Join Date: Sep 01, 2008 Location: Perth, Western Australia Posts: 1,234	So pleased with the first two cases in the storytelling. Anyway to your point; the friend not being interviewed was odd.

07-01-2020, 11:59 AM	#5
drew790 Member Forum Regular Join Date: Jul 17, 2017 Posts: 847	I loved it. Robert Stack's image being in the opening gave me the feels. If I had to say anything as a negative, having only watched the one episode, the background music could stand to be creepier. If we get a Season 2 a new composer's needed. On to Rey. I don't believe it was a suicide. The financial angle and the Russian stock thing are massive red flags. I was disappointed they only started focusing on Porter Stansberry in the last 17 minutes of the whole hour. I'm sure there was more there. Like in the note, they don't give it close up attention, but if you pause it the note literally says "Porter Stansberry (if he didn’t do it himself)” I feel a piece of the puzzle is missing with regard to the house guest. Everyone's coming in but she left? I'm not saying she's involved but I'm a bit confused by that whole scenario. It came off like they were "meh" to the whole missing person unfolding around them. Is it feasible though that something went on between those two that led to emotional turmoil and the call from Stansberry is a red herring? Yes. But this is also probably just an issue with the narrative in post production. I tend to also wonder if the note was code. Who tapes their favorite movies to the back of a monitor like that? And with that weird line about Stansberry mentioned above in it?

07-01-2020, 01:47 PM	#6
BDR Member Occasional Poster Join Date: Jan 23, 2017 Posts: 35	If he got a phone call and then left why didn't they track the call to see who it was?

07-01-2020, 02:01 PM	#9
ghosthouse Member Frequent Poster Join Date: Dec 03, 2019 Location: Amish Country Posts: 298	I just finished this episode. The format has changed to more of a 48 Hours or Dateline but I just really enjoyed it and found it to be a really compelling mystery. Robert Stack is gone and the weekly episodic style of the OG with the call us if you can help, check back next week for updates and more is gone. You really can't go back to it. Some people have trouble slapping the UM name on an episode of 48 Hours...and i can understand that...but at least the show has some kind of present day extension. Either way, i think you'll find that this ep is a good mystery worth checking out. 1. I am inclined to believe this was a suicide. There is little evidence at all - but certainly none to indicate he was thrown or pushed off the building. If it's hard to understand how he could have jumped off the building and landed where he did...then it is just as hard to understand how someone throwing or pushing him off could accomplish it. The idea that someone would devise a plan to get him up there and then throw him off...in the face of so many buildings and windows seems unlikely to me. 2. I do think something is obviously up with his friend and employer. The call from them was the impetus for him leaving and eventually to his death. Now, one might say that they lawyered up because they were complicit in his death...but it's also plausible that they realized he was privy to damaging information about the company (it certainly sounds like they were up to some shady s*it) and they were hedging their bets in case the damaging information either led to him killing himself -- or would come out as a result of the investigation to his death. 3. The note taped to the back of the computer is VERY odd. I am not sure what to make of a lot of what is shown. One one hand I feel like it is some type of easter egg he was hiding as part of some secret type game. Maybe in the secrecy style of the freemasons that he was reading about. I actually used to do the same thing when I was a kid..I would make a list of my favorite things and hide them in my house in order to find them much later and see if everything stayed the same or changed. Granted, I was a young kid and he was a grown adult, but it remind me of that. On the other hand...the note does seem to be the thoughts of someone who is not all there. From what they show of the actual note there are many weird things. They show a shot of the many many people that he lists...and at the top it reads "...time and talent to this venture. Along with myself, these players should be made 5 years younger by the council..." Then after the names, at the bottom it reads "Porter Stansbury [if he didn't do it himself]" There is also what appears to be the following: "I'd also like to single out Keith Richards. You had a good run buddy. But What's done is done. The game is up. (something unreadable). It's time for some shut eye." There are also weird phrases like that appear to read "Lastly, I expect..." and "...given the height of (some measurement)" and something that looks like "I suspect..." or "I expect..." There is also a portion that is blurred out...i wonder what they didn't want to reveal?

07-01-2020, 02:42 PM	#11
TripleG Member Occasional Poster Join Date: Apr 19, 2011 Location: East Coast Posts: 98	Its a weird case. I am not going to definitively say its a suicide or a murder or an accident. What is evident though is there is a HUGE chunk of information missing, and that gap prevents any kind of definitive finding. And yes, it is highly suspicious that the friend hushed up. Very odd indeed. I understand 5th amendment rights, but by hushing up, he only brought more attention to himself rather than cooperating.

07-01-2020, 05:04 PM	#14
alistaircranium Banned Banned!! Forum Regular Join Date: Aug 10, 2015 Posts: 503	Why go to a random building to commit suicide? How would he even know how to gain access to the roof? This is out there, but could he have fallen from a helicopter?

07-01-2020, 05:52 PM	#15
atomicfizz Member Frequent Poster Join Date: Jun 07, 2008 Location: Minneapolis Posts: 310	I thought the same thing about the wings on the building, that you have circled up there. I'm no good at physics or anything but I also wondered if he had jumped from there, not necessarily realizing the ledge was there could he have "swan dived" from the top and hit the ledge with his shins accounting for the injuries that they could not explain? I went through it still convinced it was suicide, but I'll have to watch the second half again, more closely. I know they talked a lot about it being odd that no one noticed anything but if he had been murdered, or forced off, or a scene staged with all those windows no one would have noticed? I can imagine no one noticing someone simply jumping more than not noticing somewhat of a scene involving more than one person. The glasses, shoes and phone don't bother me much. The glasses least of all because they are light. Also the size of the hole doesn't bother me. I don't think we get a great perspective on how big or small it was, it reminds me of looking at pictures of the pentagon after 9/11 and not believing a plane went through those holes, but it did. From the note it sounds like he could have had some mental illness that he was able to keep hidden from his wife and family.